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EtherRegen saved my Devialet experience
#21
(14-Jul-2020, 18:31)sam1000 Wrote: @PeppaPig , thanks for sharing you experience as well. Did you try to return EtherRegen in first 30 days and faced an issue? I'm sure if you list it here or other sites with a fair warning, people will still snap it up. Sometimes things work in one system but not the other.


No, I bought it from someone, I cannot return it. I guess the first owner didn’t find improvement so he sold it to me.

It doesn’t degrade the sound quality... what I worry is the heat it generated is not convincing to me, why a properly designed switch should generate such heat? This is not a POE switch... I am worry about it’s design and build. Anyway it’s only my personal concern.
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#22
If I follow the discussion here correctly, there is a lot of discrepancy whether one hears a difference in sound with or without EtherREGEN. Everyone, though, agrees about the benefit of having a 100 Mb/s output for avoiding issues with Roon-RAAT.

A much simpler, and much cheaper solution would be to install a switch that reduces the stream to 100 Mb/s. Those switches are dirt cheap. In my case, I pulled out my old Airport Extreme and run it in the 2.5 GHz band. That uses maximally 400 MB/s and, via Roon/Air, I have nor dropouts whatsoever, not even with 192/24 files.

When I switched my Airport Extreme into my setup, I could have sworn that I noticed a slight improvement in sound. I attributed this to (maybe) less noise of the Airport's switch compared to a 1 GB/s switch. But I wouldn't stick my neck out if I am correct about hearing an improvement.

The discussion on signal re-clocking, etc. is a difficult one!
SonicTransporter i5 - AirPort Extreme - Devialet Expert 120 - ATC SCM 19 v1
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#23
@Sailor4W - Your suggestion is exactly what I did. I bought a very cheap 10/100 mbps switch from Amazon and inserted it in front of my Expert Pro. With that in place, Roon RAAT worked fine. Everywhere else in my home network is still running at gigabit speed. To be honest, I can't really tell if the cheap switch has any negative impact on sound quality. If it does, it's quite small. But then, I haven't tried an etherRegen or similar switch to know what I may be missing.
Devialet 440 Pro (two 220s)- Oracle CD transport - Kuzma Stabi S/Stogi S turntable - Von Schweikert VR-35 speakers - JPS SC3 SCs - PI Audio power conditioning -
Triode Wire Labs ICs and PCs - Roon on NUC 8i7beh running ROCK
Durham, NC USA
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#24
@Sailor4W - I don't think there is "a lot of discrepancy whether one hears a difference in sound with to without ETHERRegen". I've posted my comments here after getting mine and I've been following the comments of other owners closely. I think if you go back over the posts by those of us here who have tried one the great majority of reports from those who have used one are that it does make a difference and a quite positive improvement. A small minority have reported little or no difference.

Also not everyone agrees about the benefit of a 100 Mbps output with Roon RAAT. We have a long thread here about that issue and there are a minority who have reported little or no problem with a gigabit input and Roon RAAT. I'm in that camp. I really only experienced problems with a gigabit connection when I had Roon upscale everything to 192/24. Most of my library is CD quality, 44.1/16, with some 44.1/24, 48/24, 88.2/24, 96/24, and one album at 176.4/24 plus around 30 albums which are DSD/64. I had few to no problems with those files streamed at native resolution but ran into problems immediately when I had Roon upscale to 192/24. In my case the gigabit problem seemed specifically related to 192/24 streams and I'm not alone in reporting little to no problem with a gigabit connection but the majority of reports from people who experience problems were more frequent than I and a couple of others reported and do relate to lower resolution streams than 192/24.

Having said that, I also have the impression by looking at the number of people reporting problems here and on the Roon forums that many Roon users are not having problems with RAAT. Some of that is definitely because they are using AIR rather than RAAT, or using RAAT over wifi and both of those situations are not subject to the problem. It's actually quite difficult to determine how widespread the problem is for RAAT users with a gigabit connection. Devialet have been very quiet about the number of people who have reported issues but both Devialet and Roon have stated that they did not come across the problem during testing. Reading the thread here about the problem and also the threads on the Roon forums carefully, what you will find are some very long threads with a lot of posts from a much smaller number of people than you might expect and those who have reported problems have reported those problems several times in response to queries and responses from other posters. They give an impression of a lot of people having problems but in reality there are far fewer people reporting problems and those people are reporting the same problems several times. My feeling is that those reporting problems are in the minority of Devialet Roon users but that is partly due to many Devialet Roon users either using AIR instead of RAAT or using RAAT with a wifi connection.

