EtherRegen saved my Devialet experience

[bernardl]

Couple of questions (as I have the recurring 'dropout over RAAT via gigabit ethernet' bug):
- do you use Roon RAAT (the Roon Ready input vie ethernet on the Devialet)?
- did you ever have any dropouts? Or just poor/harsh sound?

I am currently playing Roon RAAT via wifi but would prefer to use a stable ethernet conenction. I have tried hanging a 10/100 switch off my gigabit switch and connecting the Dev to a 100 mb port but I still get the occasional dropout, so then I switch back to wifi.

Does anyone have any opinion or experience on whether the Uptone EtherRegen mitigates the gigabit ethernet bug on Roon RAAT?

hi there,

For what it’s worth I use a Melco S100 btwn my mac mini and the Devialet 1000 and am yet to experience a single drop out when using Raat even with 192/24. On the other hand I experience pretty frequent short drop outs if I switch to Roon Air, which is a pity since Air does clearly sound better to my ears.

The Melco also has 100 Mbit ports and the D is connected to one of these. I do believe that the Melco did result in a sound improvement when it replaced my basic unmanaged Netgear 8 port switch. But the theory says there is no way a switch or ethernet cable can make a difference, so it may just be my imagination.

I am currently not using an LPU for the Melco that may be the next step.

One feature the ER has over the Melco is its external clock input... which may or may not help. It’s an extremely dangerous feature though since it opens the door to an additional clock generator and the best one (Cybershaft) costs around 7,000 US$... One way to “mitigate” this would be to also add a Mutec USB -> AES/EBU reclocker using the same external clock... so as to be able to compare the non effect of super accurate clocks on asynchronous protocoles. Aren’t we having fun?

Cheers,
Bernard

[PeppaPig]

Saying a Devialet 250 sounds harsh and unpleasant and then resolved by a EtherRegen is largely doubtful.

I have repeatedly compared with and without the EtherRegen, and I leave it in my system for about 1.5 months and then remove it. It does NOT make any difference.

I still have my EtherRegen in my home, I didn’t sell it because I feel like if I am selling it, I might be cheating the buyer.

Additionally, the EtherRegen runs very very hot, especially summer I feel unsafe to leave it on 24 hours 7 days. It might be safe but it just make me worry. It’s so much hotter than my 1000watt Expert 1000 Pro after 2 hour of loud play.

Do research on how TCP/IP works, if the Ethernet is unreliable in delivering data, we should really worry about Net banking, and all financial organisations should worry more than audiophiles. Remember those data are sent to the memory in Devialet Expert and then reclocked by Expert internals.

If you are using USB input into Devialet, story “might be” different, not the Ethernet.

[Snoopy8]

I’m pretty sure this is not about the technology and more about what happens after our ears and inside our heads. Some will hear a benefit and others will not. No point in arguing about it because we are all wired differently.

But it is the technology which made the difference for the 110 owners that I tracked. See below..

Saying a Devialet 250 sounds harsh and unpleasant and then resolved by a EtherRegen is largely doubtful.

I have repeatedly compared with and without the EtherRegen, and I leave it in my system for about 1.5 months and then remove it. It does NOT make any difference.

I still have my EtherRegen in my home, I didn’t sell it because I feel like if I am selling it, I might be cheating the buyer.

Additionally, the EtherRegen runs very very hot, especially summer I feel unsafe to leave it on 24 hours 7 days. It might be safe but it just make me worry. It’s so much hotter than my 1000watt Expert 1000 Pro after 2 hour of loud play.

Do research on how TCP/IP works, if the Ethernet is unreliable in delivering data, we should really worry about Net banking, and all financial organisations should worry more than audiophiles. Remember those data are sent to the memory in Devialet Expert and then reclocked by Expert internals.

If you are using USB input into Devialet, story “might be” different, not the Ethernet.

