Expert Pro update email

[Pim]

From Roon forum

Danny Dulai
Roon Labs: COO
11h
“ Markus_Hubner: What is the usual process when someone enters certification process?”

First gear needs to be sent in. Then we test the integration. This always fails. Then we iterate. Iteration can take a couple of weeks to a year+. Very few just get it right. Most take longer (which is why we even have the certification process).

During that time marketing assets are introduced.

Then we release.


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Danny Dulai
Roon Labs: COO
2h
UPDATE

We have indeed just received a request for certification from Devialet and are now going through the specifics with them.

As stated before, this might go fast, it might go slow. Be patient … it will be great once it comes!

So from the Devialet email I got this feeling; We got finance organised, picked up the keys to the new house and are moving in this weekend. From what Danny writes I get; We've seen a house we like and have started saving for a deposit. Looks like RAAT could be ages away still.

[ogs]

As far as I can see @Hifi_swlon is only referring to what "this company" has stated itself in its own writing. Why should we not believe in that? If Devialet suddenly changes their story and breaks earlier promises we should sit still and do or say nothing?

[midi]

If you by an Apple computer you get the promise of a constant evolution of the OS, but you will never get the evolution of the hardware, as Devialet has delivered it with the Core. Apple delivers for a few years the evolution of the OS, but from a certain time the software support ends. That is completely normal and nobody is allowed to expect anything else or is naive. But the emotionality here seems to darken the view a bit. And at the moment it isn´t even clear, wether the non Pros really get no update in the future...

Sorry but you’re completely wrong in both your posts.

Disagree...there is way too much whinging and whining about this company.  There are very few audio companies that have made the effort to offer an upgrade path to owners that has been offered here.  An owner of the original DEVIALET can, over time, end up owning the most current version.  If anyone chooses not to upgrade to the Core board but still assumes they have the right to complain about this tells me they may misunderstand quite a few things generally.
Midi is, imho, correct that these upgrades address new hardware and make demands that older machines may not be able to produce so that is the bargain.
Seriously, this company, with all its attendant failings exceeds the norm for providing a customer the opportunity to upgrade their unit and keep it marketable to date.

That’s it - thanks.

[David A]

So from the Devialet email I got this feeling; We got finance organised, picked up the keys to the new house and are moving in this weekend. From what Danny writes I get; We've seen a house we like and have started saving for a deposit. Looks like RAAT could be ages away still.

I think you got the wrong feeling.

In order to make the Devialet Roon Ready, Devialet have to incorporate Roon code in their firmware and get the firmware to the stage that it does everything a Roon user can ask it to do, then Roon gets an amp or amps running the Devialet software to test so that they can ensure it does everything they want to do in which case they certify it and then it can be released to us when Roon say they're ready to go with it. The Devialet update said they were sending it to Roon this week so Roon could start their process which means that Devialet think they have got their code to the point where it's doing everything Roon want it to do. Danny said Roon had passed it to them and they're starting the certification process. 

Now it's Roon's job to test whether Devialet got the code right or not. If they got it right then certification shouldn't take long as Danny said in an earlier message. If Devialet got it wrong then how long it will take depends on how badly they got it wrong but at this stage everything is progressing exactly as Devialet said and neither the Devialet update or Roon have said how long it's going to be before Devialet get certification. Various people from Devialet seem to have made verbal statements that it will be this year but I've seen no such promise in writing. It could be this year if Devialet have got their code right and Roon works with it the way it should. We'll find out the hard way but there's a lot of us waiting for it and Devialet will have egg on their face if the software fails certification after they made that statement in their update. I think we'd all like to think that they were very sure they've got it right before they made that announcement.

[Hifi_swlon]

Not whining Wdw, just fact.

The Experts weren’t sold with a promise that you could one day pay to upgrade the unit - they were sold with a promise that the EVO platform provided a unique ability to constantly evolve via free software updates, such that they never became obsolete. Not via buying new or upgraded hardware, but the original purchase would constantly evolve. For free.