I agree that using a 10/100 switch is a lot cheaper alternative to the ETHERRegen and just as effective at avoiding the problem as the ETHERRegen. AIR and RAAT over wifi are even cheaper still, having no cost at all. The ETHERRegen or one of the other audiophile switches with a 100 Mbps output such as the Melco are really only the "method of choice" if they give you enough of an improvement in sound quality to justify their cost and the ETHERRegen does that for me in my system.

In the end, however, the problem exists and has been acknowledged by Devialet, it definitely needs to be fixed so gigabit connections work without problems, and it most definitely shouldn't still be a problem 17 months after we got the firmware which introduced the problem. No one who wants to use an ethernet connection for streaming and wants to use RAAT should have to replace their existing switch with a 100 Mbps switch as a workaround. It's one thing to decide to replace your switch with something like an ETHERRegen or Melco in order to get better sound quality but no one should be forced to change their switch to a 100 Mbps switch, no matter how inexpensive it may be, to solve a problem with a gigabit speed connection when the Devialet is advertised as accepting gigabit connections and being Roon Ready which means it's supposed to work with RAAT.
Roon Nucleus+, Devilalet Expert 140 Pro CI, Focal Sopra 2, PS Audio P12, Keces P8 LPS, Uptone Audio EtherREGEN with optical fibre link to my router, Shunyata Alpha NR and Sigma NR power cables, Shunyata Sigma ethernet cables, Shunyata Alpha V2 speaker cables, Grand Prix Audio Monaco rack, RealTRAPS acoustic treatment.

Brisbane, Qld, Australia
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#25
Hi David,

I agree with you except for one thing, I have been facing more dropout issues with Roon Air over Ethernet than with Raat.

On both 1000 and 100 Mbits connections.

- on 1000 I face issues with both but significantly more with Air
- on 100 I face zero issues with Raat in tens of hours of listening but many with Air on high bit depth files.

So my case doesn’t support the theory that users not complaining may be using Air.

Cheers,
Bernard
Room: Gik Acoustics | Vibration: Townshend pods | Power: Shunyata Omega XC + Everest + Sigma NR v2 + Sigma ground cables | Source: Mojo Audio DejaVu EVO linux server running Roon core (Raat) | Ethernet: Sonore Optical module + Melco S10P with dedicated LPS + Shunyata Omega Ethernet x 2| Synchronous: Mutec MC-3 + USB (Paul Hynes SR7T LPS) + Cybershaft OP21A (Shunyata Omega USB, AES/EBU, clock cables) | Dac/Pre/Amplification: Devialet D1000 Pro CI (Chord Sarum T RCA-RCA link) | Speakers: Chord Sarum T cables + Wilson Benesch Act One Evolution P1
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#26
Why not just use WiFi? It will be as good sound quality as Ethernet cable. As long as you make sure WiFi signal is strong enough.

Another option is use AirPort Express to join your existing wifi network, then use cable to connect to your Devialet.

I use 5GHz band Wifi, and it’s pretty stable for me. Very rarely it drops, and sounds just as good as using cables with the EtherRegen.
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#27
(15-Jul-2020, 14:03)David A Wrote: @Sailor4W  - I don't think there is "a lot of discrepancy whether one hears a difference in sound with to without ETHERRegen". I've posted my comments here after getting mine and I've been following the comments of other owners closely. I think if you go back over the posts by those of us here who have tried one the great majority of reports from those who have used one are that it does make a difference and a quite positive improvement. A small minority have reported little or no difference.

