UK event with Mathieu Pernot - 17 July

[mdconnelly]

Its funny that nowadays everything has to be done by return of email.

The continued silence from Roon support seems a little odd don't you think.

I am also quite puzzled by Roon's silence.   My guess is that they don't want to bad mouth Devialet, but that's only a guess.   Roon's last post on the subject was from John at Roon about a month ago...

"Devialet is aware of an issue affecting the ethernet networking performance of the Expert Pro in certain scenarios. This issue is not related to the Roon Ready/RAAT protocol in any way. We suspect that users see this issue most often with Roon Ready streaming because it uses more bandwidth than Devialet Air or other protocols.

Once we have received an update from Devialet on the status of this issue, we will be sure to update this thread."

Given recent discussions with Mathieu Pernot, I suspect it'll be quite awhile before that update occurs.   Still, I think Roon can be more forthcoming as to why/how some users do not seem to experience the problem at all.

[Flashman]

Its funny that nowadays everything has to be done by return of email.

The continued silence from Roon support seems a little odd don't you think.

I am also quite puzzled by Roon's silence.   My guess is that they don't want to bad mouth Devialet, but that's only a guess.   Roon's last post on the subject was from John at Roon about a month ago...

"Devialet is aware of an issue affecting the ethernet networking performance of the Expert Pro in certain scenarios. This issue is not related to the Roon Ready/RAAT protocol in any way. We suspect that users see this issue most often with Roon Ready streaming because it uses more bandwidth than Devialet Air or other protocols.

Once we have received an update from Devialet on the status of this issue, we will be sure to update this thread."

Given recent discussions with Mathieu Pernot, I suspect it'll be quite awhile before that update occurs.   Still, I think Roon can be more forthcoming as to why/how some users do not seem to experience the problem at all.

Here's my two-cents:
-- Roon can't replicate the problem but believes it might be bandwidth issue with Devialet devices.  They have had some communications with Devialet but strongly believe it's in their court, as other Roon Ready devices apparently don't have the same issue.
-- Having worked for a French company for 16 years, and having lived in France for five years with the same company, I believe I know a little about how some French companies operate.  I have to be careful here not to make broad generalizations but here goes: There is a general reluctance to admit a problem until a resolution is found.  Once the resolution has been found, voilà! Compare that with, say, Roon, which will admit there is a problem and indicate they are working on it.  Compound that issue with the fact that Devialet hasn't been able to isolate the problem!  What we have here is a a classic cultural business issue.  And then there is the annual leave in late July/August layered on top!
Again, this is my take.  I don't wish to disparage French companies but merely to provide an observation on my experience.  Others may have a different take.

[David A]

I think it is a bandwidth issue but it's a confusing one.

The fact that it is much more common with 192/24 than lower resolutions definitely points to bandwidth. RAAT 192/24 uses more bandwidth than any other resolution streamed via RAAT and RAAT uses more bandwidth than AIR when streaming the same resolution so that makes RAAT 192/24 the most demanding bandwidth we stream. If it's a problem and lower resolutions are less of an issue or free of issues, that suggests a bandwidth issue.

BUT:

The problem occurs with gigabit ethernet connections. It does not occur with 10/100 ethernet connections to the Devialet RAAT 192/24 mayand it does not occur if one streams to the Devialet via wifi, even it the Roon source is connected to the network via gigabit ethernet. RAAT 192/24 may use more bandwidth than any other resolution we stream but it doesn't exceed the bandwidth that can be streamed via 100 Base-T ethernet connections which is significantly lower than the bandwidth capability of a gigabit connection and since the Devialet has no problems with gigabit connections at other resolutions and can successfully cope with RAAT 192/24 over a 100 Base-T connection, why does it have problems with a RAAT 192/24 signal over a gigabit connection? It can handle the bandwidth required for the musical data, that doesn't change with the speed of the connection, so why does it have trouble with a gigabit ethernet connection with high res RAAT and not with the same high res content via AIR, or more importantly, with the same high res content over RAAT when the connection to the Devialet is wifi and the Roon source is connected to the network via gigabit ethernet?

