Digital to Digital Converters with Devialet - New products

[Confused]

I can see a trend in this thread, I post that something looks interesting, then I do more detailed research, then I post about the issues with the thing that looked tempting in the first place.

In this regard, I have to give credit to @hardcore . who seems to always be one step ahead of me!

Anyway, since my last post I have slogged my way through an epic 100 page thread on Head-Fi discussing the Gustard U16. The thread starts positively with some very favourable listening reports, describing pretty much exactly what I am looking for with respect to sound quality. It is not all good though, we then get a number of reports regarding firmware issues, clicks, stuttering, problems with certain file rates. I move forward through the thread to posts that are now about 1 year old, there are some posts discussing firmware updates that unfortunately do not solve the issues. Ever the optimist, I am thinking that I have one year left of posts to read through, and the firmware issues will eventually be solved. But no, all the way to July 2020, no firmware updates over the last year (sound familiar?), and the issues remain.

OK - I could try one and hope it works for me, but there are a number of posts describing issues with 24/192 material using the Gustard U16 with an sMS-200Ultra Neo, the same device I will want to use it with. So basically an non starter for me, I do not need the hassle.

I shall be keeping an eye out for developments, but it does not look promising. As @hardcore eludes to above, the Gustard uses an unusual ES8620 USB interface, this seems to be the problem area. By unusual, I cannot find any evidence that anyone else uses this interface! It does not look promising....

I also read though a lot of stuff on the Singxer SU-2. based purely on the listening reports of others, I suspect this will take my system in the opposite direction to what I am looking for. Indeed, I read one report comparing to the Mutec MC3+USB, and I concluded that of the two I would much rather have the Mutec. Which is nice, as I already have one.

Indeed, after reading about firmware issues with the Gustard, reliability issues and poor measurements from GD-Audio, and so on, I have come to realise what a great little box the MC3+USB actually is. Consider that I have had not one issue with it, ever. Never a click, never a stutter, never a drop out. It sounds good too!

OK - It is shame the Mutec cannot do the DSD64 via AES/EBU thing that I wanted to try. That itch will have to wait, but meanwhile I could try running DSD64 via USB for a while, why not?

[Confused]

As an update to the above I had sent a question to the Gustard support email address, just as a double check of the sMS-200 / 24/192 issue.  I received a reply within a few hours:

hi friend,
It's really not compatible
so sorry let you waiting so long time
have a nice day

So, it looks like it will not work and will not be fixed any time soon!  I have to give Gustard some credit for a straightforward answer to my query.  I was very clear in my email that I was a potential purchaser, they basically replied "don't buy it".

As idle speculation, I am wondering if Gustard made a bit of a mistake using the ES8620 USB interface and if a similar model with an alternative interface might appear some time in the future?  Meanwhile, the U16 looks a little flawed at the moment.

I also note a recent post on AS, someone has just received his Audio-GD DI-20HE and is planning a comparison with his current Gustard U16.  I shall watch that one with interest, but meanwhile bask in the delights of my Mutec MC3+USB.

[ray1234]

I know this is an old topic, but just in case someone is still interested .....

I tried the Denafrips Iris. I am using Expert 400, previously using Ethernet Air fed through Windows 10 PC. The Iris beats Air completely. The 'thinness' in violin and mid range previously with Air is completely gone and bass is deeper and better.

I haven't got my AES digital cable yet, so I am just connecting to Expert 400 using coaxial out from Iris with a Cardas AES to coaxial connector into Expert 400, I am sure things will still improve with a proper AES digital cable.

[hardcore]

I know this is an old topic, but just in case someone is still interested .....

I tried the Denafrips Iris. I am using Expert 400, previously using Ethernet Air fed through Windows 10 PC. The Iris beats Air completely. The 'thinness' in violin and mid range previously with Air is completely gone and bass is deeper and better.

I haven't got my AES digital cable yet, so I am just connecting to Expert 400 using coaxial out from Iris with a Cardas AES to coaxial connector into Expert 400, I am sure things will still improve with a proper AES digital cable.

