Devialet at Oxford Audio 13th July

[RebelMan]

Devialet was founded in 2007 and IMO grew to be really significant in 2010/2011. At that time I also became a customer. The company has changed dramatically since. I no longer buy the 'they're a young company plagued by growing pains' argument. There's plenty of examples of other similar companies where this also doesn't apply. There's a certain level of amateurism/incompetence in this company which they're struggling to get rid of. And I mean primarily on the business side though there are plenty of technical issues too. Sometimes it's like they don't know what they want to become when they grow up which results in them (seemingly) missing a general sense of direction.

I would say they took the world by storm in 2010 with the debut of the Premier but weren't really significant until 2013/2014 when the performance of the Premier was surpassed and for a fraction of the original's price.  The issues troubling Devialet aren't limited to just younger companies.  There are some, more than a few actually, that have been around for decades that still have new product issues with delivery dates, performance, bugs, support and so on.  It's just that the fresher ones are (should be) entitled to a little more latitude for being new to the business.  No one is perfect and there is no question Devialet has room for improvement.  But the positives far outweigh the negatives...  I bought mine KNOWING the issues and you're still here.  

[RebelMan]

Make the forum very quiet though, wouldn't it.

LOL, I get your point but I don't think so.  There's a lot of excitement to speak about right now.  Unfortunately, that excitement is often tempered or worse derailed because of Debby Downers.  The messages were loud and clear but now lets move on with more positive reinforcement.  

[ogs]

My comments are simply derived from the experience and wisdom I have incurred from both this hobby and in my professional career, they're not feelings.  I concur that companies need to take ownership of the products and services they deliver and when they drop the ball they should be held accountable by their customers.  But it's how that feedback is delivered that I take exception too.  Giving an honest account of ones encounters is always welcome but repeatedly bashing a brand (post-to-post and thread-to-thread) because a personal bias exists is not really helpful but rather persuasive in tone.  I understand the frustrations some people have had with Devialet AIR, support and communications, I really do.  But I also know that this is nothing new.  I know that may be sobering news to some and it doesn't help the situation but people should either take the situation for what it is and see a resolution for it through to the end or move on.  Griping is pointless.

If you really understand the frustration we have, really.... then you would not write the way you do. I own products from a few manufacturers and follow a few others. Common for these is the they all have customer focus. Devialet has, so far, failed here. They may have valid reasons and also reasons that must be kept within the company, but a complete lack of communication, or even worse, what can be interpreted as lies, is not a good thing. With a customer base like Devialet has, one should think they would listen to their customers, but they do not, it seems.
For the opposite  check Roon, JRiver, Jplay, Acourate, Sonore, Uptone and others.
I do not know how long you've owned a Devialet amp. If that coincides with your registration at this forum much of the frustration has roots long before that.  Griping? I do not think so

[marcor]

All bias and arguments apart, I think that communicating a closing window for the upgrade and not respecting it is not a small thing. To put this in proper context let's see what are the options now we new update.
We haven't seen and we haven't got any specific on the new streaming board, still we have been offered for a given time to update our gear. I have a d250 (upgrade from the d-premier) and I am lucky enough to get air through ethernet working. As whole I would be happy without upgrading again, so I could skip this new upgrade, however I could be interested in the new streaming board if it opens, for example, a better compatibility with Roon. So in a "normal" world I would wait the release of the new streaming board and decide at that point to upgrade or not. I would accept to pay a little bit more for the upgrade as I am not an early adopter. But in "Devialet world" I still don't know how long the upgrade will be open for and/or if this closing window is a real one or, as history teaches us, not.
As you can see in the specific we are talking about more than 4,000 euros decision based on a bet due to lack of communication.
Even more, until the announcement of the update I was thinking to upgrade and buy a companion and move to an 800. After this débâcle of announcement I am happy that I didn't act because the situation is completely unclear and putting another 10,000 euros without knowing what will happen would be a insane.

