440 Pro vs 400 Monoblocks

[Cadguy]

Greetings from Canada. I'm a new member here and I am looking at  a 440 Pro for sale at $10,990 Canadian ($8750 usd) vs 400 monoblocks  for $8500 Canadian ($6750 usd). Which one has better sound quality? I prefer a warmer full bodied sound with a very wide and tall soundstage. Which of these is the best deal? (high-end audio is more expensive in Canada than in the USA). Or should I consider a Hegel H590 or a Bel Canto e1x ? Those of you who have moved on from Devialet what were your reasons for doing so and what did you get? Thank you for any input.

[pvanosta]

You'll get varied answers to that question. It depends also on how you intend to use the amps. The 440pro has updated electronics and better streaming capabilities (including Roon Ready if that matters to you - it did to me).
ALSO: 8750 USD for a 440 pro is an excellent deal (assuming it has the Core Infinity update as well). In Europe you won't find them at that price point (I paid 8500 Euro or 9950 USD and I shopped around).
I was looking for an amp that intersected on the following parameters:
- it had to be a top-shelf all-in-one (pre, power, phono, dac, streamer)
- it had to reproduce digital at least up to DSD64
- it had to be Roon Ready (i am a lifetime subscriber)
- I had to be able to afford it

I tried the Hegel, after hearing it at an audio show (remember when we could attend those?) and based on the promise that Roon Ready status was coming in a couple of months.
After 9 months of waiting, I sold the Hegel and found a Devialet 220 (expert pro, Core Infinity). Never looked back after that. Patiently waited until a deal for a second 220 came around and bought that as well.

In the meantime, the newer firmware was released, which fixed a bunch of stability issues around Roon streaming. Happy as can be.

If your budget stretches to the 440, I would not buy the 400. Also: look on the Devialet website for the upgrade cost of a 400 to a 440 (4000 euro). The price differential between the used 440 and used 400 should reflect that more or less. 
If you don't need streaming etc., and budget is a major consideration, you coud consider the 400. For me there is no comparison. YMMV

[mdconnelly]

You would be happy with the 400, but if you ever then get a chance to listen to a 440 Pro I’m betting you’d want to upgrade. The 440 at that price is a steal. Plus there is probably a chance that the 440 Pro is still under warranty which, I believe, is transferable.

[Damon]

Hi @Cadguy and welcome,

Another Canadian here. I'd offer a couple of ideas to help you. The first is to look for posts by a former DC member, @Wdw. He is now on a Pass system but I did hear his 440 Pro / Magico set up a few years ago, and it was stunning. He and I upgraded from the Expert to the ProCI series at the same time, and posted our thoughts about the sound in some threads with titles like, 'Pro CI upgrade impressions' or things like that. Fall 2016 into early 2017.

Like most here, I would also encourage you to go the Pro CI route, but that is because I personally prefer the Pro CI sound. Also the other features the upgrade brings are valuable. To me. I went from a 120 Expert to a 220 Pro, then to the Pro CI (just because the early updates occurred in two steps)

However two things about the SQ difference, and then I'll stop. I felt the Expert series (400 Exp in your case) tended, in comparison with the ProCI, so present things in a bigger 'ball' of sound, with the midrange a bit forward, spatially. The Pro / Pro CI pulled the sounds apart, so the soundstage was much bigger, with the elements more distinct and separate. But some felt it was less ... cohesive? Not me, but some said so. The ProCI also improved on tone and detail and bass clarity. Stunning, really.

A couple of other things about the sound. The Devialet will give you a wide and tall soundstage but it is affected by the quality of cables and the source. I just experienced that with recent changes to my system. So, don't skimp on the front end.

Secondly, the Devialet is not 'warm' like a tube amp, so depending on where you sit on that fence, be open to the way Devialet reproduces music without the sonic equivalent of a cosy fireside. I say that after having had tube systems for years, then Naim.

Finally, and this is just what my ears say, is that Hegel sounds more 'industrial' to me than the Devialet. I've had probably 5 hours of attentive listening to Hegel, and I just couldn't take one home. Many regard them as fine amplifiers, and I'm certain they are, but they do not give the finesse or.... well, lets call it 'emotion' for lack of a legitimate term.

Anyhow, I've gone on too long again. I should learn to answer posts with a few emoticons and be done in one line.

Cheers.

[Cadguy]

Thanks for all the helpful info and insight! Damon that's an interesting observation about the difference between musical cohesiveness and separation and definition and I suppose either presentation could be advantageous on different types of music. But certainly tone,  texture and soundstage are paramount for me. Now I'm not sure if the 440 Pro that's for sale has CI, I'll contact the seller tomorrow. I wonder where the largest sonic improvement occurs: 400 monos to 440 PRO or from 440 PRO to 440 PRO CI?

[Damon]

Just my brief thoughts on the Expert to ProCI changes. @Wdw and I both though the improvements with the upgrade were substantial and much more than we anticipated. We both wrote about it here, and some my longest and most tiresomely verbose posts are in those old threads. If you read them late at night, stay well away from anything with sharp corners that would hurt when you collapse in a stupor.

Not to jinx the deal, but that price for the 440 Pro is very good. Nothing I've ever heard would come even close. IMHO and IMLE (in my limited experience).

Admittedly I'm a fan of Devialet but I'm usually pretty quiet about it - we all have our own legitimate sonic preferences. I love my system for its compactness, sound quality and ease of use, but I'd sell everyone else in the system before I changed the amplifier.

What speakers are you going to use? SAM compatible? In my system, with the Dali's, SAM is really nice; as it adds woofer control, it makes the midrange sounds better as well.

[thumb5]

Hello @Cadguy

To pick up one of your specific questions:

...
I wonder where the largest sonic improvement occurs: 400 monos to 440 PRO or from 440 PRO to 440 PRO CI?

I had a 440 Pro for about a year and a half before the Core Infinity upgrade was available, and to my ears at least, the sonic improvement from the 440 came with the "Pro" electronics rather than the Core Infinity board. This makes some sense because the core ADH section of the amplifier was upgraded with the Pro models, whereas the addition of the CI board is mainly to support new streaming options (as I understand it).

Along with others who've posted here, my advice would be to go for the 440 Pro if it's within your budget, even if it turns out not to have the CI board. As we speak I think it would still be possible to have the CI board fitted after your purchase if you felt you needed it.

The only note of caution I'd add is that since you said you prefer a warmer, full-bodied sound, I'd recommend listening to either the 400 or 440 Pro before you buy, with your speakers if possible, to be sure that they suit you. In general the Expert series amps tend to be "accurate" rather than "euphonic". That's not to say that they sound cold, but they don't sugar-coat bad source material.

[no32]

I would go with 400 and older FW


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[Cadguy]

@Damon I'm not a tube lover, my current amp is a Moon W5 that I've had for over 15 years, with on older Moon Pre amp and my speakers are B&W 803 Diamonds about 9 years old. 
@thumb5 I tried the Benchmark DAC3 preamp with my Moon W5 and the sound was too cold and clinical for me. Are the Experts in the same vein?
@no32 What are the advantages of the 400 and older? 
I should add that I still listen to vinyl using a moving magnet cartridge so the reported noise issue isn't a concern but and I've read on these forums that the original Premiere had the best quality phono stage.

[no32]

Moving magnet on the 400 isn’t bad at all.

as for older FW versions, I find the 7.1.3 to be the most musical and easy listening. I tried most versions many times and always end up with the 7.
I stoped trying switching FW about a year ago.

I find the pre CI sounds better and it’s cheaper...


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