Original d'Atelier

[yabaVR]

Yes the chassis are different, but I don't think the D250 can cool any better than the D200. Maybe the D250 has a little bit more mass but defenitely less contactarea of this blue compound as you can see in the pictures. There is no contact within the D250 (window) where the D200 Digitalboard has contact to the top of its chassis.
And why do they get the D250 painted black on the inner surface anyway? See pics.

The D200 has a large contactarea (blue compound) in the middle of the chassis where the D250 has this window with this strange "bone" underneath that has no technical function to me. See the pic. This "bone" is just a "plastic-thing" with no contact/wires whatsover constructed. It is screwed to the cover of the digital board, but what's its function? No antenne as you might assume when seeing the drawing on top of this "bone". In the picture you see the back of it.

gui

[IanG-UK]

I'm pretty sure Devialet used a Shunyata Hydra Triton at Munich last year. It's essentially a power distributor with added passive filtering of high frequency noise... supposed to be best in class although I haven't tried it. I believe IanG-UK has one so might be able to comment.

Guillaume

Yes Devialet did use a piece of Shunyata kit at Munich last year and it looks as though they will do the same this year.

To be fair it looks as though the Devialet Munich rooms are jointly sponsored by Devialet and Devialet's Geman distributor, which also represents Shunyata. So clearly Devialet is comfortable with the Shunyata kit but might be just as comfortable without it all together.

I've had a few mains units over 30 years starting with a TCVN, then a Lynwood, then some top end Isotek, then PS Audio PPP, and now Shunyata Triton/Typhon.

The first three were definitely intended to reduce some mains interference which I had, allegedly caused by thyristors in a neighbour's television. That interference has now stopped (maybe he changed his TV!) and then I had the PPP for about six years I guess, though I always had a suspicion that the PPP did limit dynamics.

I bought the Shunyatas having read lots about the guy who runs it (Caelin Gabriel) and his research and how long he has been in the same business.

So I bought into the integrity of the brand and the longevity and acceptance of his research - I don't buy into any ability I might have to test sound quality differences in these situations.

However, as for sound quality with the Shunyatas and Original d'Atelier goes, I can pretty definitely say that this is the best I have heard in my room, by a good degree.

Information retrieval, speed/power and spacial recreation. These are the factors I identify as contributing to my sigificantly increased enjoyment.

Is it the Original d'Atelier? The Shunyatas? Release 9.0? My preconditioning to like what I have purchased? Who knows.

Perversely I expect reviewers to deliver these comparative listening tests (which they very very rarely do) even though I don't feel the need to do them myself!

[Cylob]

I can asure you that a power conditioner is NOT the problem in general. But the Aurender for sure is a weak link.

Why is the Aurender the weak link here?
Read only good stuff about it so far.

[rwjr44]

I can asure you that a power conditioner is NOT the problem in general. But the Aurender for sure is a weak link.

Why is the Aurender the weak link here?
Read only good stuff about it so far.

@Gentleman should be a gentleman and elaborate on his comment.

[Confused]

I suspect they do it with some additional filter in the software that weakens the D200/D120 and/or with the inner surface of the D250 being painted black. I suspect this black paint being a shielding lacquer that protects the circuitboard to some amount from the bad chrome-nickel-el.mag.-effects of the whole surface.

Isn't it the case that the 250 chassis is different from the 200 and provides better thermal management by virtue of its physical properties, being machined from solid aluminium and providing better heat sinking? 

Guillaume

I recall discussing this with Devialets chief engineer Mathieu Pernod at a dealer event.  This was a little after the launch of the then D170.  Matthieu advised that the D170 had essentially the same electronics as the D240, but was restricted due to thermal constrains.  The D240, with the "original" design case based on the D-Premier offers better transient thermal cooling.

So the current D200 has software restrictions on the power supply to keep the thermal issues in check, whereas the D250 is limited by the power supply itself.

[yabaVR]

I suspect they do it with some additional filter in the software that weakens the D200/D120 and/or with the inner surface of the D250 being painted black. I suspect this black paint being a shielding lacquer that protects the circuitboard to some amount from the bad chrome-nickel-el.mag.-effects of the whole surface.

Isn't it the case that the 250 chassis is different from the 200 and provides better thermal management by virtue of its physical properties, being machined from solid aluminium and providing better heat sinking? 

Guillaume

I recall discussing this with Devialets chief engineer Mathieu Pernod at a dealer event.  This was a little after the launch of the then D170.  Matthieu advised that the D170 had essentially the same electronics as the D240, but was restricted due to thermal constrains.  The D240, with the "original" design case based on the D-Premier offers better transient thermal cooling.

