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Darko did not care for the Devialet demo!
#11
(23-May-2015, 10:14)clive.grace Wrote: My point is that there is a correlation between Sjaran liking all that Devialet is not; phantom especially dispenses with the very thing that keeps his business model alive. Vast quantities of add-on foo.

This definitely happens in many outlets. In Srajan's case it does not hold up. The following is summarized from the article being discussed:

The article is about the Kii 3, a 10,000 euro - small active speaker, amp, Dac all in one (just need a laptop). 
In the same article he also talks how the Devialet Phantom is an example of how innovative companies backed by R&D are setting the way for the future. Lastly that the Kii 3 is a reality check for those perched on their "hifi altars".

From reading the article I understood he just did not like the presentation of the Phantoms. In the comments section you can also read how he is "100% certain" the Phantoms would be a lot more impressive if properly demonstrated.

When we have beliefs we hold onto them and see what we want to see. Better to follow something than to be led by something. 
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#12
Yes but surely he is only saying he didn't like the music played and is relying on people filling in the missing blanks to infer that that includes the Phantoms? A very good way of damning with faint praise.
UK kit - Technics SP10 - Technics EPA-501  - AT33SA - NUC5i3 - W10 - Roonserver - Roon AIR - Devialet 1000 Pro CI - Blue Jeans Speaker Cable (0.5 metre each side) - Magico S5

Spain kit - NUC7i5 - W10  - Roonserver - Roon AIR - Devialet D250 Pro CI - Blue Jeans Speaker Cable - Ergo IX speakers
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#13
(24-May-2015, 12:13)NickB Wrote: Yes but surely he is only saying he didn't like the music played and is relying on people filling in the missing blanks to infer that that includes the Phantoms? A very good way of damning with faint praise.One last way to think of it, remove your belief from the equation. The world's most renowned beer taster went to a beer competition and was served a warm beer from a brewer (insert your 

What I am trying to say is that people hold onto their belief, such as "x product is good, the best". You have money and time invested you want to believe. To all of a sudden not believe is to feel cheated, a fool, parted with money etc. To protect people find fault elsewhere or see what they want to see.

One last way to think of it, remove your belief from the equation. The world's most renowned beer taster went to a beer competition and was served a warm beer (other people said the same) from a brewer (insert your favorite beer), he did not enjoy it but he is "100% certain it would be a lot more impressive" if it was served at the proper temperature. Do you feel he has special interests to the big beer companies, is damning with faint praise? No he was served a warm beer. 

Why does this scenario not make people point to the critic and properly point to the person serving the beer, because most beers cost a buck or two. And everyone knows people have different tastes anyway.


Read the article, read his words. Step away from your beliefs and you will see the fault is with the people who played music so loud that it was clipping and distorting. Many rooms seem to have the designer in the room who knows the product inside and out, not sure who is running Devialet's shows, anyone know?
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#14
(24-May-2015, 12:52)karastav Wrote:
(24-May-2015, 12:13)NickB Wrote: Yes but surely he is only saying he didn't like the music played and is relying on people filling in the missing blanks to infer that that includes the Phantoms? A very good way of damning with faint praise.One last way to think of it, remove your belief from the equation. The world's most renowned beer taster went to a beer competition and was served a warm beer from a brewer (insert your 

What I am trying to say is that people hold onto their belief, such as "x product is good, the best". You have money and time invested you want to believe. To all of a sudden not believe is to feel cheated, a fool, parted with money etc. To protect people find fault elsewhere or see what they want to see.

One last way to think of it, remove your belief from the equation. The world's most renowned beer taster went to a beer competition and was served a warm beer (other people said the same) from a brewer (insert your favorite beer), he did not enjoy it but he is "100% certain it would be a lot more impressive" if it was served at the proper temperature. Do you feel he has special interests to the big beer companies, is damning with faint praise? No he was served a warm beer. 

Why does this scenario not make people point to the critic and properly point to the person serving the beer, because most beers cost a buck or two. And everyone knows people have different tastes anyway.