Sorry to hear that the EtherRegen (ER) did not work for you, but for others, it worked well.  I found 7 other Expert Pro owners here and on Audiophile Style who gained a significant benefit.  Of 110 owners, 87 (79%) had a major improvement, 13 (12%) some and 10 (9%) no improvement.

[David A]

…

Additionally, the EtherRegen runs very very hot, especially summer I feel unsafe to leave it on 24 hours 7 days. It might be safe but it just make me worry. It’s so much hotter than my 1000watt Expert 1000 Pro after 2 hour of loud play.
…

Where do you live? I live in sub-tropical Australia and got my ETHERRegen in January, the height of our summer. It was a hot summer, you may remember we had all of those bushfires down the east coast of Australia. Here in Brisbane we regularly hit temperatures in the mid-30s Celsius. Yes, the case gets quite warm but I've been running it 24/7 since January including through two of the hottest months of a hot summer without problems. Uptone Audio say that yes, the case gets warm but it is running at temperatures within the operating specs of its components.

I don't think there is anything to worry about.

[Antoine]

Saying a Devialet 250 sounds harsh and unpleasant and then resolved by a EtherRegen is largely doubtful.

I have repeatedly compared with and without the EtherRegen, and I leave it in my system for about 1.5 months and then remove it. It does NOT make any difference.

I still have my EtherRegen in my home, I didn’t sell it because I feel like if I am selling it, I might be cheating the buyer.

Additionally, the EtherRegen runs very very hot, especially summer I feel unsafe to leave it on 24 hours 7 days. It might be safe but it just make me worry. It’s so much hotter than my 1000watt Expert 1000 Pro after 2 hour of loud play.

Do research on how TCP/IP works, if the Ethernet is unreliable in delivering data, we should really worry about Net banking, and all financial organisations should worry more than audiophiles. Remember those data are sent to the memory in Devialet Expert and then reclocked by Expert internals.

If you are using USB input into Devialet, story “might be” different, not the Ethernet.

The Etherregen and other ‘audiophile’ switches do not address data integrity issues, these issues do not exist nor does anyone at Uptone Audio say they exist. They do address signal integrity and noise issues.

This has been discussed many times, though I’m not sure if it has been discussed here on DC, I do not want to go there now especially since at this moment there’s only working theories about why all this matters. IMO these discussions also rarely lead to anything worthwhile.

[PeppaPig]

Saying a Devialet 250 sounds harsh and unpleasant and then resolved by a EtherRegen is largely doubtful.

I have repeatedly compared with and without the EtherRegen, and I leave it in my system for about 1.5 months and then remove it. It does NOT make any difference.

I still have my EtherRegen in my home, I didn’t sell it because I feel like if I am selling it, I might be cheating the buyer.

Additionally, the EtherRegen runs very very hot, especially summer I feel unsafe to leave it on 24 hours 7 days. It might be safe but it just make me worry. It’s so much hotter than my 1000watt Expert 1000 Pro after 2 hour of loud play.

Do research on how TCP/IP works, if the Ethernet is unreliable in delivering data, we should really worry about Net banking, and all financial organisations should worry more than audiophiles. Remember those data are sent to the memory in Devialet Expert and then reclocked by Expert internals.

If you are using USB input into Devialet, story “might be” different, not the Ethernet.

The Etherregen and other ‘audiophile’ switches do not address data integrity issues, these issues do not exist nor does anyone at Uptone Audio say they exist. They do address signal integrity and noise issues.

This has been discussed many times, though I’m not sure if it has been discussed here on DC, I do not want to go there now especially since at this moment there’s only working theories about why all this matters. IMO these discussions also rarely lead to anything worthwhile.

I agree discussion about this kind of topic does not lead to any result.

I am just sharing my experience with my Devialet, I want to point out I heard no difference, noise level or sound quality are same to me, might be someone else can hear a difference or different room matters.

By the way, What is signal integrity? And what is the result is signal integrity not perfect? I thought at the end it’s delivering data package over TCP/IP.

