Dual mono with REL Subwoofer

[PeppaPig]

I’m also using a Dspeaker device to apply ‘room correction’ to the subwoofer output. In my case it’s the AntiMode 2.0 Dual Core connected to the pre-out of the Devialet and the sub then connected to the analog outputs of the AntiMode.

I agree with sam1000 it’s a very effective and easy to use ‘tool’ to flatten the response and avoid the big peaks. It won’t fill up dips due to cancellations as that is fysically impossible but it will give one more freedom in subwoofer placement e.g. in a corner or near walls.

Years ago I made a picture of a before and after, it’s here: https://devialetchat.com/Thread-Antoine-...390#pid390

But there’s many forms of DSP of course, both software or hardware based. One could also use REW like sam1000 mentioned to create convolution filters and apply these in Roon for example.

Hi Antoine,


My REL is using High Level input, so I guess I can just connect to the speaker posts on Devialet to the AntiMode Input?
Do you guys from after using AntiMode, it become less bass? I heard some people report that issue. And also some people said it introduced delay, do you hear it?

The AntiMode 2.0 dual core version, isn't its for stereo speaker room correction? but you use it for sub-woofer? or its multi-purpose?

Thanks.

[Antoine]

I’m also using a Dspeaker device to apply ‘room correction’ to the subwoofer output. In my case it’s the AntiMode 2.0 Dual Core connected to the pre-out of the Devialet and the sub then connected to the analog outputs of the AntiMode.

I agree with sam1000 it’s a very effective and easy to use ‘tool’ to flatten the response and avoid the big peaks. It won’t fill up dips due to cancellations as that is fysically impossible but it will give one more freedom in subwoofer placement e.g. in a corner or near walls.

Years ago I made a picture of a before and after, it’s here: https://devialetchat.com/Thread-Antoine-...390#pid390

But there’s many forms of DSP of course, both software or hardware based. One could also use REW like sam1000 mentioned to create convolution filters and apply these in Roon for example.

Hi Antoine,


My REL is using High Level input, so I guess I can just connect to the speaker posts on Devialet to the AntiMode Input?
Do you guys from after using AntiMode, it become less bass? I heard some people report that issue. And also some people said it introduced delay, do you hear it?

The AntiMode 2.0 dual core version, isn't its for stereo speaker room correction? but you use it for sub-woofer? or its multi-purpose?

Thanks.

Hi Peppapig,

The Anti-modes are for low level connections only so using the pre-out on the Devialet.

They even out the bass response which can be problematic in many rooms. The graph sam1000 showed on the previous page isn’t very unusual. I’d say many people will find similar graphs when they measure their system/room response. Of course when one is used to high peaks initially the sound can appear to be lean but it isn’t when one also corrects the volume to integrate with the main speakers and of the course the sub is powerful enough to pressurize the room and in the right location. One can also ‘tailor’ the sound to their tastes after correction, it’s very common to apply a so called ‘house curve’ to the bass because our ears are less sensitive to the lower frequencies.

Correct, any DSP introduces delay. One can correct for that btw in the Devialet. It isn’t something I’ve heard though it is still on my list to address one day. It isn’t easy to measure that and I’ve found many, sometimes contradicting, techniques to measure it. Since it never bothered me I haven’t made it a high priority but I do know there’s room for improvement there. 

The Dual Core is multi-purpose. See also: http://www.dspeaker.com/en/products/20-dual-core.shtml

[PeppaPig]

I’m also using a Dspeaker device to apply ‘room correction’ to the subwoofer output. In my case it’s the AntiMode 2.0 Dual Core connected to the pre-out of the Devialet and the sub then connected to the analog outputs of the AntiMode.

I agree with sam1000 it’s a very effective and easy to use ‘tool’ to flatten the response and avoid the big peaks. It won’t fill up dips due to cancellations as that is fysically impossible but it will give one more freedom in subwoofer placement e.g. in a corner or near walls.

Years ago I made a picture of a before and after, it’s here: https://devialetchat.com/Thread-Antoine-...390#pid390

But there’s many forms of DSP of course, both software or hardware based. One could also use REW like sam1000 mentioned to create convolution filters and apply these in Roon for example.

Hi Antoine,


My REL is using High Level input, so I guess I can just connect to the speaker posts on Devialet to the AntiMode Input?
Do you guys from after using AntiMode, it become less bass? I heard some people report that issue. And also some people said it introduced delay, do you hear it?

