Audio Science Review of Expert 200.

[petrik]

Good news is that Devialet has promised to fix the broken device. Maybe we will see an another set of measurements after it has been fixed?
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum...ost-368251

More alarming is the fact that several different reviews are now indicating the Expert limiting output power on high frequencies. This is against regulations in US according to "amirm".
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum...ost-368008

I have created a support ticket if we could get an official answer to these questions and points.

A quote from Jeff Fritz in his review of the Devialet 120 for Soundstage Ultra:

The bottom line: The Devialet 120 -- with its paltry 120Wpc into 6 ohms and its price of $6495 -- was a [i]great[/i] match for the Magico Q7s, whose cost matches their size: $185,000/pair.

And you're creating a ticket to find out whether there's something wrong with your amp because some geezer doesn't understand how to measure an amp so advanced, not even John Atkinson can measure it properly? What are you going to do if Devialet get back to you and tell you that indeed, your amp only delivers 5 to 8 Watt per channel? Ask for your money back?

Let's see. It would be great to find out the truth. Is the amplifier really so complicated to measure that even professional reviewers cannot measure it properly? Or could there be a bug in the Expert that Devialet could fix and improve its performance for all of us?

[PeppaPig]

Good news is that Devialet has promised to fix the broken device. Maybe we will see an another set of measurements after it has been fixed?
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum...ost-368251

More alarming is the fact that several different reviews are now indicating the Expert limiting output power on high frequencies. This is against regulations in US according to "amirm".
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum...ost-368008

I have created a support ticket if we could get an official answer to these questions and points.

Pls share the info from devialet’s reply. Thanks!

[PeppaPig]

Yep, I question his intention reviewing a discontinued model. He is looking for Devialet to give him some money so he can publish positive review with the "repaired" unit.

Its apparently a set up. Why he didn't test a Expert PRO brand new unit from Devialet?

WHAT is the value for him to test a discontinue unit? for second hand buyer ?? lol, don't try to joke mate. This guy is a rubbish, I know his game. He won't get a $1 from Devialet.

I guess by that logic, we should shut down all of the subforums on devialetchat that discuss discontinued models?
What's the value in anyone discussing them?

You think user discuss a product and reviewer reviewing an 5 years old product is same? I think your logic is wrong.

[Pim]

And you're creating a ticket to find out whether there's something wrong with your amp because some geezer doesn't understand how to measure an amp so advanced, not even John Atkinson can measure it properly? What are you going to do if Devialet get back to you and tell you that indeed, your amp only delivers 5 to 8 Watt per channel? Ask for your money back?


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If I'd bought an amp that could only deliver a tiny fraction of its claimed output, for sure I'd want my money back - even if I loved the sound. I would want to take my money back and run as far away as I could from a company that lied to me like that.

Isn't it clear though that the Experts deliver great powerful bass and clear highs? That requires power. So somehow it's being delivered. Just because it can't be measured (Anyone want to discuss routers?  ) doesn't mean it's not delivered. 

What I'm trying to convey here is that there's more than one way to skin a cat. Devialet is unique in the way it does that. You own an amp that is so far ahead of the competition that ten years after it came on the market, nobody has even tried to do what Devialet has done. That alone should make you a proud owner. Does a measurement from someone who doesn't understand how the amp works really weigh that much on your decision?

[whatmore]

Isn't it clear though that the Experts deliver great powerful bass and clear highs? That requires power. So somehow it's being delivered. Just because it can't be measured (Anyone want to discuss routers?  ) doesn't mean it's not delivered. 

Mate, that's just magical thinking. Devialet haven't discovered a new way of "somehow" delivering power in an way that can't be measured.
In any event they quote normal (non-magical) power specs that don't seem to be achieved when normal (non-magical) measurements are applied. This seems to be misleading.

What I'm trying to convey here is that there's more than one way to skin a cat. Devialet is unique in the way it does that. You own an amp that is so far ahead of the competition that ten years after it came on the market, nobody has even tried to do what Devialet has done. That alone should make you a proud owner. Does a measurement from someone who doesn't understand how the amp works really weigh that much on your decision?

Measurements are standard. Devialet quote standard measurement and distortion specs. If they said "we have come up with a new way of measuring and producing power with low distortion" then that would probably be ok.

So in a nutshell, what weighs on my decision is that the company seems to be fudging numbers.
Why does this dishonesty not weigh on your decision ? Why are you ok with that?

[whatmore]

You think user discuss a product and reviewer reviewing an 5 years old product is same? I think your logic is wrong.

Let's step through what you claim is happening :

Amir wants to make a lot of money...
Amir measures an outdated product
It measures badly and fails
He has done this deliberately so that Devialet are forced to send him a current model to measure
This model will measure well
Devialet will pay him lots of money for this

Have I missed anything in your logic?

