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Help in streaming for Devialet 120
#11
I believe that the crackling sound is symptomatic of using the Devialet AIR driver. Switching to Roon AIR should fix that (just make sure you disable or uninstall the Devialet AIR driver). Before Roon integrated AIR, I ended up using a Sonore microRendu as an endpoint with USB input to my Expert. I've heard that some folks are able to use the Devialet AIR driver just fine but that was not my experience.
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#12
(21-Jun-2020, 17:17)lal99 Wrote:
(21-Jun-2020, 09:31)Sailor4W Wrote: I did have problems with streaming from my SonicTransporter via Ethernet to my Expert 120 via Deviate’s AIR. Particularly 24/192 high-Resolution files caused intermittent crackling. Also, Roon indicated that transport was not bit-perfect anymore. I suspected the reason to be in the 1 Gb/s switch I was using. So I dug out my old Airport Extreme to run it exclusively in 2.4 GHz mode that reduces the Speed to 450 Mb/s. Since then, everything runs perfectly fine, everything’s bit perfect, no crackles whatsoever. Hope this helps.

I assume you were using Roon and Sonic transporter was acting as roon core. I had issue with 24/192 and even CD quality. But I was not using roon just devialet air. You were using a separate switch? 
In my case I was just using my router.

Using SonicTransporter provided better sound quality compared to using mac mini or laptop?  Please let me know.
Friend of mine suggested SonicTransporter and another friend said only quality of roon endpoint matters.

Thank you.
Yes indeed, I am using the SonicTransporter as a Roon core. The SonicTransporter has no USB output, so I needed to connect it via a switch with the Devialet Expert 120. I first connected the Devialet and the SonicTransporter to a 1 Gb/s switch. I did have intermittent crackling with 24/192 files, up to 24 bit/96 kHz files went OK. I read in the forum here that even the new Expert Pros do have a problem with streaming Roon mostly because the Ethernet input doesn't seem to be compatible with Gb/s networks. This is why I switched to my Airport Extreme running at 400 Mb/s in the 2.4 GHz band. This setup runs perfectly well with the AIR protocol and the Roon pathway is very simple (see attached file).

One other thing to consider also is the device set up in Roon: when you'r connecting a device, Roon sets the Buffer Size to Default (whatever that means, see attached file). Make sure to set it to at least 100 ms buffer size, otherwise you'll get network problems and the Devialet starts to crackle frequently.

I used my Mac Mini as the Roon core for a long time. Out of practical reasons, I decided to buy a SonicTransporter. After setting it up, I immediately noticed a cleaner background, as if some high pitched noise disappeared. Whether this is solely due to the SonicTransporter, I can't really tell, but the effect was immediately noticeable. So it was a good thing I bought the SonicTransporter. Also, the support of Small Green Computer was very, very good, as I had some problems in setting up the system. Outstanding company and a very good product!

I keep my fingers crossed that you can solve your problems!


Attached Files Thumbnail(s)
       
SonicTransporter i5 - AirPort Extreme - Devialet Expert 120 - ATC SCM 19 v1
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#13
(21-Jun-2020, 10:17)David A Wrote: First, I would recommend reading Roon's support page on best networking practices  https://kb.roonlabs.com/Networking_Best_Practices  and checking if there is something in it which helps you get better results with your current setup without Roon. They have suggestions applying to several different routers and there may be a simple setting change you can make to improve your current situation. There have also been a few recent posts here about problems with Devialet's AIR app since the last Windows update. You mention a laptop but not whether it is a Mac or a Windows machine. If it's aa Windows machine there may be something in those posts which could help.

As others have said, Roon now includes its own implementation of Devialet AIR which you select in Roon's audio settings. That works fine with the Expert range as well as the Expert Pro range. You won't be able to access your 120 as a Roon Ready endpoint, that requires an Expert Pro, but Roon will see your 120 on y our network and offer you its AIR option in its Audio Settings menu. It seems to be universally accepted that Roon's version of AIR works much better than Devialet's but you should disable the Devialet AIR app on your laptop and, preferably, delete it so it doesn't interfere with Roon. If you're using the free Roon trial to test things out, disable the Devialet app and compress it into a zip file so it can't run. If you decide not to use Roon it's easy then to unzip the Devialet App and start using it again.

You have several options for the network connection. You can try wifi but I had problems with that. You can run an ethernet connection to you 120 from your router or you could even run it from your laptop placed near your 120 and connect the laptop to your network via wifi. Then there's @Sailor4W 's suggestion of placing a wifi device near your 120 and connecting the wifi device to your 120 via ethernet. I did that with an Airport Extreme for a long time in my setup before having a wired connection installed from my router in a different room to a wall point near my 140. All of those connection methods should work. You may also be able to use a wifi device near your 120 and get better wifi reception with your 120. I think part of my problem with not being able to get good wifi reception with my 140 was due to the fact that I was trying that before it got the CI board upgrade so it still had the internal wifi antenna and I think the rear cover over the connections at the back of the amp was blocking good wifi reception. Wired connections can definitely be more reliable than wifi.

