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Devialet WiFi Bit Perfect?
#11
(20-Nov-2020, 13:53)Sailor4W Wrote:
(20-Nov-2020, 09:54)Chris Marshall Wrote: Hi

Above 24/96, the wifi changes it's mode to increase reliability I believe, I think it changes the clock control from the receiving device (the devialet) to the sending device the PC).  It should still be bit perfect but the devialet is receiving a less accurately timed file (more jitter?).  Whether this makes any difference depends how well the devialet deals with this, in practice I felt more comfortable with ethernet for DSD and 24/192 but it's probably more paranoia than reality.  There are (or were) some pages buried somewhere in devialet's website that talk about this with a more correct technical explanation.

cheers

Chris

Wow, good to know!

I thought either Roon or Devialet would have some algorithm built in to automatically down-sample everything above 96 kHz files. But I do see the reason of increasing reliability of transmission. I switched to Ethernet in the meantime and all 196 kHz files are kept as such!

DSD? Does Devialet do some DS? Didn't know that. But I should finally read Devialet's manual!

Yes, I use DSD via RAAT (works by air Ethernet as well I'm pretty sure) a fair bit.  The devialet it fundamentally PCM but I think they transform it mathematically to the same PCM format they use for volume control (I think their three letter acronym was Minimum Arithmetic Transform!).

Just found a link to the white paper about it if anyone needs help getting to sleep . https://www.tophifi.pl/productattachment...oad?id=260

Anyway, well recorded DSD sounds great through the Devialet!  I recently bought and ripped 3 of the MFSL Dire Straits remasters and Love Over Gold and Dire Straits are the best I've ever heard them.

cheers

Chris
Roon/RAAT - Dev 250 Pro - AQ Castle Rock - SF Olympica ii
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#12
(20-Nov-2020, 17:27)Chris Marshall Wrote:
(20-Nov-2020, 13:53)Sailor4W Wrote:
(20-Nov-2020, 09:54)Chris Marshall Wrote: Hi

Above 24/96, the wifi changes it's mode to increase reliability I believe, I think it changes the clock control from the receiving device (the devialet) to the sending device the PC).  It should still be bit perfect but the devialet is receiving a less accurately timed file (more jitter?).  Whether this makes any difference depends how well the devialet deals with this, in practice I felt more comfortable with ethernet for DSD and 24/192 but it's probably more paranoia than reality.  There are (or were) some pages buried somewhere in devialet's website that talk about this with a more correct technical explanation.

cheers

Chris

Wow, good to know!

I thought either Roon or Devialet would have some algorithm built in to automatically down-sample everything above 96 kHz files. But I do see the reason of increasing reliability of transmission. I switched to Ethernet in the meantime and all 196 kHz files are kept as such!

DSD? Does Devialet do some DS? Didn't know that. But I should finally read Devialet's manual!

Yes, I use DSD via RAAT (works by air Ethernet as well I'm pretty sure) a fair bit.  The devialet it fundamentally PCM but I think they transform it mathematically to the same PCM format they use for volume control (I think their three letter acronym was Minimum Arithmetic Transform!). 

Just found a link to the white paper about it if anyone needs help getting to sleep https://www.tophifi.pl/productattachment...oad?id=260

Anyway, well recorded DSD sounds great through the Devialet!  I recently bought and ripped 3 of the MFSL Dire Straits remasters and Love Over Gold and Dire Straits are the best I've ever heard them.

cheers

Chris

Thanks so much for the link!

So what is the max DSD Rate the Devialet is capable of handling?

And you basically feed in a DSD file and Devialet recognizes it and plays ist over DoP? Or does one have to make adjustments in the player software, say, Roon?

Regards, Paul
SonicTransporter i5 - AirPort Extreme - Devialet Expert 120 - ATC SCM 19 v1
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#13
(20-Nov-2020, 19:46)Sailor4W Wrote:
(20-Nov-2020, 17:27)Chris Marshall Wrote:
(20-Nov-2020, 13:53)Sailor4W Wrote: Wow, good to know!

I thought either Roon or Devialet would have some algorithm built in to automatically down-sample everything above 96 kHz files. But I do see the reason of increasing reliability of transmission. I switched to Ethernet in the meantime and all 196 kHz files are kept as such!

DSD? Does Devialet do some DS? Didn't know that. But I should finally read Devialet's manual!

Yes, I use DSD via RAAT (works by air Ethernet as well I'm pretty sure) a fair bit.  The devialet it fundamentally PCM but I think they transform it mathematically to the same PCM format they use for volume control (I think their three letter acronym was Minimum Arithmetic Transform!). 

