Roon RAAT and "An audio file is loading slowly"

[David A]

At least those responses from Devialet acknowledge the problem. If you have a problem and you're working on it but still haven't finalised a fix, the most sensible response is to acknowledge the problem and say you're working on it. Promising a date for a fix when you haven't got one is stupid.

What would be a better response would be a Newsletter from Devialet to all Expert Pro owners stating that there is a problem, what situations it has been found/reported to occur in, and what the current workarounds are (eg using AIR instead of RAAT, using 100 MBPS connection instead of gigabit, using wifi instead of ethernet, etc). All owners should be told of the issue, that it doesn't affect everyone, and what they can do if it affects them rather than being left to struggle in the dark with no idea of what is going on and what steps they can take if they get the problem if they aren't members of a forum like this or the Roon forums.

[Flashman]

Regarding the Devialet customer response from Karen, it's discomfiting to hear that Devialet can't replicate the problem, as it means they are no closer to a solution than when it first appeared in February.  After all, how can you promise something will be fixed when you don't even know what's causing the problem!

On a separate but related topic, is anyone successfully using Roon with Devialet via gigabit Ethernet from a Google WiFi system and without resorting to any of the short-medium-term fixes, such as 100Mbps Ethernet or wifi?

[mdconnelly]

@David A - agree completely. Devialet has promised numerous times over the years to improve their communications, but just can't seem to get there. It just doesn't seem to be a priority for them.

@Flashman - I still struggle when Devialet (or Roon) says they can't reproduce it, particularly when so many customers are experiencing the problem. Roon even has the technology to analyze and evaluate what's happening on a customer's Roon implementation which I have to think provides them with a good indication of what's going on. So forgive me if I'm just a bit skeptical. But it is what it is. Not sure what you mean by "gigabit Ethernet from a Google Wifi system". Do you mean just placing the Google wifi router between Roonserver PC and Devialet? I have not used it but am quite curious about their mesh networking and also curious to know if it would work.

I would love to hear from more people who are NOT having the problem at gigabit speed to learn what type of routers they are using or what they're network topology is. @David A & @audio_engr have been great in their contributions. And yet, here we are ;-)

[David A]

Regarding the Devialet customer response from Karen, it's discomfiting to hear that Devialet can't replicate the problem, as it means they are no closer to a solution than when it first appeared in February.  After all, how can you promise something will be fixed when you don't even know what's causing the problem!
…

It's worse than that. How can you know what's causing the problem if you can't replicate it and test to see what's actually going on?

Step 1: replicate the problem, and if you've got reports of it occurring at different file resolution and connection speeds, then replicate the problem under all reported conditions.

Step 2: find out what's happening in the signal/processing path both before and while the problem is manifesting itself. If it's occurring under different conditions, find out what's happening under each condition because while the audible result may be the same, what's happening under each condition may be slightly different.

Step 3: work out what's causing the signal/processing path to behave in that way under each condition. There may actually be more than one cause if the problem is happening under different conditions.

Step 4: work out how to correct the problem behaviour in the signal/processing path.

Step 5: alpha test and then beta test the correction. If the correction doesn't hold up under testing, repeat step 4 and step 5 until you have a correction that does hold up and also doesn't cause any new problems that you can find.

Step 6: release correction to customers.


If you can't replicate the problem you're still at step 1. Working out what's causing the problem comes 2 steps later at step 3.

Believe me, developing a fix is a hell of a lot easier when you can replicate the problem because only then can you start to find out what's going on and you need to know what's going on if you want to identify what's causing it.

[David A]

…

I would love to hear from more people who are NOT having the problem at gigabit speed to learn what type of routers they are using or what they're network topology is.  @David A & @audio_engr have been great in their contributions.   And yet, here we are ;-)

I have tried the following setups with minimal problems, i.e. dropouts to periods of silence only 3 or 4 times in total since the Roon Ready update, more frequent but still uncommon momentary (fraction of a second) drops in volume where I did not notice a period of silence. All of these setups worked with 44.1/16, 44.1/24, 48/24, 88.2/24, 96/24. 176.4/24 and DSD64 content:

1-Nucleus+ and Devialet 140 connected to Netgear GS105 switch connected via ethernet to Netgear Orbi RK40 hub.

2- as above but replace Netgear GS105 switch with Netgear RK40 satellite

3- Nucleus+ connected to Orbi hub via USB3 to ethernet adapter, Devialet connected to Nucleus + ethernet port

4- Nucleus+ connected to Orbi hub via Nucleus+ ethernet port, Devialet connected to Nucleus+ via USB3 to ethernet adapter.

All of the above provided a gigabit speed connection to the Devialet.



I got immediate and constant problems with setup 2 above when I used Roon DSP to convert all sources to 192/24. I have not tried doing this with the other connections above.