The AntiMode 2.0 dual core version, isn't its for stereo speaker room correction? but you use it for sub-woofer? or its multi-purpose?

Thanks.

Hi Peppapig,

The Anti-modes are for low level connections only so using the pre-out on the Devialet.

They even out the bass response which can be problematic in many rooms. The graph sam1000 showed on the previous page isn’t very unusual. I’d say many people will find similar graphs when they measure their system/room response. Of course when one is used to high peaks initially the sound can appear to be lean but it isn’t when one also corrects the volume to integrate with the main speakers and of the course the sub is powerful enough to pressurize the room and in the right location. One can also ‘tailor’ the sound to their tastes after correction, it’s very common to apply a so called ‘house curve’ to the bass because our ears are less sensitive to the lower frequencies.

Correct, any DSP introduces delay. One can correct for that btw in the Devialet. It isn’t something I’ve heard though it is still on my list to address one day. It isn’t easy to measure that and I’ve found many, sometimes contradicting, techniques to measure it. Since it never bothered me I haven’t made it a high priority but I do know there’s room for improvement there. 

The Dual Core is multi-purpose. See also: http://www.dspeaker.com/en/products/20-dual-core.shtml

Thanks Antoine,

My REL are both using high level inputs, and I found it integrate with my main speaker really well when I moved it away from the wall and about 2cm behind the main speaker. No boomy at all, it makes music sound much thicker, border/fuller, so I can listen to it for a much longer period.

I probably won’t give up the high level input, I just upgraded the high level cables which costed me a bit of money, if I swap to low level for AntiMode it’s a big waste for me. But still, thanks for sharing it, one day I will try it out in my second system with AntiMode.

[Dan]

Question for @Antoine or others. I see your system lists 'analog' cables between the Devialet and Anti-Mode. Is this a pair of interconnects? Or just one cable? I am considering adding 2 RELs or another brand of subs to my 1000 Pro and have wondered if I use the A-M 8033S should it be a single cable from each amp to each 8033S or 2 cables (left/right)? If a single cable I'll need a total of 4 cables and if it is L/R then I'll need 8 cables. I am going to try both the Hi Level input and the Lo Level and see which sounds best. I have read that having a pair of cables to each sub may sound better under the Lo Level approach. 

Obviously if I go the Hi Level approach - the A-M 8033S isn't part of the equation.

Dan

[PeppaPig]

Question for @Antoine or others. I see your system lists 'analog' cables between the Devialet and Anti-Mode. Is this a pair of interconnects? Or just one cable? I am considering adding 2 RELs or another brand of subs to my 1000 Pro and have wondered if I use the A-M 8033S should it be a single cable from each amp to each 8033S or 2 cables (left/right)? If a single cable I'll need a total of 4 cables and if it is L/R then I'll need 8 cables. I am going to try both the Hi Level input and the Lo Level and see which sounds best. I have read that having a pair of cables to each sub may sound better under the Lo Level approach. 

Obviously if I go the Hi Level approach - the A-M 8033S isn't part of the equation.

Dan

People said AM doesn’t work with High Level Inputs, not sure why. My REL so far gives me happy bass so I am not adding a AM to my system yet.

[Antoine]

Hi Antoine,


My REL is using High Level input, so I guess I can just connect to the speaker posts on Devialet to the AntiMode Input?
Do you guys from after using AntiMode, it become less bass? I heard some people report that issue. And also some people said it introduced delay, do you hear it?

The AntiMode 2.0 dual core version, isn't its for stereo speaker room correction? but you use it for sub-woofer? or its multi-purpose?

Thanks.

Hi Peppapig,

The Anti-modes are for low level connections only so using the pre-out on the Devialet.

They even out the bass response which can be problematic in many rooms. The graph sam1000 showed on the previous page isn’t very unusual. I’d say many people will find similar graphs when they measure their system/room response. Of course when one is used to high peaks initially the sound can appear to be lean but it isn’t when one also corrects the volume to integrate with the main speakers and of the course the sub is powerful enough to pressurize the room and in the right location. One can also ‘tailor’ the sound to their tastes after correction, it’s very common to apply a so called ‘house curve’ to the bass because our ears are less sensitive to the lower frequencies.

