A Confused streaming system - Mutec / SOtM Ultra

[Confused]

As a final point, we can have a discussion about the good and bad in the text from Mr Norwitz, but I think @thumb5 has it right when he says I need a brain re-boot.

Will you be following the appropriate reboot procedure?

1) powering down and waiting for the inner voices to dissipate
2) disconnecting from the audio world for a period
3) perhaps returning back to factory settings, I.e the real world
4) changing your configuration, I.e listening position
5) perhaps even updating your firmware, careful with those chips ?

No, 10 minutes of hard-core techno, that should do it.

[amabrok]

@Confused Wow what a thread and what a read!

i learned a lot all while enjoying the flow of the thread.

I know the mood is now to "reset" and "rest" but i can't hold myself from asking when do you plan to A/B test direct USB vs Mutec AES?

Very keen to know how will both options compare 

thanks

[Confused]

a@Confused Wow what a thread and what a read!

i learned a lot all while enjoying the flow of the thread.

I know the mood is now to "reset" and "rest" but i can't hold myself from asking when do you plan to A/B test direct USB vs Mutec AES?

Very keen to know how will both options compare 

thanks

Thanks @amabrok I am pleased you have enjoyed the read, I often wonder how many people enjoy reading this kind of stuff, and how many read it and just think "what an idiot".  I guess quite a few people do both!

Regarding running the SOtM kit via USB, this is probably something I would have tried already, but I was mindful of a compatibility issue between the new CI board and the sMS-200.  The good news is that I understand that the latest beta firmware (which I am running) has resolved this issue.  I am not quite sure when I will get the time to do a proper USB versus AES/EBU test, but it should be in the next couple of weeks.

[Confused]

As a general update, In earlier posts I have commented on the treble with the SOtM kit being more prominent than the mR, and maybe a little harsh.  I now think this is incorrect.  I have not had anywhere near as much time with my system as I would have liked recently, a simple case of work getting in the way of the rest of my life, but this weekend I did have a few hours for a bit of listening.

What I am finding now is that with decently recorded material, the high frequency performance of the sMS-200Ultra + tXUSButlra is excellent, quite superb.  I still think treble sounds more prominent than with the mR, and here is the problem.  A lot of the music I listen to is by it's very nature the kind of stuff where recording quality is not always the best.  Sometimes the HF will sound a bit edgy and harsh in recordings of this type, but I can simply ignore this, it is what it is.  With the SOtM kit though, this issue becomes harder to ignore, perhaps creating some kind of psychoacoustic effect where the whole is improved significantly (versus mR), but this causes the bad in the recording itself to spring to the fore.  It is a curious thing, but it like the SOtM kit is making the good in recordings better, but anything bad in the HF is made massively more noticeable.   Obviously more transparent kit will make the bad in recordings easier to discern, this is logical, but the effect here is much more than that I think.  As an analogy, think of going from a basic mass produced car to a luxury model that has all the kit, super smooth ride, nice V12 engine etc.  This will be great right?  Lets say the luxury car has an annoying buzzing noise coming from under the dash, your mind is taken away from all the good stuff about that car, and you are left thinking "what is that noise, it's driving me mad!"  Without sorting the little niggles out, it becomes impossible to enjoy the rest, no matter how good the rest is.

In the case of the SOtM kit, perhaps a classic case of psychoacoustic effects requiring 200 hours for my brain to adjust.  Although I do have a few cunning plans to investigate this one further though.

To be continued!

[octaviars]

In the case of the SOtM kit, perhaps a classic case of psychoacoustic effects requiring 200 hours for my brain to adjust.  Although I do have a few cunning plans to investigate this one further though.

@Confused do you have any specific album where you feel the sound is more edgy and harsh? I cant say that in my system with TAD electronics and TAD speakers I have noticed this problem runing sMS-200ultra and tX-USBultra (2x Paul Hynes SR4 powering them with 9Vdc).

