Ethernet streaming and occasional white noise on Windows

[Zappydev]

I must admit I am intrigued by IanG's comment about AIR V1.  I have never used it, but from what I read it was limited to use with iTunes only but did work perfectly.  Could it be re-instated?  Would it work with the current range and firmware?  I am guessing only Devialet know the answer to this, and I suspect the answer is no anyway.  Does anyone know different?

Reading Antoine's comments reminds me of my own early days with AIR.  I ran AIR on what was by then a slow and generally clapped out Windows Vista PC (which is now dead, hard disc failure).   The thing is, AIR worked perfectly with Windows Vista, no white noise, no stuttering or drop outs, all good.  Was this true for all Windows Vista users?  I note that the Vista version of AIR is still available.  I also note that over on the Roon thread, some folk are using old laptops and similar as Roon 'End Points'.  Could you Run Roon as an end point on an old Vista PC?  I am not sure of the Roon requirements for an 'End Point', but if so, this might form a reliable way of using Roon with AIR?

Apart from the fact that I want to use Roon, and not iTunes, I also don't want a processor on my network that is running an OS which is several versions behind Windows 10 /OSX El Cap. However, in terms of curiosity, it would be interesting to know, I agree.

[hk6230]

@Zappydev, if you are using Roon, then give a try of splitting RoonServer andf RoonBridge on two separate machines, with RoonBridge and AIR 2.1.3 running on a Win 8.1 system.

[Hifi_swlon]

OK, so at least three of us have jumped on the 'early adopters' bandwagon and bought microRendu's.

It suddenly occurred to me, if everyone with AIR issues buys one quickly, sods law says they'll release 'AIR3' straight away so we won't need them after all. Oh no, hang on, but then we'll all have microRendu's…… Oh well, AIR3 won't work anyway, so it will all work out well in the end. Phew!

[Antoine]

AIR sounds quite OK for entry level computer audio but actually like MP3's compared to the other better solutions out there so I wouldn't worry about it.

[hamster28]

Does anyone still encounter (with Firmware 7.1 and AIR 2.1.2) occasional bursts of white noise when streaming over the Ethernet, on Windows 7. (I think this issue was always limited to AIR on Windows. It was supposed to be fixed or greatly improved with the latest version of Firmware and AIR).
I experienced this twice in 5 weeks. First, with the 192/24 format, but then with 44/16 as well (where it was not a deafening burst of noise, but rather loud hissing with music still discernible in the background). If you're a Windows user, Please let me know:
1) if it ever happens to you
2) what your usage pattern is:
a) do usually you put Windows to sleep, or shut it down?
b) do you restart AIR prior to listening, or always keep it on?
c) Do you use JRiver or FooBar? Are you using WASAPI EVENT or WASAPI PUSH (Not sure about JRiver, but Foobar gives you two options for WASAPI)?
d) Are you using a direct Ethernet connection between the computer and Devialet, or via the router? What are your AIR buffer length and max recall settings?
Much appreciated!

I had also problems with occasionally, sudden white noise. I found out, that this happens only in the WASAPI-Mode. In DirectSound mode it is absolut stable.
My configuration consists of Devialet 120 (FW 9.0.1) connected via ethernet cable to Netgear 1GB router, a Windows 7 x64 PC connected to the same router. I configured the Devialet to have a fixed ip address. I use 44.1/24 in the Air (V2.1.3) configuration and also in the iTunes playback settings. With DirectSound i had never the noise issue for hours and hours and weeks of listening. I have set the expert buffer setting to 100ms, and "always stream automatically", disabled WASAPI. The PC goes to sleep mode and wakeup per WOL with the iPhone Remote pp. Also no problem with that.

[Dr Tone]

Does anyone still encounter (with Firmware 7.1 and AIR 2.1.2) occasional bursts of white noise when streaming over the Ethernet, on Windows 7. (I think this issue was always limited to AIR on Windows. It was supposed to be fixed or greatly improved with the latest version of Firmware and AIR).
I experienced this twice in 5 weeks. First, with the 192/24 format, but then with 44/16 as well (where it was not a deafening burst of noise, but rather loud hissing with music still discernible in the background). If you're a Windows user, Please let me know:
1) if it ever happens to you
2) what your usage pattern is:
a) do usually you put Windows to sleep, or shut it down?
b) do you restart AIR prior to listening, or always keep it on?
c) Do you use JRiver or FooBar? Are you using WASAPI EVENT or WASAPI PUSH (Not sure about JRiver, but Foobar gives you two options for WASAPI)?
d) Are you using a direct Ethernet connection between the computer and Devialet, or via the router? What are your AIR buffer length and max recall settings?
Much appreciated!

I had also problems with occasionally, sudden white noise. I found out, that this happens only in the WASAPI-Mode. In DirectSound mode it is absolut stable.
My configuration consists of Devialet 120 (FW 9.0.1) connected via ethernet cable to Netgear 1GB router, a Windows 7 x64 PC connected to the same router. I configured the Devialet to have a fixed ip address. I use 44.1/24 in the Air (V2.1.3) configuration and also in the iTunes playback settings. With DirectSound i had never the noise issue for hours and hours and weeks of listening. I have set the expert buffer setting to 100ms, and "always stream automatically", disabled WASAPI. The PC goes to sleep mode and wakeup per WOL with the iPhone Remote pp. Also no problem with that.

Downsampling with DirectSound isn't a solution that rest of us will accept.

