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Devialet's newest technology...?
Here is Devialet's response to my question about best sound in the world...

"Dear Christopher,

Phantom is actually different than the rest of the line. It is a sound center, and in that way possess the best sound ever for a sound center. You will find all the available informations on Phantom and Dialog in the attached document.

Phantom can actually be linked to the existing line via Dialog.

The existing line is more modulable than Phantom as you can add every equipment you want, equipment such as speakers (with SAM), CD player or else.

Best regards,
Roger"


So now they say, "Best sound ever for a sound center". Sounds a little more sane!!

I am very excited about getting the Phantoms in my system. But I need to sell a 400 and buy another 250 before I insert any Phantoms in my world.

Very exciting stuff even through the hyperbolic marketing!!
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(26-Dec-2014, 15:06)f1eng Wrote:
(25-Dec-2014, 23:13)Music or sound Wrote: I am curious about the driver technology used in the Phantom but I have not seen anything except the the slogan "heart bass implosion". I can see Devialet's expertise in amplification and DSP allowing them to design an excellent active speaker but the claim of zero distortion is difficult for me to understand. I have not seen any woofers (or sub) with distortion levels below 1% at frequencies under 80Hz or so. Feed back or more like with Devialet feed forward speaker correction can correct electric driver behavior and therefore reduce distortion but mechano acoustic behavior of drivers and box can not be eliminated just through DSP.

The mechano-acoustics errors of the entire driver/enclosure are part of what is measured in producing a SAM correction so is indeed included in SAM.
As long as there is enough DSP to run the inverted transfer function of the speaker error in real time all of the faults in the speaker behaviour measured by the SAM procedure will be compensated for (not eliminated). Since the measurements include the audio output, all the errors are compensated for.
As far as I can understand it DSP can correct for some types of distortion but not all.
Let's assume that the signal is 100Hz and its overtone of 200 Hz. Any error in timing and level between these frequencies can be corrected through DSP like SAM if one knows the system. It also could correct for different behaviors at different absolut levels.
If that signal causes also some enclosure vibrations at 300Hz (enclosure and membrane vibratios are chaotic in nature and not necessarily idential to the stimulating frequency)any correction at 300Hz would not be effective as the signal does not contain 300Hz.
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(26-Dec-2014, 22:56)Christopher W. Wrote: Here is Devialet's response to my question about best sound in the world...

"Dear Christopher,

Phantom is actually different than the rest of the line. It is a sound center, and in that way possess the best sound ever for a sound center.


So now they say, "Best sound ever for a sound center". Sounds a little more sane

This makes far more sense, better than Sonos or Naim muso sounds easily believable.
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(26-Dec-2014, 22:56)Christopher W. Wrote: Phantom can actually be linked to the existing line via Dialog.

I wonder why one would ever want to do that? In this set up, what would one get out of one's 200/250/etc? I understand that the Phantoms receive the digital stream, which they convert to analog, amplify and play.
JRiver MC20 --> Devialet 250 Expert Pro --> KEF Blades II
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(27-Dec-2014, 01:15)Music or sound Wrote: As far as I can understand it DSP can correct for some types of distortion but not all.
Let's assume that the signal is 100Hz and its overtone of 200 Hz. Any error in timing and level between these frequencies can be corrected through DSP like SAM if one knows the system. It also could correct for different behaviors at different absolut levels.
If that signal causes also some enclosure vibrations at 300Hz (enclosure and membrane vibratios are chaotic in nature and not necessarily idential to the stimulating frequency)any correction at 300Hz would not be effective as the signal does not contain 300Hz.

Do you know what the transfer function of an error is?

Cabinet excitation would be included along with everything else.

It is possible that the error transfer function is so complex that the inverted version of it can not be multiplied by the input signal in real time but since much of the impetus in the production of the second generation models was this capability I would imagine they fitted plenty of DSP power.

The excitation of cabinet by drive units is complex but entirely predictable. 200Hz won't excite 300Hz at a high level anywhere BTW, but if it did that output would be included in the transfer function and when inverted and multiplied by the input would cancel it.
Even if the sound is coming from the cabinet the correct amount of out-of-phase sound from the drive unit would cancel it at the listening position.

This is a clever application of maths.