Just found a link to the white paper about it if anyone needs help getting to sleep https://www.tophifi.pl/productattachment...oad?id=260

Anyway, well recorded DSD sounds great through the Devialet!  I recently bought and ripped 3 of the MFSL Dire Straits remasters and Love Over Gold and Dire Straits are the best I've ever heard them.

cheers

Chris

Thanks so much for the link!

So what is the max DSD Rate the Devialet is capable of handling?

And you basically feed in a DSD file and Devialet recognizes it and plays ist over DoP? Or does one have to make adjustments in the player software, say, Roon?

Regards, Paul

Devialet will accept DSD64 only. Internally, it gets converted to PCM as usual. 

Roon will output DSD64 from any file you want. 

So, you could go Redbook PCM=>DSD64=>Devialet which will turn it back into PCM internally..

Would this sound better than just sending the original file to the Devialet ?  In theory, I would say no, but in practice . . . . .
NUC i5/ROCK/Roon Lifetime =>  Original d'Atelier CoreInfinity #066 => Transparent MusicWave+ =>Wilson Sophia 3
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#14
I’ve played with upsampling in Roon with various ideas, max PCM, factor of 2 PCM and DSD. Honestly, I can’t say I ever hard a clear improvement so just play everything native now and let the devialet do it’s own upsampling.
Roon/RAAT - Dev 250 Pro - AQ Castle Rock - SF Olympica ii
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#15
(20-Nov-2020, 20:58)Zappydev Wrote:
(20-Nov-2020, 19:46)Sailor4W Wrote:
(20-Nov-2020, 17:27)Chris Marshall Wrote: Yes, I use DSD via RAAT (works by air Ethernet as well I'm pretty sure) a fair bit.  The devialet it fundamentally PCM but I think they transform it mathematically to the same PCM format they use for volume control (I think their three letter acronym was Minimum Arithmetic Transform!). 

Just found a link to the white paper about it if anyone needs help getting to sleep https://www.tophifi.pl/productattachment...oad?id=260

Anyway, well recorded DSD sounds great through the Devialet!  I recently bought and ripped 3 of the MFSL Dire Straits remasters and Love Over Gold and Dire Straits are the best I've ever heard them.

cheers

Chris

Thanks so much for the link!

So what is the max DSD Rate the Devialet is capable of handling?

And you basically feed in a DSD file and Devialet recognizes it and plays ist over DoP? Or does one have to make adjustments in the player software, say, Roon?

Regards, Paul

Devialet will accept DSD64 only. Internally, it gets converted to PCM as usual. 

Roon will output DSD64 from any file you want. 

So, you could go Redbook PCM=>DSD64=>Devialet which will turn it back into PCM internally..

Would this sound better than just sending the original file to the Devialet ?  In theory, I would say no, but in practice . . . . .

Of course, upsampling of PCM files to DSD and re-sampling them back to PCM is useless, of not even error prone. I was more thinking of buying a native DSD album and see if I like the format. I have no idea, though, where to find DSD albums.
SonicTransporter i5 - AirPort Extreme - Devialet Expert 120 - ATC SCM 19 v1
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#16
(20-Nov-2020, 23:22)Chris Marshall Wrote: I’ve played with upsampling in Roon with various ideas, max PCM, factor of 2 PCM and DSD.  Honestly, I can’t say I ever hard a clear improvement so just play everything native now and let the devialet do it’s own upsampling.

I agree, I also played around with upsampling and never heard a significant difference. Why should there be one in the first place?
With upsampling in the Devialet, you mean the actual upsampling in the conversion chip?
Anyhow, I like the sound of my Devialet as it is, therefore I don‘t see the need for me to pull all the bells and whistles.
SonicTransporter i5 - AirPort Extreme - Devialet Expert 120 - ATC SCM 19 v1
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#17
(21-Nov-2020, 08:13)Sailor4W Wrote:
(20-Nov-2020, 20:58)Zappydev Wrote:
(20-Nov-2020, 19:46)Sailor4W Wrote: Thanks so much for the link!

So what is the max DSD Rate the Devialet is capable of handling?

And you basically feed in a DSD file and Devialet recognizes it and plays ist over DoP? Or does one have to make adjustments in the player software, say, Roon?

Regards, Paul

Devialet will accept DSD64 only. Internally, it gets converted to PCM as usual. 

Roon will output DSD64 from any file you want. 

So, you could go Redbook PCM=>DSD64=>Devialet which will turn it back into PCM internally..

Would this sound better than just sending the original file to the Devialet ?  In theory, I would say no, but in practice . . . . .