Read the article, read his words. Step away from your beliefs and you will see the fault is with the people who played music so loud that it was clipping and distorting. Many rooms seem to have the designer in the room who knows the product inside and out, not sure who is running Devialet's shows, anyone know?

When I saw this demo back in early March at a local well-established high-end shop The Phantoms were fully displayed. They had the cut away version and the 'fixed/exploded' version setting in their clear acrylic display boxes atop white laminated same-sized display stands . They had one pair on their own Phantom stands but those were dummies and didn't play during the demonstration. The demo units were 4 pair of Silvers set on small, individual white laminated cubicles at about thigh height and cranked up W-A-Y past their optimal listening volume. Since this was an "invitation only" demonstration the attendees were rather affluent, high end customers that likely were there because of previous purchases. They attended primarily solo but fully a third with wives/girlfriends as this was a catered affair happening in two adjacent although separate buildings. Initially there were maybe 40 people in the Phantom venue which also housed the refreshments and served as a 'meet-n-greet' reception area. Within a very few minutes attendees had fled the demonstration, returning only for refills and/or subsequent refreshments. The kids running the demo were young men. No idea of age but probably under 25 years. The volume was apparent not only outside but also across the street as that's where I went to join a friend who was smoking. We talked at length about how high the volume was in that room and commented how it would've been better served 25 miles west at Red Rocks Amphitheater. We also talked about how we wanted to see what was driving those speakers as we both had at least a passing interest in Devialet. However the drive units were kept hidden behind a curtain and out of sight. We saw the young men disappearing behind those curtains thinking maybe someone would lower the volume however, only track changes were made, again 'techno' genre and played loud... no, I mean really Really REALLY L-O-U-D!!!

As to Srajan, I make no value statement whatsoever. To me he's neither good, bad, right or wrong... neither here nor there really. He's got a job to do. But I've been around this game probably longer than many here have been on the planet! My first foray into hifi purchases was made during R&R's to Bangkok from Viet Nam during the mid-60's. All the usual fodder, ie; Teac R to R's, Braun ADS, Sansui et al sent home by the at-the time ONLY shipping company in the world... USPS! All I can say about Srajan and his comments related to this event is there's no doubt in my mind he apparently saw the same Phantom demonstration I did albeit in Germany and while he's many things to many people he's absolutely right about this, least in my mind! I personally feel he made no value-statemnt about Phantom, Devialet, the music played etc any more than my old acquaintance and I did two months ago standing outside and across the street from the same demonstration. Or if he did in some subliminal way I'm unaffected by it. It was simply played W-A-Y too loud! Too loud for the venue! Too loud for the speakers! Too loud for the attendees and too loud for any good to come from it. Period! Which syllable exactly in "too loud" are some struggling with and why does it need to be made into anything more because of who said it!?! Somebody needed to say it and I don't see any hidden agenda or conspiracy theory hidden in his comment.


 
Statements in my posts are opinion only, not to be construed as fact. Any projects I engage in are at my own risk! Their outcome cannot be assured and may result in success, small/no change or catastrophic failure. I encourage no one rely on anything I say or do as gospel and to realize your mileage may vary!
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#15
(24-May-2015, 15:00)Manoet Wrote:
(24-May-2015, 12:52)karastav Wrote:
(24-May-2015, 12:13)NickB Wrote: Yes but surely he is only saying he didn't like the music played and is relying on people filling in the missing blanks to infer that that includes the Phantoms? A very good way of damning with faint praise.One last way to think of it, remove your belief from the equation. The world's most renowned beer taster went to a beer competition and was served a warm beer from a brewer (insert your 

What I am trying to say is that people hold onto their belief, such as "x product is good, the best". You have money and time invested you want to believe. To all of a sudden not believe is to feel cheated, a fool, parted with money etc. To protect people find fault elsewhere or see what they want to see.

One last way to think of it, remove your belief from the equation. The world's most renowned beer taster went to a beer competition and was served a warm beer (other people said the same) from a brewer (insert your favorite beer), he did not enjoy it but he is "100% certain it would be a lot more impressive" if it was served at the proper temperature. Do you feel he has special interests to the big beer companies, is damning with faint praise? No he was served a warm beer. 