Noise cancellation uses similar technology.
Devialet Original d'Atelier 44 Core, Job Pre/225, Goldmund PH2, Goldmund Reference/T3f /Ortofon A90, Goldmund Mimesis 36+ & Chord Blu, iMac/Air, Lynx Theta, Tune Audio Anima, Goldmund Epilog 1&2, REL Studio. Dialog, Silver Phantoms, Branch stands, copper cables (mainly).
Oxfordshire

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(27-Dec-2014, 16:38)AlexS Wrote:
(26-Dec-2014, 22:56)Christopher W. Wrote: Phantom can actually be linked to the existing line via Dialog.

I wonder why one would ever want to do that? In this set up, what would one get out of one's 200/250/etc? I understand that the Phantoms receive the digital stream, which they convert to analog, amplify and play.

I am not sure I understand your question..

But as I had stated, I want to add a pre/pro for multi-channel. Send the mains signal to 250/800 and send the center, rear to Phantoms via the Dialogue. I am not even sure this is possible but that is what I am hoping for.

This would only be for multi-channel. When I want to listen to music I would be playing 2 channel straight from the 250/800.
Pink Faun STREAMER 2.12 Control PC + Windows 10 + Roon >
Pink Faun STREAMER 2.12 Audio PC + Linux + HQ Player + Optimized for I2S + USB >
Lampizator Golden Gate DSD512 > Dartzeel NHB-108 Model One > TAD Evolution One


For Sale-Fibonnaci Technologies Vaya! Ribbon Transducers / For Sale-JL Audio F112 






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(27-Dec-2014, 16:38)AlexS Wrote:
(26-Dec-2014, 22:56)Christopher W. Wrote: Phantom can actually be linked to the existing line via Dialog.

I wonder why one would ever want to do that? In this set up, what would one get out of one's 200/250/etc? I understand that the Phantoms receive the digital stream, which they convert to analog, amplify and play.

Presumably to listen to other sources? I'm quite happy with my setup at the moment, but I could see a scenario that involved phantoms around the house, a D250 in my main listening room and all controlled by Dialog/Spark.

Very reassured that they have qualified their claim about it being the best sound ever.
Devialet 1000 Pro. Martin Logan Montis, Michell Gyrodec, Melco N1ZH, Mutec MC3+ USB
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I think many of us have been hooked by the hype, I can't wait for some decent reviews or a proper audition myself. Will be May before the dealers have them, so best to forget about for a while and enjoy our "expert" systems?
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(27-Dec-2014, 17:32)f1eng Wrote:
(27-Dec-2014, 01:15)Music or sound Wrote: As far as I can understand it DSP can correct for some types of distortion but not all.
Let's assume that the signal is 100Hz and its overtone of 200 Hz. Any error in timing and level between these frequencies can be corrected through DSP like SAM if one knows the system. It also could correct for different behaviors at different absolut levels.
If that signal causes also some enclosure vibrations at 300Hz (enclosure and membrane vibratios are chaotic in nature and not necessarily idential to the stimulating frequency)any correction at 300Hz would not be effective as the signal does not contain 300Hz.

Do you know what the transfer function of an error is?

Cabinet excitation would be included along with everything else.

It is possible that the error transfer function is so complex that the inverted version of it can not be multiplied by the input signal in real time but since much of the impetus in the production of the second generation models was this capability I would imagine they fitted plenty of DSP power.

The excitation of cabinet by drive units is complex but entirely predictable. 200Hz won't excite 300Hz at a high level anywhere BTW, but if it did that output would be included in the transfer function and when inverted and multiplied by the input would cancel it.
Even if the sound is coming from the cabinet the correct amount of out-of-phase sound from the drive unit would cancel it at the listening position.

This is a clever application of maths.

Noise cancellation uses similar technology.
I understand the princles of digital noise reduction and it could applied here. But what there is also some 300Hz signal even not in phase to the other signal. That correction of the first signal would distort the second one. One other problem is a time delay between primary signal and secondary distortion. Of course one can model that but eventually it would lead to infite complexity. I am courious to listen to one of these Phantoms!
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I wonder if their remote and dialog controller will overcome a huge issue for me, seeing the display..the remote has a display and hopefully this will display everything that's on my d premier screen

As to DSP speaker correction etc.. There is nothing like 0 distortion..I think the outlandish claims are based on the AHD chip..which has specs that are 1000x better than most and has , to all intents and purposes, no distortion.
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