Devialet have completely reneged in that promise. If you don’t agree then thats your prerogative, but I think it’s a shameful performance.

If the streaming hardware had become so old it wasn’t feasible to uphold the promise, they should have announced a programme of winding the EVO updates down, and designed a streaming board compatible with older hardware. They didn’t do either.

As it happens, despite not being powerful enough to add some new features, the original streaming hardware still has untapped potential - it could easily be developed further to provide updates. Devialet just chose not to as they don’t want to develop for two platforms. Ie they made a conscious decision to dump development on anything but their latest model - hence the new control software won’t interface with non CI experts. But it could. They’ve chosen not to do it. And they’ve chosen to provide no further software/firmware updates. And that’s something they promised against.

Just to add I think the upgrade program IS good. I upgraded. But that’s a completely different thing entirely to the EVO promise.

[sam1000]

Why do we have to flight about EVO promise in every thread? I understand that some folks feel a little betrayed. But Devialet might have some constraints on their side too.I don’t see many manufacturers providing upgrade path to existing hardware except may be couple of companies. To me and many others, the upgrade cost was well worth it.
I also don’t care about RAAT unless Roon starts integrating other services like quobuzz and Spotify. I did not renew my subscription for that reason. They have made a promise about lifetime subscription, but I always wonder how long will they sustain.

[Womaz]

Not whining Wdw, just fact.

The Experts weren’t sold with a promise that you could one day pay to upgrade the unit - they were sold with a promise that the EVO platform provided a unique ability to constantly evolve via free software updates, such that they never became obsolete. Not via buying new or upgraded hardware, but the original purchase would constantly evolve. For free.

Devialet have completely reneged in that promise. If you don’t agree then thats your prerogative, but I think it’s a shameful performance.

If the streaming hardware had become so old it wasn’t feasible to uphold the promise, they should have announced a programme of winding the EVO updates down, and designed a streaming board compatible with older hardware. They didn’t do either.

As it happens, despite not being powerful enough to add some new features, the original streaming hardware still has untapped potential - it could easily be developed further to provide updates. Devialet just chose not to as they don’t want to develop for two platforms. Ie they made a conscious decision to dump development on anything but their latest model - hence the new control software won’t interface with non CI experts. But it could. They’ve chosen not to do it. And they’ve chose to provide no further software/firmware updates.  And that’s something they promised against.

Just to add I think the upgrade program IS good. I upgraded. But that’s a completely different thing entirely to the EVO promise.

Summed up perfectly. For me I feel slightly let down but I am happy as I think my 200 purchase represented great value for money. Their marketing however was exagerated, and that is me using kind terminology. For anyone to think that the original Expert series owners have not been let down, shows they really do not understand the issues.
I am not one of the unhappy owners. I was in the early days as Devialet simply did not deliver., but I have put that behind me. I bought a Melco to get my streaming solution. I have added Roon and I have not looked back, but I totally understand some of the ill feeling towards Devialet as a company.

[agentsmith]

Not whining Wdw, just fact.

The Experts weren’t sold with a promise that you could one day pay to upgrade the unit - they were sold with a promise that the EVO platform provided a unique ability to constantly evolve via free software updates, such that they never became obsolete. Not via buying new or upgraded hardware, but the original purchase would constantly evolve. For free.

Devialet have completely reneged in that promise. If you don’t agree then thats your prerogative, but I think it’s a shameful performance.

If the streaming hardware had become so old it wasn’t feasible to uphold the promise, they should have announced a programme of winding the EVO updates down, and designed a streaming board compatible with older hardware. They didn’t do either.

As it happens, despite not being powerful enough to add some new features, the original streaming hardware still has untapped potential - it could easily be developed further to provide updates. Devialet just chose not to as they don’t want to develop for two platforms. Ie they made a conscious decision to dump development on anything but their latest model - hence the new control software won’t interface with non CI experts. But it could. They’ve chosen not to do it. And they’ve chose to provide no further software/firmware updates.  And that’s something they promised against.