[Confused]

In the case of the SOtM kit, perhaps a classic case of psychoacoustic effects requiring 200 hours for my brain to adjust.  Although I do have a few cunning plans to investigate this one further though.

@Confused do you have any specific album where you feel the sound is more edgy and harsh? I cant say that in my system with TAD electronics and TAD speakers I have noticed this problem runing sMS-200ultra and tX-USBultra (2x Paul Hynes SR4 powering them with 9Vdc).

This is probably because you never listen to the rubbish that I listen to!

Regarding specific examples, I can think of some albums that sound particularly bad, but they are ones that sounded bad anyway.  A good specific example would be The Cures "Three Imaginary Boys", where only now some slight edginess is apparent, so this sits on the border of what was ok before but just troubling now.  It is almost certainly little more than a poor production accurately reproduced though.

Hopefully I will get some decent listening time over the coming weekend, and if I stumble across any other good examples I will advise.

[yabaVR]

As a general update, In earlier posts I have commented on the treble with the SOtM kit being more prominent than the mR, and maybe a little harsh.  I now think this is incorrect.  I have not had anywhere near as much time with my system as I would have liked recently, a simple case of work getting in the way of the rest of my life, but this weekend I did have a few hours for a bit of listening.

What I am finding now is that with decently recorded material, the high frequency performance of the sMS-200Ultra + tXUSButlra is excellent, quite superb.  I still think treble sounds more prominent than with the mR, and here is the problem.  A lot of the music I listen to is by it's very nature the kind of stuff where recording quality is not always the best.  Sometimes the HF will sound a bit edgy and harsh in recordings of this type, but I can simply ignore this, it is what it is.  With the SOtM kit though, this issue becomes harder to ignore, perhaps creating some kind of psychoacoustic effect where the whole is improved significantly (versus mR), but this causes the bad in the recording itself to spring to the fore.  It is a curious thing, but it like the SOtM kit is making the good in recordings better, but anything bad in the HF is made massively more noticeable.   Obviously more transparent kit will make the bad in recordings easier to discern, this is logical, but the effect here is much more than that I think.  As an analogy, think of going from a basic mass produced car to a luxury model that has all the kit, super smooth ride, nice V12 engine etc.  This will be great right?  Lets say the luxury car has an annoying buzzing noise coming from under the dash, your mind is taken away from all the good stuff about that car, and you are left thinking "what is that noise, it's driving me mad!"  Without sorting the little niggles out, it becomes impossible to enjoy the rest, no matter how good the rest is.

In the case of the SOtM kit, perhaps a classic case of psychoacoustic effects requiring 200 hours for my brain to adjust.  Although I do have a few cunning plans to investigate this one further though.

To be continued!

@Confused 
Even if I repeat myself. Try to pull at least some of the SMPS in your listening room. You don't have to pull all to get the idea of what I mean by sound improvement when you do this. I know that a Devialet itself has a SMPS inside but that's not the point. I'm quiet sure that pulling some SMPS will ease your ears with critical music and even more improve sound with well recorded music.

gui

[amabrok]

Thanks @amabrok I am pleased you have enjoyed the read, I often wonder how many people enjoy reading this kind of stuff, and how many read it and just think "what an idiot".  I guess quite a few people do both!

Regarding running the SOtM kit via USB, this is probably something I would have tried already, but I was mindful of a compatibility issue between the new CI board and the sMS-200.  The good news is that I understand that the latest beta firmware (which I am running) has resolved this issue.  I am not quite sure when I will get the time to do a proper USB versus AES/EBU test, but it should be in the next couple of weeks.

once again thanks @Confused and to all members who contribute to this thread!

I suppose the issue you refer to is only on Expert Pros with CI and as such it should not be of a concern to my D400 Expert?

[Confused]

@amabrok - Correct, the USB issue I was referring to relates to CI board equipped Pro's only, not a concern for those with Expert amps.  In fact, it is not really a problem for the Pro now as the latest beta firmware solves the issue.