Very cool. Did u ever compare it to a Singxer SU-6 or the Audio-Gd DI20HE?

I'm using the SU-6 now and was tempted by the Denafrips Gaia. But in my experience even with these DDCs, the accessories like USB input, PSU etc still make a huge difference. Sometimes more than the converter itself.

Leads me to believe a lot of the sound is affected by things like ground loops etc.

BTW, I highly recommend trying the IFI iDefender with a clean 5V PSU at your Streamer or PC source.

[ray1234]

Very cool. Did u ever compare it to a Singxer SU-6 or the Audio-Gd DI20HE?

I'm using the SU-6 now and was tempted by the Denafrips Gaia. But in my experience even with these DDCs, the accessories like USB input, PSU etc still make a huge difference. Sometimes more than the converter itself.

Leads me to believe a lot of the sound is affected by things like ground loops etc.

BTW, I highly recommend trying the IFI iDefender with a clean 5V PSU at your Streamer or PC source.

I haven't personally compared, but I have read from another forum that SU-6 performs about the same as Denafrips Gaia, so I guess there is no upgrade for you to go over to Gaia unless you need the extra input connections. I actually asked the vendor the performance difference between the Gaia and Iris, he said the Gaia is probably still a little bit better for USB, but the difference may not be huge.

The Iris is cheap, even cheaper than my AES cable, so give it a try if anyone is still using Air. The only downside is you will need 3 extra cables, a power cable, a good USB cable and a good AES cable, the cost of these cables is going to be more expensive than the Iris.

I have tried, both the USB and AES cable still makes a huge difference to the sound even using these re-clockers, so can't save on those items ...

[Confused]

An interesting video, with a rather surprising conclusion from the comparisons:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jvu_doQfAI0

[hardcore]

An interesting video, with a rather surprising conclusion from the comparisons:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jvu_doQfAI0

Watched this video too. Very good explanation of why DDCs make a difference. It's frustrating when looking at people claiming they made 'measurements' that show no difference, when we know from experience there is a difference, and there is actually pretty solid science behind it. This guy does a good job explaining why.

Also interesting comparison with the Pi2AES. Pi2AES looks like a great 'streamer'. However I also use my Devialet for watching movies and playing games from my PC, so I still need USB for those - I might use the SU-6 with Optical for galvanic isolation to not affect the Devialet while not in use, and for pure music listening maybe try a Pi2AES.

But the SU-6 sounds great already for my USB source, and the built-in Air in the Devialet sounds great too, especially over WiFi (vs the Ethernet cable as another source of ground loop noise). Not sure if I'll feel that urge to experiment with a Pi2AES yet.

[Confused]

There was some interest earlier in this thread for the Audio-GD DI-20HE. Some of that interest was from myself, but I lost interest when I discovered that some other Audio GD products had some of the worst measurements that I had seen for a while. OK, I had not seen measurements for the Audio-GD DI-20 itself, but in the absence of this you can only base your view on whatever information is available.

The situation has changed somewhat, thanks to the GoldenSound review linked below.

https://goldensound.audio/2021/07/22/aud...surements/

I will admit that I am very surprised by this review, but surprised in a very good way. Good to see.

Mindful that many of us have found that Devialet Experts / Pro's seem to respond very nicely to a decent AES/EBU input, the Audio-GD DI-20HE suddenly becomes a very interesting product.

That said, note the comment at the end of the review that the noise level is low, but not quite as good as the PI2AES or iFi ZEN Stream.

[ggt667]

Which options are there with Expert Pro without any extra boxes? Is there a way to copy the signal digitally? Directly over ethernet or USB, i e
Let's say a vinyl played through an Expert Pro should be possible to convert to DSD512 directly somehow, no? Do we as consumers have access to tap into the already digitized signal of the device?

[chrisc]

A Devialet will give you a digital signal from a vinyl record, but the maximum resolution you can get is 24 bit 192KHz.

This article explains it quite well - https://help.nativedsd.com/en/articles/3...ed-and-why