Why does this scenario not make people point to the critic and properly point to the person serving the beer, because most beers cost a buck or two. And everyone knows people have different tastes anyway.


Read the article, read his words. Step away from your beliefs and you will see the fault is with the people who played music so loud that it was clipping and distorting. Many rooms seem to have the designer in the room who knows the product inside and out, not sure who is running Devialet's shows, anyone know?

When I saw this demo back in early March at a local well-established high-end shop The Phantoms were fully displayed. They had the cut away version and the 'fixed/exploded' version setting in their clear acrylic display boxes atop white laminated same-sized display stands . They had one pair on their own Phantom stands but those were dummies and didn't play during the demonstration. The demo units were 4 pair of Silvers set on small, individual white laminated cubicles at about thigh height and cranked up W-A-Y past their optimal listening volume. Since this was an "invitation only" demonstration the attendees were rather affluent, high end customers that likely were there because of previous purchases. They attended primarily solo but fully a third with wives/girlfriends as this was a catered affair happening in two adjacent although separate buildings. Initially there were maybe 40 people in the Phantom venue which also housed the refreshments and served as a 'meet-n-greet' reception area. Within a very few minutes attendees had fled the demonstration, returning only for refills and/or subsequent refreshments. The kids running the demo were young men. No idea of age but probably under 25 years. The volume was apparent not only outside but also across the street as that's where I went to join a friend who was smoking. We talked at length about how high the volume was in that room and commented how it would've been better served 25 miles west at Red Rocks Amphitheater. We also talked about how we wanted to see what was driving those speakers as we both had at least a passing interest in Devialet. However the drive units were kept hidden behind a curtain and out of sight. We saw the young men disappearing behind those curtains thinking maybe someone would lower the volume however, only track changes were made, again 'techno' genre and played loud... no, I mean really Really REALLY L-O-U-D!!!

As to Srajan, I make no value statement whatsoever. To me he's neither good, bad, right or wrong... neither here nor there really. He's got a job to do. But I've been around this game probably longer than many here have been on the planet! My first foray into hifi purchases was made during R&R's to Bangkok from Viet Nam during the mid-60's. All the usual fodder, ie; Teac R to R's, Braun ADS, Sansui et al sent home by the at-the time ONLY shipping company in the world... USPS! All I can say about Srajan and his comments related to this event is there's no doubt in my mind he apparently saw the same Phantom demonstration I did albeit in Germany and while he's many things to many people he's absolutely right about this, least in my mind! I personally feel he made no value-statemnt about Phantom, Devialet, the music played etc any more than my old acquaintance and I did two months ago standing outside and across the street from the same demonstration. Or if he did in some subliminal way I'm unaffected by it. It was simply played W-A-Y too loud! Too loud for the venue! Too loud for the speakers! Too loud for the attendees and too loud for any good to come from it. Period! Which syllable exactly in "too loud" are some struggling with and why does it need to be made into anything more because of who said it!?! Somebody needed to say it and I don't see any hidden agenda or conspiracy theory hidden in his comment.


 

For what it's worth I found the Phantom demo at Munich too loud and at times it sounded like there was a pneumatic drill going off in that room! Undecided Oh, and I love techno, I just found the sound a little overwhelming of the senses. Perhaps that was the intent: shock and awe! The trouble was the room acoustics weren't too good (as is the case in most rooms at Munich) so the result was that the midrange seemed a little muddied. 

Still I look forward to hearing the Phantoms in my house (the only way I truly evaluate equipment), I'm just not prepared to buy them on spec.