You asked whether the device you run Roon on can affect sound quality. I think that if you're running Roon on a computer that is also being used for other purposes such as email or routine timed backups or you're doing some kind of work on the computer while also listening to Roon, the other activities might affect sound quality because they're placing additional demands on the processor. I think Roon works best when it's the only app running at the time which is one of the reasons I moved to using a dedicated server which only runs Roon but if there's only light other activity going on and Roon isn't doing any demanding DSP processing you may not notice anything, You said you could use the laptop solely for Roon so if you do that, I'd program any automated backups you do on the laptop for running after you go to bed at night and not at times when you're likely to be listening to music.


Thanks a lot for your suggestions, really appreciate it.
First I will check roon website for best networking practices and see if there is anything I can do to improve my current situation. I have a windows machine and OS used is 10. 

I will follow the method suggested by you, I will delete Devialet app in laptop but will zip or keep it in a thumb drive. I really liked the idea you suggested. I will get roon trial and use Roons  implementation of Devialet AIR 
I came to know the advantage of CI board from your explanations, I was under the impression that Expert model can act as a roon endpoint. Thanks for making it clear to me.

My router and audio setup is in living room and I was using an ethernet connection to my laptop and another ethernet cable from router to Devialet 120. I am not using and special router or switch as of now. This is the one I received from my service provider ( Spectrum) But I have decent network speed. In general I prefer to have wired connection for audio and luckily I could do it easily.

I will use roon core machine only dedicated for audio and I wont use it for any other purpose or wont overload it any time.

Thanks a lot .

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#14
(21-Jun-2020, 18:33)Sailor4W Wrote:
(21-Jun-2020, 17:17)lal99 Wrote:
(21-Jun-2020, 09:31)Sailor4W Wrote: I did have problems with streaming from my SonicTransporter via Ethernet to my Expert 120 via Deviate’s AIR. Particularly 24/192 high-Resolution files caused intermittent crackling. Also, Roon indicated that transport was not bit-perfect anymore. I suspected the reason to be in the 1 Gb/s switch I was using. So I dug out my old Airport Extreme to run it exclusively in 2.4 GHz mode that reduces the Speed to 450 Mb/s. Since then, everything runs perfectly fine, everything’s bit perfect, no crackles whatsoever. Hope this helps.

I assume you were using Roon and Sonic transporter was acting as roon core. I had issue with 24/192 and even CD quality. But I was not using roon just devialet air. You were using a separate switch? 
In my case I was just using my router.

Using SonicTransporter provided better sound quality compared to using mac mini or laptop?  Please let me know.
Friend of mine suggested SonicTransporter and another friend said only quality of roon endpoint matters.

Thank you.
Yes indeed, I am using the SonicTransporter as a Roon core. The SonicTransporter has no USB output, so I needed to connect it via a switch with the Devialet Expert 120. I first connected the Devialet and the SonicTransporter to a 1 Gb/s switch. I did have intermittent crackling with 24/192 files, up to 24 bit/96 kHz files went OK. I read in the forum here that even the new Expert Pros do have a problem with streaming Roon mostly because the Ethernet input doesn't seem to be compatible with Gb/s networks. This is why I switched to my Airport Extreme running at 400 Mb/s in the 2.4 GHz band. This setup runs perfectly well with the AIR protocol and the Roon pathway is very simple (see attached file).

One other thing to consider also is the device set up in Roon: when you'r connecting a device, Roon sets the Buffer Size to Default (whatever that means, see attached file). Make sure to set it to at least 100 ms buffer size, otherwise you'll get network problems and the Devialet starts to crackle frequently.

I used my Mac Mini as the Roon core for a long time. Out of practical reasons, I decided to buy a SonicTransporter. After setting it up, I immediately noticed a cleaner background, as if some high pitched noise disappeared. Whether this is solely due to the SonicTransporter, I can't really tell, but the effect was immediately noticeable. So it was a good thing I bought the SonicTransporter. Also, the support of Small Green Computer was very, very good, as I had some problems in setting up the system. Outstanding company and a very good product!

I keep my fingers crossed that you can solve your problems!

Thank you very much Sailor4W. I really appreciate your help. I was thinking of getting sonic transporter but some one mentioned it may not be needed. Thanks for providing your real time experience.

I will take a note about the buffer size you mentioned.  Thanks a lot for all help.
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#15
(21-Jun-2020, 21:14)lal99 Wrote:
My router and audio setup is in living room and I was using an ethernet connection to my laptop and another ethernet cable from router to Devialet 120. I am not using and special router or switch as of now. This is the one I received from my service provider ( Spectrum) But I have decent network speed. In general I prefer to have wired connection for audio and luckily I could do it easily.

I will use roon core machine only dedicated for audio and I wont use it for any other purpose or wont overload it any time.

Thanks a lot .