@yabaVR as I mentioned in post #62, I will try the SMPS test.  I said I will do it, I am a man of my word, worry not.  In fact, I have a whole list of things I plan to try, the only problem is that I have very little time at home with my system to try these things, so it will take a while.  One point to note, it is a very long lists and every time you ask me to do this test, I do move it one slot down on my list!  (only joking)

On this subject, it only dawned on me recently that my entire system is SMPS powered! Oh the horror.  Power is as follows:

Computer - SMPS
Router - SMPS
Modified switch - UptoneAudio LPS-1, which itself is powered by SMPS "energiser"
SOtM kit - sPS-500 - which is a SMPS unit, albeit a very trick one.
Mutec MC3+USB - SMPS
Devialet Expert Pro - SMPS x 2

As a general note, I really do have a whole list of things to try, it is planned like a military operation.

This weekend I will commence step 1.  Code name "operation listen to lots of music."  This involves listening to as much music as possible and not even thinking about messing with the kit.  If I happen to stumble across a track that does not sound quite right with respect to the HF issue I mentioned, I will simply stick it into a dedicated playlist.  In time, I should have a playlist which will feature a large range music which sufferers from the subject issue.  This can then be used as a reference for the many things I plan to experiment with.  I am rather looking forward to step 1, as it involves being lazy for long periods of time and listening to any music I fancy.

As a point to note, at one time I had bass issues, in part SAM related but they remained problematic tracks even after the SAM issues were resolved.  During this time I compiled a playlist of tracks which were problematic with respect to bass reproduction.  These tracks play just fine these days, SAM on or off.

[Greg]

On this subject, it only dawned on me recently that my entire system is SMPS powered! Oh the horror.  Power is as follows:

Computer - SMPS
Router - SMPS
Modified switch - UptoneAudio LPS-1, which itself is powered by SMPS "energiser"
SOtM kit - sPS-500 - which is a SMPS unit, albeit a very trick one.
Mutec MC3+USB - SMPS
Devialet Expert Pro - SMPS x 2

Woh! Before you do anything else, deal with all the noise your SMPS’s are returning to your mains, impacting on any audio devise you have on the same ring/circuit. In fact, I would suggest even with a dedicated spur or properly defined, radial circuit this needs absolutely to be your priority over anything else.

Firstly, no SMPS should be directly connected to any mains wall socket and actually, for the very best sound, that applies to every SMPS unit you have in your house, possibly even your neirbours house although you will have little control over that.

All SMPS devises need to be plugged into a mains extension block with an appropriate mains feed length of cable. This can be very short when circumstances dictate. Extention block offerings include multiple 13amp fused plug outlets. 2,4,6,8,10 and more options are available. Plug your SMPS devises only into such an extension.

You absolutely need to deal with the noise the SMPS devises inject into your mains and there is a very affective, cheap and easy to do solution.

Buy from eBay or Amazon a set of Ferrite Core cable clamps, just like you find often already incorporated into some of your computer leads etc. Cheap as chips. Clip them to the mains cable close to the multiple plug block. This will seriously suppress RFI and other noisy elements being returned to your mains. Multi packs allow multiple placement application. Remember, mains are AC current. It is multi-directional, however, always think in terms of the mains return. Always clip your clamps between the SMPS devises and the mains socket.

To do a proper job, apply this practice to the whole of your accommodation. You will be surprised how many SMPS devises you are using.

Localised SMPS devises are really bad news for any quality sound system. Ignore them at your peril. In terms of power to your specific audio devises, the preference is to go linear. They quietly work the best and for certain, do not believe the bollocks some write about the benefits of batteries. Be sure, LPSU’s are far superior to any noisey modern battery option.

I don’t want to appear conceited but have to say I would never consider a listening test before doing what I have advocated above.

Of course, YMMV, but I doubt it.