UK event with Mathieu Pernot - 17 July

[streamy]

it was very disappointing to hear that the Expert range was yet again taking the back seat in comparison to the Phantom/Reactor range, although those with Phantoms and Reactors should be happy(happier)?.

First, thanks for the report of this ‘becoming seldom event’ of direct contact with Devialet. As owner of Phantoms Silver and Golds since 2015 and 2017 respectively, I must say Phantoms owners still feel sitting on the back seat. The last firmware and software update for Premier Phantoms is from 08/07/17, i.e. more than 2years ago. Since then nothing, eagerly waiting for Roon RAAT integration, a fix of the noisy Airplay 1 integration, the not well working optical input on the Dialog etc. Indeed I would be happy when Devialet would spend some time on the Phantom premier Firmware. To me it looks like Devialet has made the transformation from a tech startup formerly enthusiastic to improve its products to an enterprise that sees sold systems and lines as cost factor to minimally support within its warranty period to comply with law. Anyway, both Phantom and Expert owners can in most cases sit back and enjoy great sound quality coming from their products.

[BoyScout]

Hello all,

Just back from this afternoon's event at Oxford Audio.

Hot off the press, here are answers from this afternoon's event to the questions listed here.

Please excuse the fact that I've reorganised them so that they better follow the sequence of the discussion, while keeping the numbers the same as in the original list.  Apart from that, I've tried to capture everything Devialet said without adding my interpretation or reactions; I'll follow up with some more subjective and personal comments later.

Great job, Ian.
Regardless of the outcome and answers obtained, I deeply appreciate all the work you have done for everyone.
Thanks a lot.

[ssfas]

I have a 250 Pro CI and a 900w Reactor. When I bought the 250 Pro it was partly because Qobuz was promised to be onboard CI. So a disappointment on that, but no problem as Roon does it now. Roon effectively replaces the need for Devialet's promised new control app. I recall they were actually planning a complete rewrite of DOS as well as the Expert firmware and integrated app control. It all seems a bit scaled down. I really don't care because my Expert works fine and I don't need it to do more.

I briefly had a Roon connectivity issue. I contacted support. I then fixed it, and support were very interested in what the issue was and how it was fixed. They kept on emailing me for more information. I've had no connectivity issues, even when using ethernet through a gigabit switch, and am convinced any issues are related to internet hardware. The easy test is to run a cable direct from your modem to the CI ethernet input and see if it works. I bought a cheap 30m CAT6 off Amazon for this purpose. I don't think Devialet can be responsible for third party hardware and complex networks.

[thumb5]

Hello all,

Just back from this afternoon's event at Oxford Audio.

…

1) What's the current status of investigating/fixing the problems with Roon (RAAT) over Gb Ethernet?

Mathieu is working on this but said it's a very tricky problem.  In fact it has not been possible to reproduce it at Devialet; the suspicion is that it may depend on the specific router being used.  Mathieu said that Devialet have had no help from Roon on this topic.  The availability of a work-around - using 100base-T - seems to be seen as acceptable.
…

Ian,

Many thanks for the report, very interesting.

Re the problems with Roon RAAT, I've long suspected that differences in user networks was at least part of the problem and the router being used could certainly be an issue since that's one of the differences that can occur in our networks.  When Mathieu said that "it may depend on the specific router being used " did you get a sense of whether he was suggesting that there was one specific router which could be the problem or that they thought there may be a number of different routers involved, and did he suggest that choice of ethernet switches may also be an issue along the same lines?

No, he didn't elaborate about what he meant by "speficic router".  Also he might have been using "router" to refer to whatever device the Roon Core and/or Devialet are connected to, whether it's a true router or a switch without router capabilities, so there is quite a bit of ambiguity there.  One other comment he made, if I remember correctly, was that he had heard of one instance where the problem also occurred with a 100base-T connection in full-duplex and it could be resolved - or rather, avoided - by running the connection in half-duplex.  All in all I don't think this tells us much that we hadn't already thought about.

Assuming that their supposition is plausible (I think it is but I'm not convinced it accounts for the whole of the problem) I can't help but think that Devialet's apparent aversion to communicating with their customers is part of the reason they're having trouble replicating it. It would be easy for them to set up a web page with a survey form asking whether or not you were having the problem and asking you to specify what router and switches you were using, and simply send out an email to all Expert owners with CI models giving them the link and asking them to respond. That would give them access to data telling them whether or niot there were any common features in the network devices people with or without the problem were using and  also make it easier to replicate the problem if there were some commonalities. Of course it would also involve a very public acknowledgement that owners are having problems.