Since the router and the laptop are in the same room as the audio system, connecting both the laptop and the Devialet to the router should work fine. It's also nice and simple and that's a good thing in my view.
Roon Nucleus+, Devilalet Expert 140 Pro CI, Focal Sopra 2, PS Audio P12, Keces P8 LPS, Uptone Audio EtherREGEN with optical fibre link to my router, Shunyata Alpha NR and Sigma NR power cables, Shunyata Sigma ethernet cables, Shunyata Alpha V2 speaker cables, Grand Prix Audio Monaco rack, RealTRAPS acoustic treatment.

Brisbane, Qld, Australia
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#16
(21-Jun-2020, 10:17)David A Wrote: As others have said, Roon now includes its own implementation of Devialet AIR which you select in Roon's audio settings. That works fine with the Expert range as well as the Expert Pro range. You won't be able to access your 120 as a Roon Ready endpoint, that requires an Expert Pro, but Roon will see your 120 on y our network and offer you its AIR option in its Audio Settings menu. It seems to be universally accepted that Roon's version of AIR works much better than Devialet's but you should disable the Devialet AIR app on your laptop and, preferably, delete it so it doesn't interfere with Roon. If you're using the free Roon trial to test things out, disable the Devialet app and compress it into a zip file so it can't run. If you decide not to use Roon it's easy then to unzip the Devialet App and start using it again.


Hello David,

Sorry for late reply, I got tied up with work and now I have some free time. I just got roon installed in my laptop. I removed Devialet air and uninstalled air and after that I can still it is written Devialet air as an output device.  Does it need to show it as Roon air? Sorry if it is a basic question.

Devialet firmware  I am using is 7.1.3

Please let me know.

Thanks
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#17
(05-Sep-2020, 22:58)lal99 Wrote: Hello David,

Sorry for late reply, I got tied up with work and now I have some free time. I just got roon installed in my laptop. I removed Devialet air and uninstalled air and after that I can still it is written Devialet air as an output device.  Does it need to show it as  Roon air? Sorry if  it is a basic question.

Devialet firmware  I am using is 7.1.3

Please let me know.

Thanks


Devialet AIR is what you select. You've run into a "local convention" on this forum. To distinguish between running AIR on your computer and using AIR within Roon,  people here tend to refer to AIR on a computer as "Devialet AIR" and AIR within Roon as "Roon AIR". It's the same thing, Devialet's own proprietary streaming protocol, but the different names in use here make it easy to distinguish how and where you're running AIR which can be helpful at times.
Roon Nucleus+, Devilalet Expert 140 Pro CI, Focal Sopra 2, PS Audio P12, Keces P8 LPS, Uptone Audio EtherREGEN with optical fibre link to my router, Shunyata Alpha NR and Sigma NR power cables, Shunyata Sigma ethernet cables, Shunyata Alpha V2 speaker cables, Grand Prix Audio Monaco rack, RealTRAPS acoustic treatment.

Brisbane, Qld, Australia
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#18
(21-Jun-2020, 01:47)lal99 Wrote: Devialet firmware  I am using is 7.1.3.

I can understand that you use 7.1.3. I preferred that version for a long time and found it supremely musical. I mainly used 7.1.3 until 10.1.0 arrived. I compared the two and ended up preferring 10.1.0. If you have not tried 10.1.0 I recommend you do. It is easy and safe to go back and forth between FW versions. 10.1.0 seems to be the final FW version for Expert amps. I think it even works with the original D-Premier.
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#19
(06-Sep-2020, 01:47)David A Wrote:
(05-Sep-2020, 22:58)lal99 Wrote: Hello David,

Sorry for late reply, I got tied up with work and now I have some free time. I just got roon installed in my laptop. I removed Devialet air and uninstalled air and after that I can still it is written Devialet air as an output device.  Does it need to show it as  Roon air? Sorry if  it is a basic question.

Devialet firmware  I am using is 7.1.3

Please let me know.

Thanks


Devialet AIR is what you select. You've run into a "local convention" on this forum. To distinguish between running AIR on your computer and using AIR within Roon,  people here tend to refer to AIR on a computer as "Devialet AIR" and AIR within Roon as "Roon AIR". It's the same thing, Devialet's own proprietary streaming protocol, but the different names in use here make it easy to distinguish how and where you're running AIR which can be helpful at times.


Oh sorry . 
Thanks for your reply, really appreciate your support.
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#20
(06-Sep-2020, 09:35)ogs Wrote:
(21-Jun-2020, 01:47)lal99 Wrote: Devialet firmware  I am using is 7.1.3.

I can understand that you use 7.1.3. I preferred that version for a long time and found it supremely musical. I mainly used 7.1.3 until 10.1.0 arrived. I compared the two and ended up preferring 10.1.0. If you have not tried 10.1.0 I recommend you do. It is easy and safe to go back and forth between FW versions. 10.1.0 seems to be the final FW version for Expert amps. I think it even works with the original D-Premier.


Thanks ogs, I will try it. 
Yeah 10.1.0 is the last FW version for Expert amps.
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