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Roon, Expert Pro, and a major issue with RAAT
#11
Actually, on thinking back I have had a problem like the one you describe, ie being able to access Roon AIR but not Roon RAAT with my 140. It happened last year.

The problem wasn't an ethernet cable, rather it was an ethernet port which had stopped holding a cable firmly. What I found was that if I jiggled the cable plug in the port and got it realigned for a good connection, RAAT came back. I have no idea why a bad connection should cause a problem with RAAT and not w its AIR. The problem would occur if I moved the cable slightly or moved the device at either end of the cable slightly, causing the cable to move at the same time. The problem was intermittent and it took me a while to discover that it was cable movement that was the trigger and that the cable was held less securely in the port on the Nucleus+ than it was at the other end in the port at my switch.

The problem port was the ethernet port on my Nucleus+ which I ended up having sent back to the Australian distributor for a repair under warranty. It's worked fine since return.

So, suggestion:

1- try moving the cable that is now working at each end, basically a slight side to side movement. Does it move more easily or, rather, is it gripped less tightly, in the port on one device rather than the device at the other end? Does the same problem occur when you try this?

2- Whether or not the same problem occurs with the current cable, repeat that test with the problem cable. Do you find that movement of the ethernet plug in a socket in one device can make the difference between RAAT working and RAAT not working?

If you notice a difference with movement of the cable at the port with the problem cable, then it may be a problem with the port and that cable may simply be failing to secure itself firmly enough in the port. If you notice the problem with both cables with movement then I think it could definitely be a loose port.

Don't know why i didn't remember this before but I didn't. I held off sending the Nucleus+ back for repair for a while and tried to avoid anything that caused the cable to move but the ethernet cable involved was stiff and if I moved my amp, for example to swap an SD card to change configurations, that would move my switch and the movement of the switch moved the cable at the Nucleus+ port slightly and triggered the problem. Over time it started to get a bit worse and I eventually decided to bite the bullet and send the Nucleus+ in for repair.

So, I'd suggest checking how tight the cable is in the port at each end and, if it's looser in the port at one end than at the other end you may want to look at having the device at the looser end checked to see if the port is failing to grip the cable securely enough.
Roon Nucleus+, Devilalet Expert 140 Pro CI, Focal Sopra 2, PS Audio P12, WireWorld Starlight ethernet cables, Uptone Audio EtherREGEN, Kimber Select speaker cables, Shunyata Alpha NR and Delta EF power cables power cables, Grand Prix Audio Monaco rack, RealTRAPS acoustic treatment.

Brisbane, Qld, Australia
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#12
Interesting and highly plausible explanation of my problem as well.  But, how can AIR work but not RAAT?  Different types of buffering?  Less sensitivity to packet loss?  Based on John's comments on the Roon forum, "I can say with confidence that RAAT shouldn’t be affected by the ethernet cable as long as it is within-spec."   well, I suppose an intermittent connect cable would be out of spec.

I have tried your wiggle test but, alas, I can't reproduce the problem.   But that doesn't rule it out this past Sunday when the problem occurred.

I'm going to call the problem fixed for now.  I think the most enlightening thing I learned was that such a problem could occur after a Devialet firmware/OS update if playing RAAT before the 2nd reboot.  

What a strange little hobby we have ...
Devialet 440 Pro (two 220s)- Oracle CD transport - Kuzma Stabi S/Stogi S turntable - Von Schweikert VR-35 speakers - JPS SC3 SCs - PI Audio power conditioning -
Triode Wire Labs ICs and PCs - Roon Labs music streaming
Durham, NC USA
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#13
Guys, this is being over analyzed to the ridiculous. It’s a computer, they run of software written by humans, shit happens, a reset/reboot fixes it. Who cares about the exact path of failure? I‘m pretty certain the whole re-flash action was unnecessary, if it happens again, power cycle both units and move on...
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#14
(12-Feb-2020, 19:41)alaw Wrote: Guys, this is being over analyzed to the ridiculous. It’s a computer, they run of software written by humans, shit happens, a reset/reboot fixes it. Who cares about the exact path of failure? I‘m pretty certain the whole re-flash action was unnecessary, if it happens again, power cycle both units and move on...

You're right, it's a computer and using software written by humans. Shit does happen but a reset/reboot doesn't fix everything. Try telling that to someone who has big problems with the RAAT/gigabit connection bug who can reboot all they like and have the problem start up again when they start listening again, or to the families of those who were on the 737 Max planes which crashed.

Knowing the path of failure is important if you want to stop a recurring problem, and rebooting doesn't fix faulty software or hardware though it can solve some other problems which can occur. Asking questions when a problem occurs is a good idea, and learning whether the problem has affected others and whether there's a cure, a work around that avoids it, or whether it's a problem that has no remedy at present can potentially save you a lot of trouble over time.
Roon Nucleus+, Devilalet Expert 140 Pro CI, Focal Sopra 2, PS Audio P12, WireWorld Starlight ethernet cables, Uptone Audio EtherREGEN, Kimber Select speaker cables, Shunyata Alpha NR and Delta EF power cables power cables, Grand Prix Audio Monaco rack, RealTRAPS acoustic treatment.

Brisbane, Qld, Australia
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#15
(12-Feb-2020, 19:41)alaw Wrote: Guys, this is being over analyzed to the ridiculous. It’s a computer, they run of software written by humans, shit happens, a reset/reboot fixes it. Who cares about the exact path of failure? I‘m pretty certain the whole re-flash action was unnecessary, if it happens again, power cycle both units and move on...

All true, and I'm certain we've all resolved (yet not solved) many problems by rebooting.   But in this case the power cycle did not resolve the issue (perhaps two would have according to the post in the Roon forums).    

But sure, time to move on...
Devialet 440 Pro (two 220s)- Oracle CD transport - Kuzma Stabi S/Stogi S turntable - Von Schweikert VR-35 speakers - JPS SC3 SCs - PI Audio power conditioning -
Triode Wire Labs ICs and PCs - Roon Labs music streaming
Durham, NC USA
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