Correct, any DSP introduces delay. One can correct for that btw in the Devialet. It isn’t something I’ve heard though it is still on my list to address one day. It isn’t easy to measure that and I’ve found many, sometimes contradicting, techniques to measure it. Since it never bothered me I haven’t made it a high priority but I do know there’s room for improvement there. 

The Dual Core is multi-purpose. See also: http://www.dspeaker.com/en/products/20-dual-core.shtml

Thanks Antoine,

My REL are both using high level inputs, and I found it integrate with my main speaker really well when I moved it away from the wall and about 2cm behind the main speaker. No boomy at all, it makes music sound much thicker, border/fuller, so I can listen to it for a much longer period.

I probably won’t give up the high level input, I just upgraded the high level cables which costed me a bit of money, if I swap to low level for AntiMode it’s a big waste for me. But still, thanks for sharing it, one day I will try it out in my second system with AntiMode.

I fully understand! No problem of course, I’m not trying to sell anything here.

Question for @Antoine or others. I see your system lists 'analog' cables between the Devialet and Anti-Mode. Is this a pair of interconnects? Or just one cable? I am considering adding 2 RELs or another brand of subs to my 1000 Pro and have wondered if I use the A-M 8033S should it be a single cable from each amp to each 8033S or 2 cables (left/right)? If a single cable I'll need a total of 4 cables and if it is L/R then I'll need 8 cables. I am going to try both the Hi Level input and the Lo Level and see which sounds best. I have read that having a pair of cables to each sub may sound better under the Lo Level approach. 

Obviously if I go the Hi Level approach - the A-M 8033S isn't part of the equation.

Dan

I’m using a stereo pair of Nordost Heimdall between my Devialet and my Anti-Mode DC2.0 and connected two subwoofer cables (separate mono versions) in my system as someone here once mentioned it sounded better in his system. I started with mono links but wanted to try and couldn’t hear any difference in mine but was too lazy to remove the two cables and reconfigure again.

Most, if not all, subs accept a single ‘mono’ connection so I think you can save the extra four cables. However I’m not sure if you can configure two mono outs in the Devialet configurator. I have a single Devialet and single sub so this is unknown territory for me personally.

I’ve found Dspeaker support very helpful in the past so I’d check with them for sure for the Anti-Mode connections or perhaps someone else will chime in here.

[Laura]

It’s been a few weeks since I posted on this thread and said that I would report back after the REL open day I attended. 

The open day was at Nintronics in Welwyn Garden City with Rob from REL present to do the demonstrations. They had two REL No.25 subwoofers paired with Focal Maestro Utopia Evo III speakers for the Hifi demo and not surprisingly it sounded great. Even with these £45K speakers the subs added detail to the music across the whole frequency range plus the expected low end extension. The effect was subtle but instantly noticeable with sub on / off listening.

With special trade in deals to be had on the day it was easy to get carried away. I went there with the intention of possibly buying one sub but after hearing them in action I wanted the stereo pair. The No.25 is massive and I’d struggle to fit one beside my speakers let alone two, not to mention the fact that they cost £6.5K each so after a lot of procrastination I opted for two of the reference line G1 Mk2 which I reckoned I could just about fit in. So I traded in an old pair of Castle speakers and the deal was done. Over the next few days I started to have purchase regret and asked myself what the hell I was doing? But I decided to hold on and see if these would make much difference to my my system. 

About a week later Danny from Nintronics and Rob from REL turned up at my house to do the install. Rob recommended using the pre-outs on the back of the Devialets so I did the configuration for this but at first we couldn’t get it working. After a bit of head scratching it turned out that if you program the Tone button on the Devialet remote control for Sub On/Off it doesn’t work properly and we were getting odd results like one sub would work and the other would not. After changing this setting to Pre On/Off instead the second sub burst into life. I found this a bit odd and was also surprised at how little ‘help’ information in the configurator and on the Devialet website there seems to be for setting up subs, particularly if you are configuring a dual setup. Once we had solved this technical issue I left it up to the REL expert to position the subs for me and set the phase, crossovers, and levels. I was surprised how little adjustment was needed in the positioning to make a huge difference to the sound in the listening position. A couple of centimetres at a time made all the difference. As my system is now dual purpose Hifi and Home Theatre we tested the configuration in both modes and it seems that Rob got it just right. The installation was supposed to take about an hour but in reality it took more like 4 until Rob was happy with the setup and I was too. 

