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"Audiophile Grade" Ethernet Switches - The new generation
(14-Oct-2019, 15:34)daniel.avasilichioaei Wrote: A direct cable connection between streamer and DAC (with high quality cable) is not better than any router/switch (EtherRegen or not)?...
It is less expensive, for sure.

It could very well be. Honestly I still prefer the sound signature of the USB connection between my endpoint (Innuos Statement) and DAC as oppossed to Ethernet. It really comes down to your personal preference and what sounds best to you.
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(14-Oct-2019, 15:34)daniel.avasilichioaei Wrote: A direct cable connection between streamer and DAC (with high quality cable) is not better than any router/switch (EtherRegen or not)?...
It is less expensive, for sure.
It is better to improve the USB first, then later the switch because USB will deliver more benefits. 

USB is more than just a cable, can include regen device, external clock etc. It can easily become more expensive.
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(14-Oct-2019, 22:55)Snoopy8 Wrote:
(14-Oct-2019, 15:34)daniel.avasilichioaei Wrote: A direct cable connection between streamer and DAC (with high quality cable) is not better than any router/switch (EtherRegen or not)?...
It is less expensive, for sure.
It is better to improve the USB first, then later the switch because USB will deliver more benefits. 

USB is more than just a cable, can include regen device, external clock etc. It can easily become more expensive.

I don't agree that USB is superior, at least not for everyone.

I've read comments from various manufacturers, some of whom say that USB is better and some of whom say that ethernet is better. My own experience is with 2 devices which offer both USB and ethernet output and 1 which offers only USB output. Of the 2 which offer both USB and ethernet output, Antipodes claim USB is superior and Roon that ethernet is superior. My experience with an Antipodes DS and a Roon Nucleus+ is that I preferred ethernet with both. With an Auralic Aries Mini which offers only USB output I would prefer USB from the Aries Mini to USB from the Antipodes DS or the Nucleus+ but I still have a preference for ethernet from the Nucleus+. My feeling is that different manufacturers have their own views over which is better and try to optimise their products for that method. I prefer the sound quality I get with an ethernet connection but experience also tells me that if there is an audible difference then some people will prefer one connection and others will prefer the other. I don't think that one method will satisfy every Devialet user, especially when we're using a variety of different source devices which may or may not do equally well at implementing both methods and it's easy to lose the theoretical advantages of a given connection method by not implementing it optimally.

And since I use Roon, ethernet has an advantage for me that USB does not have. Roon can control volume via the Devialet's own volume control with an ethernet connection so I can send a bit perfect signal to the Devialet while still controlling volume in Roon. Using USB Roon can't control volume by using the Devialet's volume control so it controls volume over USB by applying DSP. Is that result any worse in terms of sound quality? I don't know but regardless of whether USB or ethernet is theoretically superior, I tend to believe that sending a bit perfect signal to the Devialet and applying volume control in the Devialet is theoretically superior to controlling volume by DSP in Roon and losing the bit perfect signal transmission.

YMMV. USB and ethernet sound different to me and I prefer the sound I get with ethernet. Ethernet also allows me to control volume in Roon and keep a bit perfect signal path which I'd prefer to do. Others, including you, prefer USB and that's fine but one thing is certain and that is that neither USB nor ethernet is preferred by everyone. When different people have different preferences my advice is always that you should run with what your personal preference is because that's the option which will give you most enjoyment.
Roon Nucleus+, Devilalet Expert 140 Pro CI, Focal Sopra 2, PS Audio P12, WireWorld Starlight ethernet cables, Cisco SG110D-05 network switch, Kimber Select speaker cables, Shunyata Alpha NR and Delta EF power cables power cables, Grand Prix Audio Monaco rack, RealTRAPS acoustic treatment.

Brisbane, Qld, Australia
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(Yesterday, 00:36)David A Wrote:
(14-Oct-2019, 22:55)Snoopy8 Wrote:
(14-Oct-2019, 15:34)daniel.avasilichioaei Wrote: A direct cable connection between streamer and DAC (with high quality cable) is not better than any router/switch (EtherRegen or not)?...
It is less expensive, for sure.
It is better to improve the USB first, then later the switch because USB will deliver more benefits. 

I don't agree that USB is superior, at least not for everyone.

I've read comments from various manufacturers, some of whom say that USB is better and some of whom say that ethernet is better. ...
My experience suggests that 
generic Ethernet cable/switch -> streamer -> good USB cable -> DAC

produces better results than:
good Ethernet cable/switch -> streamer -> generic USB cable -> DAC

I believe Daniel was referring to the above common scenario.  DACs with Ethernet ports are less common and I defer to your knowledge of them.
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(Yesterday, 02:34)Snoopy8 Wrote: My experience suggests that 
generic Ethernet cable/switch -> streamer -> good USB cable -> DAC

produces better results than:
good Ethernet cable/switch -> streamer -> generic USB cable -> DAC

I believe Daniel was referring to the above common scenario.  DACs with Ethernet ports are less common and I defer to your knowledge of them.

