Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Expert Pro 440 vs. 1000
#21
(28-Nov-2017, 09:12)imprezap2 Wrote:
(27-Nov-2017, 19:38)Pim van Vliet Wrote:
(27-Nov-2017, 19:10)imprezap2 Wrote: Personally I have not listened to a Devialet D1000, but last friday I spoke to a dealer to upgrade/trade my D200 to D440 or D1000, he advised not to go for the D1000, his explanation was that D220/D440 are the sweet spots in the Devialet line up, performance/price wise and he felt that the D1000 (and D800 before) were noticeable slower than D220/D440.

Just wondering if anyone on this forum has the same opinion ?

Could you (or your dealer) define 'slower'?

Hello Pim,

I did not ask the dealer the specifics about his "slower" comment, will ask next visit, my guess it will be regarding the transients in music. (slew rate of the Amp, could not find any details on the Devialet site regarding this)

In the past I remember that big power amps "could" sound slower.

Anyway I think the difference in speed (if there is) between the D440/D1000 will be marginal, just interested if anyone on this forum had this experience comparing them.

Olaf

Hi Olaf, I have been through the D400, D800, and now D1000pro route, and to my mind the 1000 is by far the better amplifier in my system - it brought more control and bass definition with a more relaxed presentation. Of course this is only my opinion, others like your dealer, may differ. In all honesty, the only way you will find out is to ask your dealer to arrange a comparative demo. There are many factors involved in SQ - room size, furnishings, musical taste, etc so the only real way to find out which is best for you is to demo in your own home, using your own music.

David
1. NUC6i5SYH running ROON ROCK > ROON/AIR > Ethernet > Devialet 1000pro Core Infinity> Wilson-Benesch ACT Speakers,
or, as alternative, 
2. Wyred4Sound MS-2 Server, Devialet 1000pro Core Infinity, Theta Jade CD Transport, Pure 702ES Tuner, Wilson-Benesch ACT Speakers, misc cables

                                       UK
Reply
#22
I am reluctant to be too blunt here, but it has to be said. Dealers making comments such as the lower power models sound sweeter or stating that the higher powered models are 'slower' are basically talking rubbish. It is not inconceivable that they might be being totally honest and genuine, in that the differences here may well be very small, and if you then expect the lower power model to sound 'faster', maybe it will, but only because of expectation or confirmation bias. Consider some facts, the 400 and 800 have the same internals, the electronics are the same. So how does the 'big power amp is slower' theory work here? Technically it makes no sense at all.

In addition, I recall the 1000Pro launch at Oxford Audio last year. Devialet's chief engineer and 1000Pro designer Mathieu Pernot spent a long time explaining exactly why power is so important. It is easy to look at your speakers and think I have 90dB efficiency for just one watt, I listen at about 90dB, so I only need one watt and maybe a few more for headroom. The reality is very different, speakers will utilise very large amounts of power, albeit in very short duration transients. It is far easier to hit clipping than you might think. Plus, it is the ability to produce these transient current increases very quickly that is important to the dynamics of the music, and this needs power. Mathieu Pernot spent some time talking about his theoretical 'perfect amplifier', which has (obviously in theory only) infinite power. With this in mind, consider that the only difference between a D400 & D800 is restrictions in the power supply for the D400, in line with the lower cooling capability of the 400's case.

Having said all the above, lets say your chosen speaker is a reasonably amplifier friendly type of speaker, the margins between the D400/800 or 440/1000Pro in terms of ultimate sound quality performance are going to be tiny. So could you consider the 400/440 the 'sweet spot' in the range? Yes, absolutely. Indeed, the price difference is so large that you would need to think about how else you could spend that price difference, a better front end, go up the model range for speakers? There are many ways of looking at this.

Also, never trust everything your dealer says! Beware! He might just be telling you what he thinks he needs to tell you in order to get a sale. Not always the case I am sure, but entirely possible.

A final thought I have on this power thing is that the first Devialet I listened to was a D240, then later a 'D500', which was the £20K top of the range dual mono made up of two D240's. I can remember being very impressed that something so small could run to 500wpc RMS. We now have the 440Pro as the more 'affordable' offering, a mere 60w down on this. Not only this, but the 440Pro has the audibly superior V6 ADH versus the old Expert, so with the vast majority of speakers the 440Pro should outperform the 'old' D-Premier / Expert D500's. Impressive progress in not many years. I wonder where this will go next?
1000 Pro - KEF Blade - SOtM sMS-200Ultra Neo - tX-USBultra - Mutec REF10 - MC3+USB - Pro-Ject Signature 12
Reply
#23
I don't think the dealer I was talking too was pushing for a sale at the time, especially because I steered into the direction of the D1000. If I decide to go to replace my D200, I will ask if I can hear the D440/D1000 in 1 listening session. (also this dealer was not negative regarding Devialet in anyway)

Recently I have tried the D200 from my second set in my main system, replacing my Accuphase E-600, and although I think the D200 does not beat the E-600 in all aspects, it does have better control over my Magico V3's.