[Confused]

OK - I do not want to get involved with any forum arguments. However, one thing strikes me about some of the recent posts, in particular Antoine's comments regarding the time limits announced for previous upgrades. At the Oxford Audio event last week, were told that the D800 upgrade program would run (or was it would 'probably' run?) from September to December. OK, taking this at face value, it is a case of the upgrade program only running for a limited period, due maybe to commercial reasons, or practical supply reasons, or whatever. Being cynical, it could be taken as simply one of the oldest salesman lines in the book, 'buy now while stocks last', which prays on the psychology of the buyer, replacing dithering, caution, thinking time etc. with a rapid decision to buy.

Perhaps in our new era of clear and open communication with Devialet, this will soon be clarified?

[Antoine]

I'm removing myself from the discussion here. Concluding with a quote of Devialet's CEO: "But I know you expect the best from us, and you should." So there it is.

Original text here, in the Petition topic: http://devialetchat.com/showthread.php?t...4#pid45404

[Confused]

All bias and arguments apart, I think that communicating a closing window for the upgrade and not respecting it is not a small thing. To put this in proper context let's see what are the options now we new update.
We haven't seen and we haven't got any specific on the new streaming board, still we have been offered for a given time to update our gear. I have a d250 (upgrade from the d-premier) and I am lucky enough to get air through ethernet working. As whole I would be happy without upgrading again, so I could skip this new upgrade, however I could be interested in the new streaming board if it opens, for example, a better compatibility with Roon. So in a "normal" world I would wait the release of the new streaming board and decide at that point to upgrade or not. I would accept to pay a little bit more for the upgrade as I am not an early adopter.  But in "Devialet world" I still don't know how long the upgrade will be open for and/or if this closing window is a real one or, as history teaches us, not.
As you can see in the specific we are talking about more than 4,000 euros decision based on a bet due to lack of communication.
Even more, until the announcement of the update I was thinking to upgrade and buy a companion and move to an 800. After this débâcle of announcement I am happy that I didn't act because the situation is completely unclear and putting another 10,000 euros without knowing what will happen would be a insane.

Yep - For the upgrade, 'buy now before the end of 2016 or miss out', for the streamer board 'we will advise the specifications in some time in 2017'.  Oddly enough, I am not too bothered about this!  For me, the decision to go for the upgrade will be based purely on if I think the amplifier sound quality hike justifies the cost.  But for those seriously interested in the new streamer aspect of the upgrade, it is a bit crazy.

[MightyMart]

OK - I do not want to get involved with any forum arguments.  However, one thing strikes me about some of the recent posts, in particular Antoine's comments regarding the time limits announced for previous upgrades.  At the Oxford Audio event last week, were told that the D800 upgrade program would run (or was it would 'probably' run?) from September to December.  OK, taking this at face value, it is a case of the upgrade program only running for a limited period, due maybe to commercial reasons, or practical supply reasons, or whatever.  Being cynical, it could be taken as simply one of the oldest salesman lines in the book, 'buy now while stocks last', which prays on the psychology of the buyer, replacing dithering, caution, thinking time etc. with a rapid decision to buy.

Perhaps in our new era of clear and open communication with Devialet, this will soon be clarified?

I was actually promised by my dealer that the upgrade window would not be closed by the end of the year. Instead he promised me that it will still be open under at least 2017. Maybe this is just another rumor that adds to the general confusion, but he runs one of the leading hifi stores in Europe and have been dealing with Devialet since the days of D-Premier. He also adviced me not to make any rushed decisions and wait for the launch of the finished product. It really does sound like he knows something we don't and that we will all be very surprised and happy with the end result after this grueling wait...

[RebelMan]

If you really understand the frustration we have, really.... then you would not write the way you do. I own products from a few manufacturers and follow a few others. Common for these is the they all have customer focus. Devialet has, so far,  failed here. They may have valid reasons and also reasons that must be kept within the company, but a complete lack of communication, or even worse, what can be interpreted as lies, is not a good thing. With a customer base like Devialet has, one should think they would listen to their customers, but they do not, it seems.
For the opposite  check Roon, JRiver, Jplay, Acourate, Sonore, Uptone and others.