Also not everyone agrees about the benefit of a 100 Mbps output with Roon RAAT. We have a long thread here about that issue and there are a minority who have reported little or no problem with a gigabit input and Roon RAAT. I'm in that camp. I really only experienced problems with a gigabit connection when I had Roon upscale everything to 192/24. Most of my library is CD quality, 44.1/16, with some 44.1/24, 48/24, 88.2/24, 96/24, and one album at 176.4/24 plus around 30 albums which are DSD/64.  I had few to no problems with those files streamed at native resolution but ran into problems immediately when I had Roon upscale to 192/24. In my case the gigabit problem seemed specifically related to 192/24 streams and I'm not alone in reporting little to no problem with a gigabit connection but the majority of reports from people who experience problems were more frequent than I and a couple of others reported and do relate to lower resolution streams than 192/24.

Having said that, I also have the impression by looking at the number of people reporting problems here and on the Roon forums that many Roon users are not having problems with RAAT. Some of that is definitely because they are using AIR rather than RAAT, or using RAAT over wifi and both of those situations are not subject to the problem. It's actually quite difficult to determine how widespread the problem is for RAAT users with a gigabit connection. Devialet have been very quiet about the number of people who have reported issues but both Devialet and Roon have stated that they did not come across the problem during testing. Reading the thread here about the problem and also the threads on the Roon forums carefully, what you will find are some very long threads with a lot of posts from a much smaller number of people than you might expect and those who have reported problems have reported those problems several times in response to queries and responses from other posters. They give an impression of a lot of people having problems but in reality there are far fewer people reporting problems and those people are reporting the same problems several times. My feeling is that those reporting problems are in the minority of Devialet Roon users but that is partly due to many Devialet Roon users either using AIR instead of RAAT or using RAAT with a wifi connection.

I agree that using a 10/100 switch is a lot cheaper alternative to the ETHERRegen and just as effective at avoiding the problem as the ETHERRegen. AIR and RAAT over wifi are even cheaper still, having no cost at all. The ETHERRegen or one of the other audiophile switches with a 100 Mbps output such as the Melco are really only the "method of choice" if they give you enough of an improvement in sound quality to justify their cost and the ETHERRegen does that for me in my system.

In the end, however, the problem exists and has been acknowledged by Devialet, it definitely needs to be fixed so gigabit connections work without problems, and it most definitely shouldn't still be a problem 17 months after we got the firmware which introduced the problem. No one who wants to use an ethernet connection for streaming and wants to use RAAT should have to replace their existing switch with a 100 Mbps switch as a workaround. It's one thing to decide to replace your switch with something like an ETHERRegen or Melco in order to get better sound quality but no one should be forced to change their switch to a 100 Mbps switch, no matter how inexpensive it may be, to solve a problem with a gigabit speed connection when the Devialet is advertised as accepting gigabit connections and being Roon Ready which means it's supposed to work with RAAT.
I totally agree that Devialet should solve this issue! I haven‘t quite followed all the Roon/RAAT posts, because I have an Expert 120 and therefore, rely on AIR. This issue prevented me from upgrading to an Expert Pro, but mentally, I am now ready for an upgrade.

But whether a ETHERRegen makes a difference or not, I am unable to tell, as I don‘t have one and I don‘t intend to buy one. The benefit of an ETHERRegen is much too controversally discussed that I would spend  money for one. I rather save ist for the upgrade!

I certainly don‘t question people‘s judgement who hear a positive effect with the ETHERRegen!
SonicTransporter i5 - AirPort Extreme - Devialet Expert 120 - ATC SCM 19 v1
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#28
(15-Jul-2020, 14:53)bernardl Wrote: Hi David,

I agree with you except for one thing, I have been facing more dropout issues with Roon Air over Ethernet than with Raat.

On both 1000 and 100 Mbits connections.

- on 1000 I face issues with both but significantly more with Air
- on 100 I face zero issues with Raat in tens of hours of listening but many with Air on high bit depth files.

So my case doesn’t support the theory that users not complaining may be using Air.

Cheers,
Bernard

Bernard,

There are a lot of people using AIR who have reported not getting problems with gigabit connections after having run into problems using RAAT with that same connection.