Anyway I cannot get an amplifier upgrade out of my mind anymore :-)

following options (not in particular order):

- Soulution 330 (new integrated)
- Soulution 325/311 (new pre/power)
- Soulution 511/520 (but this combo is probably more then I want to spend)
- Devialet D1000
- Devialet D440
- Accuphase A70/C3850 (bit afraid of the heat this combo will give me in the summer time, and overall very expensive)

Sound quality wise, I think all options would give me a nice improvement.
First 5 of the options all are modern amplifier technology (with switch mode power supplies), which seem to work very well with Magico speakers.

Will be difficult to listen to the above options in one place/system, but I will see what I can get done.
Main Set: Aavik U-300, Magico V3, Wadia 381i, Ayre DX-5 dsd, NBS Black label / Omega 1, Crystal Dreamline, Cardas Clear, Ansuz Ceramic, Aurender N100H, purpose build rack Bubinga wood (175kg rack only)

Second set: Devialet 200, Raidho X1, JL Audio F110 Subs (2x), Oppo BDP103D with audiopraise board, Melco N1A, Uptone Regen, and lots of Ansuz goodies
Reply
#24
(28-Nov-2017, 13:33)brit Wrote:
(28-Nov-2017, 09:12)imprezap2 Wrote:
(27-Nov-2017, 19:38)Pim van Vliet Wrote: Could you (or your dealer) define 'slower'?

Hello Pim,

I did not ask the dealer the specifics about his "slower" comment, will ask next visit, my guess it will be regarding the transients in music. (slew rate of the Amp, could not find any details on the Devialet site regarding this)

In the past I remember that big power amps "could" sound slower.

Anyway I think the difference in speed (if there is) between the D440/D1000 will be marginal, just interested if anyone on this forum had this experience comparing them.

Olaf

Hi Olaf, I have been through the D400, D800, and now D1000pro route, and to my mind the 1000 is by far the better amplifier in my system - it brought more control and bass definition with a more relaxed presentation. Of course this is only my opinion, others like your dealer, may differ. In all honesty, the only way you will find out is to ask your dealer to arrange a comparative demo. There are many factors involved in SQ - room size, furnishings, musical taste, etc so the only real way to find out which is best for you is to demo in your own home, using your own music.

David

Thanks David, good to hear your thoughts regarding the D1000

Olaf
Main Set: Aavik U-300, Magico V3, Wadia 381i, Ayre DX-5 dsd, NBS Black label / Omega 1, Crystal Dreamline, Cardas Clear, Ansuz Ceramic, Aurender N100H, purpose build rack Bubinga wood (175kg rack only)

Second set: Devialet 200, Raidho X1, JL Audio F110 Subs (2x), Oppo BDP103D with audiopraise board, Melco N1A, Uptone Regen, and lots of Ansuz goodies
Reply
#25
I have both the 440 and the 1000. I notice a very different sound especially as volume goes up. 440 is leaner with less weight. 1000 has more slam like old krells. Both are quick and very refined. I feel the 440 sound a little more liquid. The 1000 more full.
[size=x-small]D1000pro, Sonus Faber Amati anniversary, siltech ls88 cables, direct tv, Apple TV, Xbox, Sony projector.

Second system.. d440pro, Sonus Faber Cremona speakers, Mitchell gyro se turntable with cadenza blue, direct tv, Apple TV , sunfire subwoofer, Sony tv.

Third system... d-premier, Opera sp2 speakers , direct tv, Apple TV , Xbox, Sony tv.
Reply
#26
(02-Apr-2018, 18:42)samsca Wrote: I have both the 440 and the 1000.  I notice a very different sound especially as volume goes up.  440 is leaner with less weight.  1000 has more slam like old krells.  Both are quick and very refined.  I feel the 440 sound a little more liquid.  The 1000 more full.


You have three Devialets in your house? God bless you!
Reply
#27
(12-Nov-2017, 08:42)etch Wrote: Hi everyone,

I would like to have your opinions regarding this question:
I have a Piega 711. Max Watts that they can handle per speaker: 250W

Now I don't know whether to choose the 440 pro or the 1000 pro. In some threades I've read that Devialet artificially degrades sound quality through software in the lower models? Could this be true? From a power standpoint 1000W means +4db max possible volume than 440W. Not more.

Would the 1000 pro be noticably better than the 440 pro on speakers that can only handle 250W, that's my question. Or would the difference in investment be better spent elsewhere? For example subwoofers?

How much better is a 1000 pro than a 440 pro?
Hi
I don’t know if you’re still on this topic Piega 711/Devialet amps but my experience with Piega is more power means better SQ. I started with D400 and happy now with D800.
Go for D1000 if you can afford.
System 1 : D800, Piega Classic 80.2, Audio Cocktail N12 cd rippper flac files server, Roon lifetime Qobuz sublissime Tidal Hifi subscription 
System 2 : D400, JM Reynaud Cantabile Sublime, Roon.
France
Reply
#28
1000 Pro is definitely better than 440 Pro without think.

Devialet also confirmed to me the components used are different.
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)