That evening I decided to give them the proper Hifi test to see if it had all been worth the expense and hassle and what I experienced was very surprising. The whole musical experience was transformed throughout the entire frequency range, the soundstage was increased massively around the whole room with much better imaging. Instruments and voices were all much more lifelike, warmer, and there was detail on the recordings that I had never heard before! It is hard to put into words how much better these subs make the entire experience and can only say of all the Hifi gear I’ve bought over the last 20 years nothing has had such a profound effect on my system as adding these 2 subwoofers. Needless to say the purchase regret has vanished. I have no idea how these can affect mid and high end sounds but they do and my system now sounds amazing and puts a big grin on my face every time I listen to it!

[Jean-Marie]

It’s been a few weeks since I posted on this thread and said that I would report back after the REL open day I attended. 

The open day was at Nintronics in Welwyn Garden City with Rob from REL present to do the demonstrations. They had two REL No.25 subwoofers paired with Focal Maestro Utopia Evo III speakers for the Hifi demo and not surprisingly it sounded great. Even with these £45K speakers the subs added detail to the music across the whole frequency range plus the expected low end extension. The effect was subtle but instantly noticeable with sub on / off listening.

With special trade in deals to be had on the day it was easy to get carried away. I went there with the intention of possibly buying one sub but after hearing them in action I wanted the stereo pair. The No.25 is massive and I’d struggle to fit one beside my speakers let alone two, not to mention the fact that they cost £6.5K each so after a lot of procrastination I opted for two of the reference line G1 Mk2 which I reckoned I could just about fit in. So I traded in an old pair of Castle speakers and the deal was done. Over the next few days I started to have purchase regret and asked myself what the hell I was doing? But I decided to hold on and see if these would make much difference to my my system. 

About a week later Danny from Nintronics and Rob from REL turned up at my house to do the install. Rob recommended using the pre-outs on the back of the Devialets so I did the configuration for this but at first we couldn’t get it working. After a bit of head scratching it turned out that if you program the Tone button on the Devialet remote control for Sub On/Off it doesn’t work properly and we were getting odd results like one sub would work and the other would not. After changing this setting to Pre On/Off instead the second sub burst into life. I found this a bit odd and was also surprised at how little ‘help’ information in the configurator and on the Devialet website there seems to be for setting up subs, particularly if you are configuring a dual setup. Once we had solved this technical issue I left it up to the REL expert to position the subs for me and set the phase, crossovers, and levels. I was surprised how little adjustment was needed in the positioning to make a huge difference to the sound in the listening position. A couple of centimetres at a time made all the difference. As my system is now dual purpose Hifi and Home Theatre we tested the configuration in both modes and it seems that Rob got it just right. The installation was supposed to take about an hour but in reality it took more like 4 until Rob was happy with the setup and I was too. 

That evening I decided to give them the proper Hifi test to see if it had all been worth the expense and hassle and what I experienced was very surprising. The whole musical experience was transformed throughout the entire frequency range, the soundstage was increased massively around the whole room with much better imaging. Instruments and voices were all much more lifelike, warmer, and there was detail on the recordings that I had never heard before! It is hard to put into words how much better these subs make the entire experience and can only say of all the Hifi gear I’ve bought over the last 20 years nothing has had such a profound effect on my system as adding these 2 subwoofers. Needless to say the purchase regret has vanished. I have no idea how these can affect mid and high end sounds but they do and my system now sounds amazing and puts a big grin on my face every time I listen to it!

That’s great that the result is worth the effort. 

One quick question: Did you keep the speakers full range or did you configure the speakers in the Devialet at high pass with a cut off frequency corresponding to when the Subs are taking over?

Thanks,
Jean-Marie

[Laura]

Hi @Jean-Marie We kept the speakers full range with all the crossover done within the subwoofers.

[Jean-Marie]

Hi @Jean-Marie We kept the speakers full range with all the crossover done within the subwoofers.

Hi Laura,

You might want to try filtering your speakers as high pass. You could be surprised how much freeing the speakers from the burden of low frequencies (that even if they are not reproduced with a significant volume is very demanding on the woofer) can improve de mids and highs on a pair of speakers. 

But of course, your choice and your ears to judge.

All the best,
Jean-Marie