The question you need to consider is whether the reason you are getting dropouts when using AIR is the same reason people get dropouts when using RAAT with a gigabit connection. Devialet have acknowledged that they have a problem with RAAT but there are other causes for dropouts with networked audio than the problem that Devialet have acknowledged. It is quite possible, I'd say probable, that your problem with AIR is not whatever the problem is that people are having with RAAT because every other report I can remember seeing from people having trouble with RAAT indicates that swapping back to AIR fixed the problem. The fact that you are having problems with AIR on a 100 Mbps connection and not with RAAT on that connection strongly suggests that you have a different problem.

I see you're using a Mac Mini. Were you running Devialet's AIR app on the Mini prior to using Roon? If so, did you delete that app when you started using Roon's AIR implementation because there have been many reports of problems caused by having the Devialet app present on the machine running Roon. I'd check whether you still have the Devialet app installed on your Mini and delete it if you do. That may solve your problem.

If that isn't the issue then have you checked Roon's support page on best networking practices to see if there's anything in it pertaining to your particular setup which may be a problem?

I strongly believe from your description that your problem is not the same problem people are having with RAAT but you certainly may have been having the RAAT problem when you were using it with a gigabit connection. As I said, more than one thing can trigger dropouts and it's very possible that whatever is causing  your dropouts with AIR is different to what was causing your problems with RAAT on a gigabit connection.
Roon Nucleus+, Devilalet Expert 140 Pro CI, Focal Sopra 2, PS Audio P12, Keces P8 LPS, Uptone Audio EtherREGEN with optical fibre link to my router, Shunyata Alpha NR and Sigma NR power cables, Shunyata Sigma ethernet cables, Shunyata Alpha V2 speaker cables, Grand Prix Audio Monaco rack, RealTRAPS acoustic treatment.

Brisbane, Qld, Australia
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#29
Hi David,

I agree, the issue I am facing is most probably a different one.

I have looked at my network in depth and have not identified any issue. As an example streaming Netflix through the very same network route is flawless.

So I believe it’s another issue with Roon Air that may only occur in some specific conditions I happen to be in.

As far as I recall Air was never installed on that Mac Mini but I’ll double check.


Cheers,
Bernard
Room: Gik Acoustics | Vibration: Townshend pods | Power: Shunyata Omega XC + Everest + Sigma NR v2 + Sigma ground cables | Source: Mojo Audio DejaVu EVO linux server running Roon core (Raat) | Ethernet: Sonore Optical module + Melco S10P with dedicated LPS + Shunyata Omega Ethernet x 2| Synchronous: Mutec MC-3 + USB (Paul Hynes SR7T LPS) + Cybershaft OP21A (Shunyata Omega USB, AES/EBU, clock cables) | Dac/Pre/Amplification: Devialet D1000 Pro CI (Chord Sarum T RCA-RCA link) | Speakers: Chord Sarum T cables + Wilson Benesch Act One Evolution P1
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#30
(14-Jul-2020, 13:04)David A Wrote:
(14-Jul-2020, 11:28)PeppaPig Wrote:

Additionally, the EtherRegen runs very very hot, especially summer I feel unsafe to leave it on 24 hours 7 days. It might be safe but it just make me worry. It’s so much hotter than my 1000watt Expert 1000 Pro after 2 hour of loud play.

Where do you live? I live in sub-tropical Australia and got my ETHERRegen in January, the height of our summer. It was a hot summer, you may remember we had all of those bushfires down the east coast of Australia. Here in Brisbane we regularly hit temperatures in the mid-30s Celsius. Yes, the case gets quite warm but I've been running it 24/7 since January including through two of the hottest months of a hot summer without problems. Uptone Audio say that yes, the case gets warm but it is running at temperatures within the operating specs of its components.

I don't think there is anything to worry about.
Kind regards,
David.
Shy
Currently: MacMini with Tidal, Qobuz Roon via RAAT / Cat7 Ethernet cable / Devialet 1000 Expert Pro CI (the BIG dogs!)/ Analysis Plus Oval 9 cable / Hyperion Audio 968 / Cheap cable to homemade, 12 inch powered subwoofers.
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