Guillaume
Industry disclosure: UK distributor for Shunyata Research

220 PRO, totaldac d1 server with additional external power supply, totaldac d1-seven, Echole PSU for Totaldac, Wilson Audio Sasha 2, Shunyata Research cables, Shunyata Triton v3 + Typhon QR + DPC-6 v3, Various Entreq ground boxes and cables, Entreq Athena level 3 rack, SOtM sNH-10G with sCLK-EX + 10MHz Master Clock input + sPS-500 PSU, i5 sonicTransporter w/ 1TB SSD

UK
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#16
(24-May-2015, 15:11)Guill  aumeB Wrote:
(24-May-2015, 15:00)Manoet Wrote:
(24-May-2015, 12:52)karastav Wrote:
(24-May-2015, 12:13)NickB Wrote: Yes but surely he is only saying he didn't like the music played and is relying on people filling in the missing blanks to infer that that includes the Phantoms? A very good way of damning with faint praise.One last way to think of it, remove your belief from the equation. The world's most renowned beer taster went to a beer competition and was served a warm beer from a brewer (insert your 

What I am trying to say is that people hold onto their belief, such as "x product is good, the best". You have money and time invested you want to believe. To all of a sudden not believe is to feel cheated, a fool, parted with money etc. To protect people find fault elsewhere or see what they want to see.

One last way to think of it, remove your belief from the equation. The world's most renowned beer taster went to a beer competition and was served a warm beer (other people said the same) from a brewer (insert your favorite beer), he did not enjoy it but he is "100% certain it would be a lot more impressive" if it was served at the proper temperature. Do you feel he has special interests to the big beer companies, is damning with faint praise? No he was served a warm beer. 

Why does this scenario not make people point to the critic and properly point to the person serving the beer, because most beers cost a buck or two. And everyone knows people have different tastes anyway.


Read the article, read his words. Step away from your beliefs and you will see the fault is with the people who played music so loud that it was clipping and distorting. Many rooms seem to have the designer in the room who knows the product inside and out, not sure who is running Devialet's shows, anyone know?

When I saw this demo back in early March at a local well-established high-end shop The Phantoms were fully displayed. They had the cut away version and the 'fixed/exploded' version setting in their clear acrylic display boxes atop white laminated same-sized display stands . They had one pair on their own Phantom stands but those were dummies and didn't play during the demonstration. The demo units were 4 pair of Silvers set on small, individual white laminated cubicles at about thigh height and cranked up W-A-Y past their optimal listening volume. Since this was an "invitation only" demonstration the attendees were rather affluent, high end customers that likely were there because of previous purchases. They attended primarily solo but fully a third with wives/girlfriends as this was a catered affair happening in two adjacent although separate buildings. Initially there were maybe 40 people in the Phantom venue which also housed the refreshments and served as a 'meet-n-greet' reception area. Within a very few minutes attendees had fled the demonstration, returning only for refills and/or subsequent refreshments. The kids running the demo were young men. No idea of age but probably under 25 years. The volume was apparent not only outside but also across the street as that's where I went to join a friend who was smoking. We talked at length about how high the volume was in that room and commented how it would've been better served 25 miles west at Red Rocks Amphitheater. We also talked about how we wanted to see what was driving those speakers as we both had at least a passing interest in Devialet. However the drive units were kept hidden behind a curtain and out of sight. We saw the young men disappearing behind those curtains thinking maybe someone would lower the volume however, only track changes were made, again 'techno' genre and played loud... no, I mean really Really REALLY L-O-U-D!!!

As to Srajan, I make no value statement whatsoever. To me he's neither good, bad, right or wrong... neither here nor there really. He's got a job to do. But I've been around this game probably longer than many here have been on the planet! My first foray into hifi purchases was made during R&R's to Bangkok from Viet Nam during the mid-60's. All the usual fodder, ie; Teac R to R's, Braun ADS, Sansui et al sent home by the at-the time ONLY shipping company in the world... USPS! All I can say about Srajan and his comments related to this event is there's no doubt in my mind he apparently saw the same Phantom demonstration I did albeit in Germany and while he's many things to many people he's absolutely right about this, least in my mind! I personally feel he made no value-statemnt about Phantom, Devialet, the music played etc any more than my old acquaintance and I did two months ago standing outside and across the street from the same demonstration. Or if he did in some subliminal way I'm unaffected by it. It was simply played W-A-Y too loud! Too loud for the venue! Too loud for the speakers! Too loud for the attendees and too loud for any good to come from it. Period! Which syllable exactly in "too loud" are some struggling with and why does it need to be made into anything more because of who said it!?! Somebody needed to say it and I don't see any hidden agenda or conspiracy theory hidden in his comment.