Anyway I could be wrong but I will suggest carefully adding those components, better get a demo to try out first.

[Antoine]

Hi @PeppaPig, everyone should of course be free to share whatever experience they have with anything.  

Signal integrity is a measure of how closely the ethernet physical layer analog signal (which is used to ‘encode’ the digital datastream=TCP/IP packets or ethernet frames if you will) resembles the original/ideal signal.

You do ask some fair questions, to which there is (to me) no -fully- satisfying answer as of yet. Like I said earlier most of the proposed answers are working theories to me. John Swenson did write a whitepaper regarding the workings of the etherregen addressing these questions. Sharing this as is, without me ‘judging’ the document:

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0660/6...1583429386

Understanding how perturbations on digital signals can affect sound quality without changing bits, and how these issues are addressed by the UpTone EtherREGEN.

edit; perhaps @Superdad is willing to answer any additional questions though I’m sure he’s incredibly busy.   In any case: I’m out. For me the etherregen works like a charm and does what it promises and that’s what matters most to me.

[sam1000]

@PeppaPig , thanks for sharing you experience as well. Did you try to return EtherRegen in first 30 days and faced an issue? I'm sure if you list it here or other sites with a fair warning, people will still snap it up. Sometimes things work in one system but not the other.

[mdconnelly]

I am very tempted to try an etherRegen. I feel confident it will address the Roon RAAT/gigabit ethernet issue if nothing else (since I'd use the 100mbps out to connect to the Devialet). I will say that many years back I remember struggling to hear a difference between power cords... and I can tell you I tried at least half a dozen or more. But with concerted effort and help from a few audio buddies, I ultimately was able to consistently discern differences. But it was as much me training my ears on what to listen for as it was sonic differences delivered from the different power cords. And then it took far longer to understand that different wasn't necessarily better. Hey, this ain't no hobby for the weak of heart.

I still have a hard time discerning between ethernet cables. Maybe it's may 68 year old ears or maybe these ears just need a bit more training on what to listen for. But I'll bet if I really tried, I would find yet another way to spend a lot more money. Given the mixed results I've seen posted here and elsewhere, I suspect that the etherRegen may fall into a similar category. Still... it is tempting and free to try for 30 days... I do wonder how many get returned.

[bernardl]

The whole improvement thing in audio is problematic...

My personal policy is to set system improvement phases during which I define a budget and priorities (what parts of the system seem most likely to deliver improvements). I try to identify the equipment most likely to be the best within the budget, read a lot, decide and then hunt for price, often going for the used market (my speakers and amps are mostly second hand, never bought more than 50% of list price). These improvement phases typically don’t last more than 6 months.

One’s own listening judgement is often touted as the ultimate criteria in audio, typically opposed to the lack of theoretical explanation (using overly simplified pseudo-scientific modelings of reality) for the possibility of an impact. But that is rendered extremely debatable by the lack of repeatability of our tests methods, our environment and above all ourselves. When subjective perception is the rule we cannot rule out it being impacted by our mood, level of energy, what we ate for dinner, the condition of macrobiotics in our intestin, the amount of electromagnetic waves surrounding us, the position of the moon, humidity, temperature,... and our highly imperfect senses memory.

So I tend to rely on the value of large numbers. I tend to trust the average view of many users. And in the end my belief is that by associating components that are reviewed positively by a majority of users I am likely to have a system that sounds better than average. I do of course listen and feel, but taking burn in into account, I tend not to give too high a weight to my initial impressions after introducing a change in my system. Even if it’s rare that an initially very negative impression becomes very positive. By selecting only components that are generally well reviewed I very rarely get negative initial impressions. Either no change or little change and rarely real wow moments (like when I first connected the Wilson Benesch Act one evo, that was a remarkable wow moment).

How does that translate for ethernet things such as switches, reclockers or cables? Well, I have never had any wow moment with those, more a subtle positive impression that contributed to the whole.

Outside those periods... I listen to music.

Cheers,
Bernard