Devialet at Oxford Audio 13th July

[Antoine]

And yes, in hindsight I do consider it a lie, an implicit one.

[RebelMan]

Oh please...I'm not a naive 4y old.

You have no proof to the contrary, just supposition.  You don't have to be naive but you do have to have the facts.  Personal experiences are not conclusive evidence that they "lied".

I believe you were responding to my post here: http://devialetchat.com/showthread.php?t...1#pid44451 At least it's there where I used the word 'misled' which you used in your reply.

You were hypothesizing about the reasons not me. I don't even care about the reasons (and don't see why I or any customer would or should) and just stated fact; They didn't close the upgrade window on the date communicated and I feel misled. Period!

There were a few places you stated being misled and lied to that I was referring to.  

The simple matter of fact is that plans do change.  Devialet did not mislead nor lie to you but I don't dispute that you feel that way.   So what if you were influenced to upgrade soon.  Odds are you were planning to make upgrade anyway.  Rather than pooh-pooh the next upgrade wave why not relish in the extra time you had your upgraded Premier?  If things were really that bad then why endure?  Perhaps things weren't (aren't) really that bad.  

[Antoine]

This is becoming an uninteresting discussion about semantics and whether or not there there would need to be intent to lie or mislead. I'll just stick to the facts like I did in my original message.

You can read my 1200+ posts to better understand me and my motivations, you've been pretty assuming and wrong up to now. You could for example learn that I've worked around many Devialet shortcomings and 'failed to deliver on' promises.

The argument why not just leave/run away but endure it all is way too black&white. First a considerable investment has been made and second there is/was/has been plenty to be happy about most of the time. The list and total of plusses and minuses is continuously changing though. And to be honest it is at an all time low nowadays. This is also influenced by what the market/competition does. If the sum dips under zero with little hope of improving then I'll start looking at something different. All this however doesn't mean I can't or shouldn't be be critical of certain developments or express my opinion/make suggestions in the mean time. My voice in all this is what it is, one voice. Just like yours, though mine might be a bit louder.

Edit: PS: I would be lying if I said that I never make tendentious statements now and then to stir things up a little.

[Celts88]

Plans change personally and professionally Antoine.  It's not necessarily misleading but perhaps poor planning.

Oh please...I'm not a naive 4y old.

You have no proof to the contrary, just supposition.  You don't have to be naive but you do have to have the facts.  Personal experiences are not conclusive evidence that they "lied".

I think that can work both ways

[RebelMan]

You say you are not naive and I've accepted that.  However, if you have done your due diligence none of the issues you speak of should have been unexpected. This is a young company playing with state of the art technology and anyone exposed to these conditions should well be advised that growing pains and missed opportunities are more often the norm than not.  Those that get it right the first time, and that is rare, very rare, are to be praised and the rest understood.  

As an early adopter none of these issues should have come as a surprise.  In fact prudence would have anticipated it.  I don't object to your (more recent) lack of enthusiasm as you appeared to have been burned but it too is uninteresting to (repeatedly) see less than productive posts about ones feelings and how we should react to them.  Don't be mislead by my join date and new to the club posting.  I've have been watching for a while and yes you are quite outspoken.  It's time to move optimistically forward rather than pessimistically backward. 

[Celts88]

However, if you have done your due diligence none of the issues you speak of should have been unexpected.  

It's time to move optimistically forward rather than pessimistically backward.

Your comments do come across partly condescending.

A product is advertised to perform certain tasks, and then those tasks don't work correctly for some, so why aren't those people who paid the same money as those that have no issues with the product not allowed to complain. You buy a car, I buy a car, mine has no issues, yours periodically does, are you not then entitled to complain to the supplier, especially if they still haven't fixed the issues after multiple requests.

Devialet supply great products, and no one is naive enough to assume that everything will be perfect, but when it isn't then it would also be assumed that the issues will be dealt with and corrected in a timely manner (weeks is to be expected not months, and that's double figure months, not singular).

Don't want to bog down this thread with all negativity and bitching, but Devialet do not exactly have a great track record of fixing part of their product that isn't working correctly (both with Expert & Phantom lines). I've had better customer service from companies where I've bought a product costing in the hundreds, not in the 10's of thousands.

Glad you're enjoying your Devialet product, but it isn't the same for others, and to deny them the expectation for the supplier (Devialet) to fix what what has been paid for is frustrating for those who experiences aren't as enjoyable as others.

[Antoine]

You say you are not naive and I've accepted that.  However, if you have done your due diligence none of the issues you speak of should have been unexpected. This is a young company playing with state of the art technology and anyone exposed to these conditions should well be advised that growing pains and missed opportunities are more often the norm than not.  Those that get it right the first time, and that is rare, very rare, are to be praised and the rest understood.  

As an early adopter none of these issues should have come as a surprise.  In fact prudence would have anticipated it.  I don't object to your (more recent) lack of enthusiasm as you appeared to have been burned but it too is uninteresting to (repeatedly) see less than productive posts about ones feelings and how we should react to them.  Don't be mislead by my join date and new to the club posting.  I've have been watching for a while and yes you are quite outspoken.  It's time to move optimistically forward rather than pessimistically backward. 

Devialet was founded in 2007 and IMO grew to be really significant in 2010/2011. At that time I also became a customer. The company has changed dramatically since. I no longer buy the 'they're a young company plagued by growing pains' argument. There's plenty of examples of other similar companies where this also doesn't apply. There's a certain level of amateurism/incompetence in this company which they're struggling to get rid of. And I mean primarily on the business side though there are plenty of technical issues too. Sometimes it's like they don't know what they want to become when they grow up which results in them (seemingly) missing a general sense of direction.