I have also tried setup 4 above using a USB2 to ethernet adapter to connect the Devialet to the Nucleus+ with similar results to 4 above but the USB2 adapter does not provide a gigabit connection.

Bear in mind that others may have tried one or more of the above setups but have different settings operative for their router and/or switch, and/or different configurations than mine for their Devialet, and may get different results.

And no, I didn't try all of the above setups to see whether I could trigger the problem. I tried then for other reasons. I definitely did not go looking for punishment :-)


Additional info:

- the dropouts to silence occurred with setups 1 and 2 above. I ran those setups in the first 2 months or so after the Roon Ready update was released.

- I started using setup 3 above about 3 weeks ago, maybe 4 weeks at most. I have not had any dropouts to silence since then, only the momentary drops in volume level I mentioned. They don't occur every day and I've never noticed more than 2 in a single day, I may not have noticed more than 1 in a single day since I haven't been keeping notes.

- I swapped from setup 3 to setup 4 a week or so ago after discovering Danny Dulai's detailed instructions on how to set up the connections and manual IP addresses. Results with setups 3 and 4 have been identical, infrequent momentary drops in volume on a less than daily basis.

[Flashman]

Not sure what you mean by "gigabit Ethernet from a Google Wifi system".   Do you mean just placing the Google wifi router between Roonserver PC and Devialet?    I have not used it but am quite curious about their mesh networking and also curious to know if it would work.

Previous to using 5GHz wifi to ensure that Roon and Devialet were playing nicely together, my modem was feeding a Google WiFi mesh network router with the following topology: Google WiFi>Netgear ProSafe GS108 switch>output 1: Nucleus/output 2: Devialet. 

One fix that worked but which required an every-other-day-or-so Devialet re-boot (disconnect from the mains, factory config, followed by preferred config) had the following topology: Google WiFi>Netgear ProSafe GS108 switch>D-Link DES-105 10/100Mbps switch>Devialet and connecting the Netgear switch to the Nucleus.

@mdconnelly Mesh networking is terrific.  Never had a problem in my 2,000 sq. ft. condo once I installed the Google WiFi network.  Now, regarding my audio set-up, I now use a 5GHz wifi connection and regularly get a 250+Mbps connection to the Devialet.  The wifi implementation on the Devialet is quite robust, I have found.  To date, I find the SQ comparable to Ethernet direct connection and zero dropouts or issues with slow-loading Tidal.  Even high-bandwidth DSP works well.

[Manfred]

I started my Devialet Journey with D170 now D220Pro CI. With D170, AIR, Win7 everything works fine up Win 10 was introduced. With D220 Pro and the CI module, UpNP did not work - stuttering, AIR with JRMC did not work unstable, stuttering and also as I started with ROON, ROON RAAT did not work "Pause" during playback, until I found the following solution for me:

I have a managed Linksys switch, where my Devialet is connected to (see attached architecture overview figure). 
   

If I configure my switch according to the following table everything works UPnP, AIR and RAAT:

   


The Devialet port is the only port where I got an: CRC & Align Errors: 1
This typically indicates that there is a physical problem (such as cabling, a bad port, or a bad NIC) but can also indicate a duplex mismatch.

[Flashman]

I started my Devialet Journey with D170 now D220Pro CI. With D170, AIR, Win7 everything works fine up Win 10 was introduced. With D220 Pro and the CI module, UpNP did not work - stuttering, AIR with JRMC did not work unstable, stuttering and also as I started with ROON, ROON RAAT did not work "Pause" during playback, until I found the following solution for me:

I have a managed Linksys switch, where my Devialet is connected to (see attached architecture overview figure). 


If I configure my switch according to the following table everything works UPnP, AIR and RAAT:

Manfred, would I be correct to surmise that the following four things made your system workable:
1) Managed switch
2) Restrict port for Devialet to 100Mbps
3) Disable auto negotiation for Devialet port
4) Enable flow control for Devialet port

Also, have you had ANY problems with this set-up when using Roon?

Thanks.

[mdconnelly]

@Manfred - That is quite in interesting network! To expand on @Flashman 's #2 question.... if you set Port 2 into your 220 Pro to 1Gb instead of 100 Mb, would you get the dropouts and "Audio file loading slowly..." errors on hi-res music?

[Manfred]

@Manfred - That is quite in interesting network!    To expand on @Flashman 's #2 question.... if you set Port 2 into your 220 Pro to 1Gb instead of 100 Mb, would you get the dropouts and "Audio file loading slowly..." errors on hi-res music?

If it was 1Gb I got the" Audio file loading slowly..  " errors. But setting it to 100 Mb was not enough. I had to disable "autonegotiation"  on two ports.