Just to add I think the upgrade program IS good. I upgraded. But that’s a completely different thing entirely to the EVO promise.

Summed up perfectly. For me I feel slightly let down but I am happy as I think my 200 purchase represented great value for money. Their marketing however was exagerated, and that is me using kind terminology. For anyone to think that the original Expert series owners have not been let down, shows they really do not understand the issues.
I am not one of the unhappy owners. I was in the early days as Devialet simply did not deliver., but I have put that behind me. I bought a Melco to get my streaming solution. I have added Roon and I have not looked back, but I totally understand some of the ill feeling towards Devialet as a company.

I understand and agree with the logic as well, they named the platform "EVO" supposedly for a reason.  Although to avoid planned obsolesce I (stupidly?) trusted them one more time and upgraded to CI. 

I also bought a dCS Network Bridge for good measure.  Which I know is kind of redundant especially given that full Devialet Roon integration is in the works, and frankly the latest Devialet firmware is actually quote solid with Roon even through Air.  In fact, I find the dCS with full RAAC has its issue of disappearing from Roon every once in a while.  Such is the problem with computer audio i guess.

[Confused]

I suspect that when Devialet made the original Evo promise, they expected to provide updates for a lot longer than has actually transpired. The problem was that the Pro arrived so quickly after the Expert was introduced. As I understand it, the Pro range was not planned as such, it was a spin-off from the O'dA project. In other words, the R&D surrounding the O'dA gave such good results that the Pro was born earlier than expected, perhaps completely unexpectedly. Consider that there was only just over three years between the Expert being introduced and the Pro arriving. So I suspect that had it not been for the O'dA project, the Pro would still be something yet to arrive, and the Expert Evo would have had one or two ongoing updates. I guess that nobody really expected updates forever, to the end of time, but equally, I suspect that nobody expected the Pro to arrive and the Evo development to end after just three short years.

So the Evo promise was broken, perhaps inadvertently. I still wonder if Devialet might one day come up with something that can be implemented on the Expert, but like anything else with Devialet, this is likely to come out of the blue when you least expect it, Devialet are impossible to predict.

Do Devialet actually owe anything to Expert owners who might feel a little cheated by the original Evo promise? You can make a good argument that the answer to this is yes, I would say.

[Pim]

So from the Devialet email I got this feeling; We got finance organised, picked up the keys to the new house and are moving in this weekend. From what Danny writes I get; We've seen a house we like and have started saving for a deposit. Looks like RAAT could be ages away still.

I think you got the wrong feeling.

In order to make the Devialet Roon Ready, Devialet have to incorporate Roon code in their firmware and get the firmware to the stage that it does everything a Roon user can ask it to do, then Roon gets an amp or amps running the Devialet software to test so that they can ensure it does everything they want to do in which case they certify it and then it can be released to us when Roon say they're ready to go with it. The Devialet update said they were sending it to Roon this week so Roon could start their process which means that Devialet think they have got their code to the point where it's doing everything Roon want it to do. Danny said Roon had passed it to them and they're starting the certification process. 

Now it's Roon's job to test whether Devialet got the code right or not. If they got it right then certification shouldn't take long as Danny said in an earlier message. If Devialet got it wrong then how long it will take depends on how badly they got it wrong but at this stage everything is progressing exactly as Devialet said and neither the Devialet update or Roon have said how long it's going to be before Devialet get certification. Various people from Devialet seem to have made verbal statements that it will be this year but I've seen no such promise in writing. It could be this year if Devialet have got their code right and Roon works with it the way it should. We'll find out the hard way but there's a lot of us waiting for it and Devialet will have egg on their face if the software fails certification after they made that statement in their update. I think we'd all like to think that they were very sure they've got it right before they made that announcement.

So David, when you read "a request for certification" you interpret that as 'the work is done, please check' whereas I interpret it as 'we want to certify, please tell us how'. 

I hope your interpretation is right. With a bit of luck my Od'A will come back RAAT ready