Quite the opposite actually, I write the way I do because of it.  

I have been in this hobby for a long time (since I was 16), long enough to dream for THAT system and to have that dream come true.  I finally had the opportunity to buy my first “high-end” system.  For me it has always been about high-performance but in this case high-end also meant "audio jewelry".    

I purchased in $50,000 U.S. retail dollars a CD player, a DVD player, a pre-amplifier, two surround sound processors, two mono-block amplifiers, one two-channel amplifier and one multi-channel amplifier over the course of about two years from the same well established, well funded, well respected high-performance, high-end brand name company.  Save for the mono-blocks every one of these components had issues, EVERY SINGLE ONE!!!   

Everything that could go wrong did go wrong from product delays to missing capabilities to malfunctioning software to failed hardware like optical drives to dead amplifier channels to blown component parts like relay switches and such.  Each time my system had a hardware issue it was down from weeks to months at a time.  In some cases the equipment had to go in for repairs more than once as it did with one of the SSPs which had a display that failed TWICE.  Moreover, when the software didn't work there were no temporary work arounds in most cases.  You had to wait until an update was released and that often took many months to years and even then when you got the update to fix the problems you had something else would break, albeit less minor but still.  

Later when one of my friends’ CD player's optical drive completely failed the company could not provide a solution to his problem.  Why?  Because the company that manufactured the drives stopped producing them and since the company no longer had stock to replace the drive there was nothing they could do.  They couldn't retrofit a different manufacturer’s  drive either because the control board was designed for that specific make and model.  They would have to develop a whole new control board for which then was a discontinued player and we all knew that wasn’t gonna happen.  Unfortunately, the company couldn’t just offer to replace the player either because they stopped producing them altogether.  So after several years of putting up with plagued software and then later an irreplaceable hardware component my friend was left with an $5000 boat anchor that was now worth virtually nothing!!!  

It isn’t always greener on the other side either.  The issues I had to deal with were no different from the stories that other people had with the products they owed from other similar brand name companies.  Ironically, my $250 mass market receiver has been virtually flawless so why would I put up with all these problems?  Easy, sound, I want the absolute sound.  But is it worth it?  Is it really worth going through all these problems and would it be worth going through all over again?  You bet it is.  I would do it all over again, in a heart beat!

So when I see people going ape over a convenience feature (aka AIR) that doesn’t work as smoothly as it should I think these people don’t have a clue what a real problem is.  Not having AIR work is not loosing sound quality.  Not having AIR work is not having your system dead in the water.  Not having AIR work is not loosing your investment.  Not having AIR work is an inconvenience and that my friends is all!

ogs

I do not know how long you've owned a Devialet amp. If that coincides with your registration at this forum much of the frustration has roots long before that.  Griping? I do not think so.

I have been following Devialet since the beginning but I had little interest in what they had because my requirements at the time were different than they are now or were a few years ago.  My first hands on with Devialet came in 2014 and I had plans to become an owner that year but the dealer and I couldn't come to an agreement.  Later they stopped carrying the brand and I solicited a friend for references.  He was unable to help me at the time but then about a year later he could.  I have technically been an owner since last year but I have been a visitor to this forum since 2014.    

[thumb5]

So when I see people going ape over a convenience feature (aka AIR) that doesn’t work as smoothly as it should I think these people don’t have a clue what a real problem is.  Not having AIR work is not loosing sound quality.  Not having AIR work is not having your system dead in the water.  Not having AIR work is not loosing your investment.  Not having AIR work is an inconvenience and that my friends is all!

I'm sorry to rise to the bait again (I should know better), but how on earth can you presume to judge what capabilities are important to other people?  It may be just a convenience feature for you, but for others it may have been a primary reason for buying the amplifier.  And for some, AIR not working may indeed render their system "dead in the water".