So the current D200 has software restrictions on the power supply to keep the thermal issues in check, whereas the D250 is limited by the power supply itself.

Ah, I see. First hand information. Thank you for that.

But I question Mr. Pernod answer as one can see no physical thermal constrains as I have opened both, the D200 and D250, and you can't see, where the D250 would have better thermal skills (see pics above).
The D250 has even lesser thermal contactarea due to this window at the top, where the D200 has a BIG alike heatsink contacting the digital powerboard on its top.
It's a magiclike cutback in performance for the D200 and I heavily doubt the statement of thermal constrains is the reason because they obviously can not be seen.
I think to justify the difference in acquisition of the both the softwarerestriction is a built-in-design for the D200.

And hey, it's ok for me. The D200 is nevertheless a great performer if not the better one for the money. Carcompanies do it the same way selling the better equipped/motored cars of the same model for much more than the extra costs for them actually are (anyhow, still hoping there is a D200->D250 hack in the future or me could afford one).

gui

[Antoine]

A 250 has a larger surface area and is 2.1kg's (=35%) heavier, so it's in effect "a bigger heatsink". Perhaps the curved shape also helps, but I'm no thermodynamics specialist.

[Confused]

Ah, I see. First hand information. Thank you for that.

But I question Mr. Pernod answer as one can see no physical thermal constrains as I have opened both, the D200 and D250, and you can't see, where the D250 would have better thermal skills (see pics above).
The D250 has even lesser thermal contactarea due to this window at the top, where the D200 has a BIG alike heatsink contacting the digital powerboard on its top.
It's a magiclike cutback in performance for the D200 and I heavily doubt the statement of thermal constrains is the reason because they obviously can not be seen.
I think to justify the difference in acquisition of the both the softwarerestriction is a built-in-design for the D200.

And hey, it's ok for me. The D200 is nevertheless a great performer if not the better one for the money. Carcompanies do it the same way selling the better equipped/motored cars of the same model for much more than the extra costs for them actually are (anyhow, still hoping there is a D200->D250 hack in the future or me could afford one).

gui

I can see your point.  The thing about talking to the Devialet guys is that they are VERY cautious about what they say.  They are very good at repeating the party line around their advertising slogans, but specific technical answers to specific technical queries are usually answered in a somewhat obscure way.  It should of course be remembered that the D250 case is the original design, and the case for the D200 is the result of Devialet redesigning to make a more affordable amplifier.  But why specifically does to D250 have better cooling?  I would like to know.  Does anyone know?

I take Antoine's point about the higher mass case, but once the case itself is fully hot, I can't see that this helps much?  (Although I am not a specialist in heat transfer)

Back on the topic of the Original d'Atelier, the HFN review repeats the Devialet party line "the Original d'Atelier milled-from-solid casework is culled from a solid billet of alloy, affording it better heat sinking over the slimmer 120, 200 and 400 models".  I presume an article published in a prominent UK magazine will be fact checked by Devialet?  The questing is, exactly why does the case improve heat sinking so much.

Any thermal experts out there know?

[kerkhoffd]

However, as for sound quality with the Shunyatas and Original d'Atelier goes, I can pretty definitely say that this is the best I have heard in my room, by a good degree.

Is it the Original d'Atelier? The Shunyatas? Release 9.0?

Would be very interested to hear what Shunyata powercables you use. Tested a Viper and a Z PC-10 on my D200 and I was most impressed with the Z PC-10 so far. Didn't try the Sigma range however.

[Gentleman]

I can asure you that a power conditioner is NOT the problem in general. But the Aurender for sure is a weak link.

Why is the Aurender the weak link here?
Read only good stuff about it so far.

As some guys of this forum know I am working on a SOTA digital source based on computer components for more than two years now. To find out how good our source has become we compared many available digital sources with our prototypes. During our comparisons we auditioned the Aurender W20 too. To our surprise the Aurender W20 was not even close to our early prototype....

Since that time we have tested several other available streamers and we have always been massively disapointed...

If you investigate the components which are important for the SQ of digital audio you will soon find out how cheap most streamers are made. There are some SOTA parts found once in a while but no design we saw was really promising. And the small Aurender used during the show is no exception...

Compared to the other items used in the setup during the fair (D900, cables and the WA Sasha II) the Aurender was by far the weakest link of the chain. And we did not even start to discuss the quality of the used files and the used format yet...

Moreover I did not see any reclocking device, too. And how about vibration control of the source?

I have been to several demos of the german importer (WA speakers with Devialet) and every time the SQ was below SOTA because of weak sources. This is something I do not understand as the importer has better sources available such as ReQuest Audios The Beast...

In Dubio Pro Audio

Jan