Of course, upsampling of PCM files to DSD and re-sampling them back to PCM is useless, of not even error prone. I was more thinking of buying a native DSD album and see if I like the format. I have no idea, though, where to find DSD albums.
The owner of this site is a great recording engineer and records in DSD. I don’t know what your music tastes are, but this will give you an idea of how good DSD can sound. There is a track you can download free in several different formats to see if you can tell the difference in sound quality. All downloads are available in DSD64 as well as other formats.
https://bluecoastrecords.com
Project Eperience X Pack with Ortofon Rondo Red MC, Oppo BDP 105D, 2 x Sonos Connect, QNAP HS251+ NAS with 2 X 6TB Western Digital Red, Mac 5K 32GB running Lifetime Roon, iPad Pro 12.9" for remote control.  Etalon Ethernet Isolator, Devialet 440 Pro CI, Sonus faber Olympica ll with Isoacoustics Gaia ll feet, Auralic Taurus Mkll headphone amp.Denon AH-D5000, Sennheiser HD600 and HD800 with Cardas cable,  Van Den Hul The First Ultimate and Crystal interconnects, Furutech power cables, GSP Audio Spatia speaker cable.
South Coast England
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#18
(21-Nov-2020, 08:20)Sailor4W Wrote:
(20-Nov-2020, 23:22)Chris Marshall Wrote: I’ve played with upsampling in Roon with various ideas, max PCM, factor of 2 PCM and DSD.  Honestly, I can’t say I ever hard a clear improvement so just play everything native now and let the devialet do it’s own upsampling.

I agree, I also played around with upsampling and never heard a significant difference. Why should there be one in the first place?
With upsampling in the Devialet, you mean the actual upsampling in the conversion chip?
Anyhow, I like the sound of my Devialet as it is, therefore I don‘t see the need for me to pull all the bells and whistles.

While the Devialet will accept inputs of up to 24/192 and DSD64. My understanding is that internally it upscales everything to 40/392 for its DAC so whatever PCM resolution you send to it up to 24/192  is going to be upscaled and DSD64 is going to be converted to PCM and upscaled.

Like @Chris Marshall, I've played with upsampling in Roon and never heard an improvement. There is a comment from Roon somewhere in their user material that upscaling can be beneficial but that when it comes to a choice between doing it in Roon or doing it in your DAC, and the Devialet is our DAC, then if you have a good DAC it's probably best to let it do the job because the DAC manufacturer is in the best position to be able to optimise the DSP processing involved in order to get the best results from their DAC.
Roon Nucleus+, Devilalet Expert 140 Pro CI, Focal Sopra 2, PS Audio P12, Keces P8 LPS, Uptone Audio EtherREGEN with optical fibre link to my router, Shunyata Alpha NR and Sigma NR power cables, Shunyata Sigma ethernet cables, Shunyata Alpha V2 speaker cables, Grand Prix Audio Monaco rack, RealTRAPS acoustic treatment.

Brisbane, Qld, Australia
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#19
(21-Nov-2020, 08:20)Sailor4W Wrote:
(20-Nov-2020, 23:22)Chris Marshall Wrote: I’ve played with upsampling in Roon with various ideas, max PCM, factor of 2 PCM and DSD.  Honestly, I can’t say I ever hard a clear improvement so just play everything native now and let the devialet do it’s own upsampling.

I agree, I also played around with upsampling and never heard a significant difference. Why should there be one in the first place?
With upsampling in the Devialet, you mean the actual upsampling in the conversion chip?
Anyhow, I like the sound of my Devialet as it is, therefore I don‘t see the need for me to pull all the bells and whistles.

Yes, the upsampling it does before conversion, Devialet describe native processing as 40bit 384khz but I doubt that’s the actual conversion, maybe volume control?
Roon/RAAT - Dev 250 Pro - AQ Castle Rock - SF Olympica ii
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#20
(21-Nov-2020, 09:07)Axel Wrote:
(21-Nov-2020, 08:13)Sailor4W Wrote:
(20-Nov-2020, 20:58)Zappydev Wrote: Devialet will accept DSD64 only. Internally, it gets converted to PCM as usual. 

Roon will output DSD64 from any file you want. 

So, you could go Redbook PCM=>DSD64=>Devialet which will turn it back into PCM internally..

Would this sound better than just sending the original file to the Devialet ?  In theory, I would say no, but in practice . . . . .

Of course, upsampling of PCM files to DSD and re-sampling them back to PCM is useless, of not even error prone. I was more thinking of buying a native DSD album and see if I like the format. I have no idea, though, where to find DSD albums.
The owner of this site is a great recording engineer and records in DSD. I don’t know what your music tastes are, but this will give you an idea of how good DSD can sound. There is a track you can download free in several different formats to see if you can tell the difference in sound quality. All downloads are available in DSD64 as well as other formats.
https://bluecoastrecords.com

Thanks a lot for the link. I'll look into it!

Another DSD link I found is for Native DSD Music https://www.nativedsd.com

Whole new world that all of a sudden popped up  Smile
SonicTransporter i5 - AirPort Extreme - Devialet Expert 120 - ATC SCM 19 v1
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