[Pim]

Isn't it clear though that the Experts deliver great powerful bass and clear highs? That requires power. So somehow it's being delivered. Just because it can't be measured (Anyone want to discuss routers?  ) doesn't mean it's not delivered. 

Mate, that's just magical thinking. Devialet haven't discovered a new way of "somehow" delivering power in an way that can't be measured.
In any event they quote normal (non-magical) power specs that don't seem to be achieved when normal (non-magical) measurements are applied. This seems to be misleading.

What I'm trying to convey here is that there's more than one way to skin a cat. Devialet is unique in the way it does that. You own an amp that is so far ahead of the competition that ten years after it came on the market, nobody has even tried to do what Devialet has done. That alone should make you a proud owner. Does a measurement from someone who doesn't understand how the amp works really weigh that much on your decision?

Measurements are standard. Devialet quote standard measurement and distortion specs. If they said "we have come up with a new way of measuring and producing power with low distortion" then that would probably be ok.

So in a nutshell, what weighs on my decision is that the company seems to be fudging numbers.
Why does this dishonesty not weigh on your decision ? Why are you ok with that?

I’m ok with it because when I first heard a D240 driving Vivid Audio G3’s it sounded like it was in total control of the speakers. No measurement will undo that. Let’s say Devialet has found a way to make the drivers move with only 5 Watt but they think it’s easier to sell by telling us they’re driving them with 200 Watt instead. They still sound like 200 Watt amps but use a lot less power. What have I lost due to this lie? Power consumption. I’m perfectly fine with that. I’m more pissed off with my washing powder: it was advertised to work with cold water but to get my clothes clean I need to turn the washing machine to 60 degrees. Now THAT’s a lie I can live without.

[PeppaPig]

You think user discuss a product and reviewer reviewing an 5 years old product is same? I think your logic is wrong.

Let's step through what you claim is happening :

Amir wants to make a lot of money...
Amir measures an outdated product
It measures badly and fails
He has done this deliberately so that Devialet are forced to send him a current model to measure
This model will measure well
Devialet will pay him lots of money for this

Have I missed anything in your logic?

Yes, you do have difficult in understanding people's talking and creates gap in your brain between each thing people talk about. I can't help you further.

[whatmore]

Ohms law isn’t in question, so I’m sure Devialets power ratings are correct, but they never say for how long? It could be for milliseconds!? And if any of their marketing claims are exaggerated, this righty deserves to be exposed. Though I tend to agree with @whatmore, I’m sure it will all miraculously work out in the end.

So it's like the Peak Music Power of the bad old days

It's not just about power, their claimed distortion figures seem somewhat ambitious too.
Perhaps they've also found a magical way of reducing distortion that can't be measured either?

[David A]

Ohms law isn’t in question, so I’m sure Devialets power ratings are correct, but they never say for how long? It could be for milliseconds!? And if any of their marketing claims are exaggerated, this righty deserves to be exposed. Though I tend to agree with @whatmore, I’m sure it will all miraculously work out in the end.

So it's like the Peak Music Power of the bad old days 

It's not just about power, their claimed distortion figures seem somewhat ambitious too.
Perhaps they've also found a magical way of reducing distortion that can't be measured either?

No, not like "Peak Music Power".

The power rating measurement is made with a broad band signal, probably white noise which is equal level at all frequencies, because music is a broad band signal with content over a wide frequency range. So, assuming you're measuring power from 20 Hz to 20 kHz, you've got signal at an infinite number of frequencies (well, only 19,980 frequencies if you don't want signal at all of the fractions of a Hz between each Hz). The total output is measured and the output at each frequency in the range contributes a fraction of that total output. So, for a Devialet 200 you'd expect a measurement of around 200 W in total at 6 Ohms but the output at each frequency in the range is going to be less than that, significantly less than that given the number of frequencies in the range.

The measurement that ASR was jumping up and down about was a measurement of a sine wave test signal at 20 kHz and the amp started limiting output somewhere between 5 and 10 W. In real life, delivering music to your speakers, it would never be delivering 5-10 W of power at 20 kHz. The only sound in music at 20 kHz is overtones of much lower fundamental tones and the overtones are lower in level than the fundamentals. The highest fundamental produced by an instrument is around 7-8 kHz so 20 kHz is an overtone about one and a half octaves above the highest fundamental, and more octaves that that above lower frequency fundamentals. The bulk of the amp's power output goes into delivering fundamentals, it's never going to be delivering 5-10 W of power at 20 kHz when delivering music at it's rated power.

I don't know if the amp was malfunctioning or if it actually does limit output at the top of the 2Hz-20 kHz bandwidth but I wouldn't be worried if it did. That's not going to stop the amp from reaching rated output on music or a broad band test signal. Comparing broad band output to output at a single frequency pure sine wave signal at 20 kHz is comparing apples to oranges, they're simply not comparable signals and the amp does not have to be capable of delivering rated output for a sine wave signal at any frequency in order to meet its rated output spec with a broadband signal or with music.