For what it's worth I found the Phantom demo at Munich too loud and at times it sounded like there was a pneumatic drill going off in that room! :-/ Oh, and I love techno, I just found the sound a little overwhelming of the senses. Perhaps that was the intent: shock and awe! The trouble was the room acoustics weren't too good (as is the case in most rooms at Munich) so the result was that the midrange seemed a little muddied. 

Still I look forward to hearing the Phantoms in my house (the only way I truly evaluate equipment), I'm just not prepared to buy them on spec.

Guillaume



Good morning, 

I have tried for weeks to get some useful and musical contents from your site and with all due respect it appears too me as nothing less than and old boy's "triumph motorcycle owners " blog site.

Devialet has not credibility in the world of hard core high-enders. Devialet that was 2010, the people that got fooled by the press then, have for most upgraded their system to bring music back into their systems.

So Darko and whoever dammed the Phantom are 100% right and whoever tried to give allowance for the poor room acoustics in Munich is ether too polite or is trying to justify his ownership of some Devialet component.
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#17
Uh oh, it seems that we have been fooled by the press. Thank you so much earsnova for opening my eyes. I'll immediately start a search for better equipment to get back to the "hard core high-end level"! Big Grin Any suggestions?

PS. If you're looking for musical content you might have better luck at your (online) record store or one of the cloud streaming services. Wink
PS Audio P3, Shunyata ΞTRON Alpha Digital and HC/Furutech power cables, Paul Hynes SR7EHD-MR4, DIY Roon Server & Roon Endpoint running AudioLinux Headless, Phasure Lush^2 USB cable, Audioquest Diamond RJ/E ethernet, Mutec MC-3+ USB, Shunyata ΞTRON Anaconda Digital XLR AES/EBU, Devialet Expert 250 Pro CI, Nordost Tyr Reference LS cables, Von Schweikert VR-5 SE Anniversary Edition, Anti-Mode Dual Core 2.0, JL Audio Fathom F112. More detail here.

The Netherlands


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#18
earsnova - one thing I have noticed on this forum is a surprising interest in threads about alternatives to the Devialet. Yes, this forum is populated by people who own Devialets, so I guess there is bound to be some bias, but presumably most have auditioned alternatives prior to making what is a fairly expensive purchase.

Anyway, I for one would be interested in what alternative does have credibility with the hard core hi-enders. (I like a bit of hard core)

P.S. it just so happens that I'm also a bit of a fan of the latest Triumph Speed Triple, a very nice bit of kit, no stereo though.....
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#19
LOL, I feel like I've just been insulted by Borat!
Statements in my posts are opinion only, not to be construed as fact. Any projects I engage in are at my own risk! Their outcome cannot be assured and may result in success, small/no change or catastrophic failure. I encourage no one rely on anything I say or do as gospel and to realize your mileage may vary!
Reply
#20
(06-Jun-2015, 10:55)earsnova Wrote: Good morning, 

I have tried for weeks to get some useful and musical contents from your site and with all due respect it appears too me as nothing less than and old boy's "triumph motorcycle owners " blog site.

Devialet has not credibility in the world of hard core high-enders. Devialet that was 2010, the people that got fooled by the press then, have for most upgraded their system to bring music back into their systems.

So Darko and whoever dammed the Phantom are 100% right and whoever tried to give allowance for the poor room acoustics in Munich is ether too polite or is trying to justify his ownership of some Devialet component.

Shouldn't that be "nothing more than an old boy's triumph motorcycle owners blog site"?  "Nothing less than and old boy's triumph motorcycle owners blog site" would be in fact be somewhat more than a Triumph motorcycle owners club.  Plus the "and" should be "an".  The grammar of trolls these days is deeply disappointing.
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