I'm not moving pessimistically backwards, I'm trying to use the little influence I have through a forum like this to warn about mistakes made in the past hoping they won't be made again. I do recognize improvements, today and yesterday I've seen great examples (for the first time in five years) of their willingness to change. And I'd like them to succeed.

When posting on a forum we sometimes help others, sometimes we learn from others, sometimes we just selfishly vent thoughts or emotions. The balance is continously shifting. It's a public forum, don't like me or what I write put me on your ignore list. Temporarily or permanently. I'll respect the basic rules but won't be molded into what anyone wants me to be. You should also not forget that I have a language disadvantage, especially in discussions like these, as English is not my native language.

Edit;time to go to bed now

[Antoine]

However, if you have done your due diligence none of the issues you speak of should have been unexpected.  

It's time to move optimistically forward rather than pessimistically backward.

Your comments do come across partly condescending.

A product is advertised to perform certain tasks, and then those tasks don't work correctly for some, so why aren't those people who paid the same money as those that have no issues with the product not allowed to complain. You buy a car, I buy a car, mine has no issues, yours periodically does, are you not then entitled to complain to the supplier, especially if they still haven't fixed the issues after multiple requests.

Devialet supply great products, and no one is naive enough to assume that everything will be perfect, but when it isn't then it would also be assumed that the issues will be dealt with and corrected in a timely manner (weeks is to be expected not months, and that's double figure months, not singular).

Don't want to bog down this thread with all negativity and bitching, but Devialet do not exactly have a great track record of fixing part of their product that isn't working correctly (both with Expert & Phantom lines). I have had better customer service from companies where I have bought a product costing in the hundreds, not in the 10's of thousands.

Glad you're enjoying your Devialet product, but it isn't the same for others, and to deny them the expectation for the supplier (Devialet) to fix what what has been paid for is frustrating for those who experiences aren't as enjoyful as others.

+1

[RebelMan]

However, if you have done your due diligence none of the issues you speak of should have been unexpected.  

It's time to move optimistically forward rather than pessimistically backward.

Your comments do come across partly condescending.

A product is advertised to perform certain tasks, and then those tasks don't work correctly for some, so why aren't those people who paid the same money as those that have no issues with the product not allowed to complain. You buy a car, I buy a car, mine has no issues, yours periodically does, are you not then entitled to complain to the supplier, especially if they still haven't fixed the issues after multiple requests.

Devialet supply great products, and no one is naive enough to assume that everything will be perfect, but when it isn't then it would also be assumed that the issues will be dealt with and corrected in a timely manner (weeks is to be expected not months, and that's double figure months, not singular).

Don't want to bog down this thread with all negativity and bitching, but Devialet do not exactly have a great track record of fixing part of their product that isn't working correctly (both with Expert & Phantom lines). I've had better customer service from companies where I've bought a product costing in the hundreds, not in the 10's of thousands.

Glad you're enjoying your Devialet product, but it isn't the same for others, and to deny them the expectation for the supplier (Devialet) to fix what what has been paid for is frustrating for those who experiences aren't as enjoyable as others.

My comments are simply derived from the experience and wisdom I have incurred from both this hobby and in my professional career, they're not feelings.  I concur that companies need to take ownership of the products and services they deliver and when they drop the ball they should be held accountable by their customers.  But it's how that feedback is delivered that I take exception too.  Giving an honest account of ones encounters is always welcome but repeatedly bashing a brand (post-to-post and thread-to-thread) because a personal bias exists is not really helpful but rather persuasive in tone.  I understand the frustrations some people have had with Devialet AIR, support and communications, I really do.  But I also know that this is nothing new.  I know that may be sobering news to some and it doesn't help the situation but people should either take the situation for what it is and see a resolution for it through to the end or move on.  Griping is pointless.

[NickB]

However, if you have done your due diligence none of the issues you speak of should have been unexpected.  

It's time to move optimistically forward rather than pessimistically backward.

Your comments do come across partly condescending.

A product is advertised to perform certain tasks, and then those tasks don't work correctly for some, so why aren't those people who paid the same money as those that have no issues with the product not allowed to complain. You buy a car, I buy a car, mine has no issues, yours periodically does, are you not then entitled to complain to the supplier, especially if they still haven't fixed the issues after multiple requests.

Devialet supply great products, and no one is naive enough to assume that everything will be perfect, but when it isn't then it would also be assumed that the issues will be dealt with and corrected in a timely manner (weeks is to be expected not months, and that's double figure months, not singular).

Don't want to bog down this thread with all negativity and bitching, but Devialet do not exactly have a great track record of fixing part of their product that isn't working correctly (both with Expert & Phantom lines). I've had better customer service from companies where I've bought a product costing in the hundreds, not in the 10's of thousands.

Glad you're enjoying your Devialet product, but it isn't the same for others, and to deny them the expectation for the supplier (Devialet) to fix what what has been paid for is frustrating for those who experiences aren't as enjoyable as others.

My comments are simply derived from the experience and wisdom I have incurred from both this hobby and in my professional career, they're not feelings.  I concur that companies need to take ownership of the products and services they deliver and when they drop the ball they should be held accountable by their customers.  But it's how that feedback is delivered that I take exception too.  Giving an honest account of ones encounters is always welcome but repeatedly bashing a brand (post-to-post and thread-to-thread) because a personal bias exists is not really helpful but rather persuasive in tone.  I understand the frustrations some people have had with Devialet AIR, support and communications, I really do.  But I also know that this is nothing new.  I know that may be sobering news to some and it doesn't help the situation but people should either take the situation for what it is and see a resolution for it through to the end or move on.  Griping is pointless.

Make the forum very quiet though, wouldn't it.