Yes, I agree.  From my point of view it does seem that there is a willingness to have one-to-one communication with individual customers (although from reports here I am not sure how effective that is in practice), but not to engage with a community.  Working together as you said could bring benefits other than information capture: first of all, the problems are more easily reproducible so there is a ready-made test bed for potential fixes, and secondly many of the people experiencing these problems may have knowledge and insights in networking that could spark useful discoveries.

Finally, while Mathieu said that they have had no help from Roon on the problem, Roon have said on their forums that they have been in touch with Devialet and have offered assistance. In the early days after we got the Roon Ready update a number of us were having issues with Roon not recognising our amps as certified Roon Ready products. Roon fixed that issue in a number of days so they demonstrated their commitment to solving user problems rather convincingly. It's hard to believe they haven't been as committed to ensuring we get this problem solved as well so I'm more inclined to trust Roon than Devialet regarding comments on whether Roon has tried to help.

That statement of Mathieu's surprised me too for the same reasons you mentioned; unless I completely misheard, those are the words he used so there seems to be no room for interpretation.

[Pim]

Anything interesting to mention about the rest of the event? Did you guys actually get to listen to some music?

[markush]

Wow this is unfortunately really disappointing to see Devialet go on like this. They have so much budget and still don‘t care about the bug fixing, community conversation nor provide features long time ago made promises.
This is a shame for the company - at least Mathieu now tells it the way it is without faking it.

[Pim]

Wow this is unfortunately really disappointing to see Devialet go on like this. They have so much budget and still don‘t care about the bug fixing, community conversation nor provide features long time ago made promises. 
This is a shame for the company - at least Mathieu now tells it the way it is without faking it.

I wasn't exactly sworn to secrecy but I had already heard as such from a dealer. He got it from the tech that did the CI installs so it's more than a year old information. So the Expert's development is on the back burner.

It's one thing to look at this from our point of view but for Devialet, if they can only find x amount of capable engineers, commercial survival forces them to work on new products. The Expert as is though, can't be sold as a new product because half of the stuff it's meant to do doesn't work as promised. I've had mine since before the extra power, SAM, Roon and the CI board so for me it's all a bonus, whether it works or not. If I were to buy one now and things just didn't work as they should, I would probably take it back to the dealer.

All this makes me wonder; If Devialet aren't going to develop on with the Expert range, is there a plan for a new series? That would be weird because the CI board still has so much to offer. I can only see one way forward with the Expert and that is develop it to its limits; Proper Roon integration, Tidal, Qobuz, room correction, new app with all the bells and whistles. That way, if someone was looking for a super integrated, it would be a very tempting amp. Like it used to be, in the good old days.

[Gerronwithit]

Well, as a Pro owner I am quite glad I did not make a pilgrimage north to Oxford to find a man bearing no gifts whatsoever. Perhaps I should make a pilgrimage south to Salisbury where there have been continuous enhancements and innovations across their whole product range.

[spater]

Anything interesting to mention about the rest of the event? Did you guys actually get to listen to some music?

I attended the first listening session but poor Alistair struggled with a misbehaving set-up.

He started with the 140, moved to a 440 but the system behaved oddly (sound only in one speaker and heavily distorted), then on to the 1000 which sounded sublime for one song (lossless via media hub), then not so sublime for one song via Tidal.

I'm sure things improved for the second session.

[spater]

Wow this is unfortunately really disappointing to see Devialet go on like this. They have so much budget and still don‘t care about the bug fixing, community conversation nor provide features long time ago made promises. 
This is a shame for the company - at least Mathieu now tells it the way it is without faking it.

I wasn't exactly sworn to secrecy but I had already heard as such from a dealer. He got it from the tech that did the CI installs so it's more than a year old information. So the Expert's development is on the back burner.

It's one thing to look at this from our point of view but for Devialet, if they can only find x amount of capable engineers, commercial survival forces them to work on new products. The Expert as is though, can't be sold as a new product because half of the stuff it's meant to do doesn't work as promised. I've had mine since before the extra power, SAM, Roon and the CI board so for me it's all a bonus, whether it works or not. If I were to buy one now and things just didn't work as they should, I would probably take it back to the dealer.

All this makes me wonder; If Devialet aren't going to develop on with the Expert range, is there a plan for a new series? That would be weird because the CI board still has so much to offer. I can only see one way forward with the Expert and that is develop it to its limits; Proper Roon integration, Tidal, Qobuz, room correction, new app with all the bells and whistles. That way, if someone was looking for a super integrated, it would be a very tempting amp. Like it used to be, in the good old days.

Tidal and Qobuz integration won't happen as it takes ~2 years of development effort (each). By contrast, Spotify Connect took only 12 days to implement by Devialet