The Devialet is a DAC with an ethernet port. All of my experience is with streaming from a server or computer to the Devialet over ethernet.

My experience is that source (server) -> ethernet cable with or without switch -> Devialet  produces better results than source (server) -> USB cable -> Devialet.
Roon Nucleus+, Devilalet Expert 140 Pro CI, Focal Sopra 2, PS Audio P12, WireWorld Starlight ethernet cables, Cisco SG110D-05 network switch, Kimber Select speaker cables, Shunyata Alpha NR and Delta EF power cables power cables, Grand Prix Audio Monaco rack, RealTRAPS acoustic treatment.

Brisbane, Qld, Australia
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(Yesterday, 08:41)David A Wrote: My experience is that source (server) -> ethernet cable with or without switch -> Devialet  produces better results than source (server) -> USB cable -> Devialet.

David, As you said earlier and I think everyone agrees, 'better' is a personal thing. Can you please describe what 'better' means to your ears? I've recently started using an MIT SL Matrix USB cable between my Mac mini and Expert and it sounds much cleaner, less edgy in the highs, therefore more open and musical. It somewhat surprised me how much 'better' it sounds than with the Curious USB.
                                                    Lifetime Roon, Mac mini, int. SSD, ext. HDD, tv as monitor, key board and track pad on bean bag as remote,Devialet 200, Od'A #097, Blue jeans speaker cable,                                     
                                                                                                                                                                            Dynaudio C1 MkII.
                                                                                                                                                                              Jim Smith's GBS.
                                                                                                                                                                        Northern NSW Australia.
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(Yesterday, 08:41)David A Wrote: The Devialet is a DAC with an ethernet port. All of my experience is with streaming from a server or computer to the Devialet over ethernet.
Sorry for the confusion, but I am not familiar with the Expert Pro range. Have Phantom which does not have USB input and had other streamer, DAC setups.
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Pim.

Your query highlights one of the problems with personal reports. You said that an MIT SL Matrix USB cable sounds better than the Curious USB cable. My comparisons were made with the Curious USB cable so that may be a factor in my preference given that you indicate that you found the Curious cable edgy in comparison to the MIT cable and edginess was part of my problem with USB.

Another possible problem may lie in my musical preferences. I listen mostly to jazz and acoustic music rather than rock. I like a warmer, mellower, and more relaxed sound than a lot of the people in my audio club who prefer rock seem to prefer, and I also listen at noticeably lower levels than those people. My experience is that USB is brighter and slightly harder than ethernet. One example is that I find USB has tended to result in a tighter, more wiry sound from acoustic double bass with less emphasis on the wood tone which adds warmth and that overall highs are sweeter with ethernet. The thing is that I can't discount some influence of my preferred listening level on what I'm hearing because what the Fletcher Munson curves showing the variation in our hearing sensitivity to highs and lows at different listening levels shows that turning the volume up increases our perception of the highs and lows so my lower listening levels and age related decline in my high frequency hearing (I'm 72) may be masking some things which others perceive as edginess.

Another factor may be my speakers. I'm using Focal Sopra 2s which have a beryllium tweeter which I've seen some characterise as bright though I don't notice brightness from them in my system and room, even though the beryllium tweeter is certainly a bit brighter and more extended to my ears than the silk dome tweeters of my previous Dynaudio Contour 1.3 SEs which probably were fairly similar in some ways to your C1s though probably not quite as extended or sweet.

I think there's a number of factors involved in this sort of assessment and we tend to discuss them in terms of the electronics only but other factors like music taste, listening level, speaker choice and room and listening setup all have an influence on the overall tonal character of what we hear.
Roon Nucleus+, Devilalet Expert 140 Pro CI, Focal Sopra 2, PS Audio P12, WireWorld Starlight ethernet cables, Cisco SG110D-05 network switch, Kimber Select speaker cables, Shunyata Alpha NR and Delta EF power cables power cables, Grand Prix Audio Monaco rack, RealTRAPS acoustic treatment.

Brisbane, Qld, Australia
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I can only repeat myself, I went through all these steps, from USB via cascaded Mutec MC-3 USB with a REF10 to an optimized Ethernet connection via Aqvox SE and optical bridge (which was clearly better) to uPnP via Ethernet (again better, but with some hiccups during playback) to uPnP via WLAN (again better, no playback problems anymore).
So for me the option with no additional components has a better SQ than all cable based options. I can only recommend to try this, jRiver or better Audirvana are both available as trial if not already available. The CI board now supports 5Ghz Wifi, it is extremly fast and also stable, no AIR related problems.
It seems no one else is trying this option so far...
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