[hamster28]

Does anyone still encounter (with Firmware 7.1 and AIR 2.1.2) occasional bursts of white noise when streaming over the Ethernet, on Windows 7. (I think this issue was always limited to AIR on Windows. It was supposed to be fixed or greatly improved with the latest version of Firmware and AIR).
I experienced this twice in 5 weeks. First, with the 192/24 format, but then with 44/16 as well (where it was not a deafening burst of noise, but rather loud hissing with music still discernible in the background). If you're a Windows user, Please let me know:
1) if it ever happens to you
2) what your usage pattern is:
a) do usually you put Windows to sleep, or shut it down?
b) do you restart AIR prior to listening, or always keep it on?
c) Do you use JRiver or FooBar? Are you using WASAPI EVENT or WASAPI PUSH (Not sure about JRiver, but Foobar gives you two options for WASAPI)?
d) Are you using a direct Ethernet connection between the computer and Devialet, or via the router? What are your AIR buffer length and max recall settings?
Much appreciated!

I had also problems with occasionally, sudden white noise. I found out, that this happens only in the WASAPI-Mode. In DirectSound mode it is absolut stable.
My configuration consists of Devialet 120 (FW 9.0.1) connected via ethernet cable to Netgear 1GB router, a Windows 7 x64 PC connected to the same router. I configured the Devialet to have a fixed ip address. I use 44.1/24 in the Air (V2.1.3) configuration and also in the iTunes playback settings. With DirectSound i had never the noise issue for hours and hours and weeks of listening. I have set the expert buffer setting to 100ms, and "always stream automatically", disabled WASAPI. The PC goes to sleep mode and wakeup per WOL with the iPhone Remote pp. Also no problem with that.

Downsampling with DirectSound isn't a solution that rest of us will accept.

As long as i`m playing 44/16 files and set the iTunes volume slider to 100%, there is no loss with DirectSound. Even the windows mixer slider setting  doesn`t matter in this case, because the Devialet driver maps the volume slider directly to the voume setting of the Devialet itself and is therefor lossless. So as long as the Devialet driver sampling rate setting matches the iTunes output setting and the audio file itself, even DirectSound will provide a bit perfect solution.

[Dr Tone]

I had also problems with occasionally, sudden white noise. I found out, that this happens only in the WASAPI-Mode. In DirectSound mode it is absolut stable.
My configuration consists of Devialet 120 (FW 9.0.1) connected via ethernet cable to Netgear 1GB router, a Windows 7 x64 PC connected to the same router. I configured the Devialet to have a fixed ip address. I use 44.1/24 in the Air (V2.1.3) configuration and also in the iTunes playback settings. With DirectSound i had never the noise issue for hours and hours and weeks of listening. I have set the expert buffer setting to 100ms, and "always stream automatically", disabled WASAPI. The PC goes to sleep mode and wakeup per WOL with the iPhone Remote pp. Also no problem with that.

Downsampling with DirectSound isn't a solution that rest of us will accept.

As long as i`m playing 44/16 files and set the iTunes volume slider to 100%, there is no loss with DirectSound. Even the windows mixer slider setting  doesn`t matter in this case, because the Devialet driver maps the volume slider directly to the voume setting of the Devialet itself and is therefor lossless. So as long as the Devialet driver sampling rate setting matches the iTunes output setting and the audio file itself, even DirectSound will provide a bit perfect solution.

Ok more specifically, downsampling to 16/44 isn't a solution that the rest of us will accept.

[hamster28]

Downsampling with DirectSound isn't a solution that rest of us will accept.

As long as i`m playing 44/16 files and set the iTunes volume slider to 100%, there is no loss with DirectSound. Even the windows mixer slider setting  doesn`t matter in this case, because the Devialet driver maps the volume slider directly to the voume setting of the Devialet itself and is therefor lossless. So as long as the Devialet driver sampling rate setting matches the iTunes output setting and the audio file itself, even DirectSound will provide a bit perfect solution.

Ok more specifically, downsampling to 16/44 isn't a solution that the rest of us will accept.

Oh, yes that is the down side of this scenario, if i would like to play a file with a higher resolution, lets say 96/24 i would have first to change the driver setting and the iTunes playback setting also to 96/24 to have a bit perfect transmission. Another option would be, to let the setting this high, but in this case all lower resolution files would be upsampled by iTunes and this is maybe not as good as if the Devialet itself does the upsampling.

[mdconnelly]

@Zappydev, if you are using Roon, then give a try of splitting RoonServer andf RoonBridge on two separate machines, with RoonBridge and AIR 2.1.3 running on a Win 8.1 system.

This is something I did try... configured a Win 10 PC to just run RoonBridge and AIR 2.1.3.   And it did work longer than any other scenario I've had - but ultimately also resulted in white noise.  I do think that simplifying the PC config running AIR does helps make it more stable, but sadly did not fully eliminate the problem (at least not for me).

I also took an older laptop, put RoonBridge on it and then used it to stream via USB to the Devialet.  That worked well and, of course, took AIR out of the mix completely.  So that's another strategy if you don't mind putting it in your music listening room.   Because there was so little running on that laptop, the fan rarely kicked in so it was fairly quiet.  I also considered putting an SSD drive in it and just dedicating it as a RoonBridge but ...

I'm now using the uRendu and there's just no going back.   I'm not going to attempt to compare sound quality between it and AIR just yet, but suffice it to say that I'm extremely happy with what I'm hearing now just 24 hours into the uRendu.  And that's just with the iFi power supply feeding it.