Yes, the resolution of the data stream and the higher bandwidth demands of RAAT point to a problem with the signal bandwidth but the problem doesn't occur when the Devialet receives exactly the same signal, with the same bandwidth requirements, over a connection which supports a lower transmission rate? The problem doesn't seem to be because the Devialet can't handle the demands placed on it with 192/24 over RAAT, it doesn't have any problem when it receives that over 100 Base-T ethernet or wifi and it also doesn't have a problem with 192/24 AIR (yes, I know that's a lower bandwidth requirement) over a gigabit connection. The question is why RAAT 192/24 over a gigabit ethernet connection should be an issue when a gigabit ethernet connection has no problem working with other streams so it would seem that all of the network reliability requirements are being met and RAAT 192/24 isn't a problem for the Devialet when received over a slower speed connection?

It might be very interesting if we could update the firmware for our amps over a network connection instead of via an SD card. Would there be the problems if the Devialet was receiving the data over a gigabit connection which did not occur if it received the data over wifi or a 100 Base-T connection. There's no way of telling because we can't do firmware updates over a network connection and if we could I think I'd be highly reluctant to try doing one over a gigabit ethernet connection while this problem remains unsolved.

[maxijazz]

[...] it does not occur if one streams to the Devialet via wifi, [...]

It happens to me over WiFi, daily. To my surprise, because it worked like a charm for first 6 months, on 1Gb Ethernet as well as WiFi.

[David A]

[...] it does not occur if one streams to the Devialet via wifi, [...]

It happens to me over WiFi, daily. To my surprise, because it worked like a charm for first 6 months, on 1Gb Ethernet as well as WiFi.

Your report is the first I've seen of problems with RAAT over wifi. Did you make any changes to your network around the time the problem started.

One small point: it can't have worked like a charm for the first 6 months because we only got the Roon Ready update from Devialet on 19 February, a bit over 5 months ago. When did your problems start? It would be great if you could give a reasonably accurate date so that it could be checked against the dates of Roon updates and possibly updates for your network hardware.

[Pim]

[...] it does not occur if one streams to the Devialet via wifi, [...]

It happens to me over WiFi, daily. To my surprise, because it worked like a charm for first 6 months, on 1Gb Ethernet as well as WiFi.

Your report is the first I've seen of problems with RAAT over wifi. Did you make any changes to your network around the time the problem started.

One small point: it can't have worked like a charm for the first 6 months because we only got the Roon Ready update from Devialet on 19 February, a bit over 5 months ago. When did your problems start? It would be great if you could give a reasonably accurate date so that it could be checked against the dates of Roon updates and possibly updates for your network hardware.

I use RAAT over WIFI and have the odd drop out. I can't say for sure but I have a feeling this whole thing is internet/Tidal related. We're on what's called 'Fixed Wireless', a form of the National Broadband Network here on Australia that's a total balls up. I pay for 50Mb/s and some nights around 7 I'm lucky to get a page to fully open. I can only imagine RAAT gets hung up when it's trying to get information from the net and the net's not helping.
I also have the first second missing issue, whether playing from Tidal or HDD.

[mdconnelly]

@Pim - but, but, but... these issue do not occur with other Roon RAAT endpoints.  I have two other non-Devialet RAAT endpoints that never have this problem.  That would seem to rule out internet concerns (or router concerns for that matter I would think).  I'm far more inclined to believe it is an issue with the initial RAAT handshake between RoonServer & Expert Pro when streaming hi-res content (e.g. 192kHz, 24bit).   But why it's a problem for some but not all, why it occurs on a gigabit network but not 100 mbps, why it generally doesn't occur over wifi, I haven't a clue.  We're all just surmising based on our own experiences.  If neither Roon nor Devialet can diagnose it, I can't imagine how we will.   

IMHO, the ball is in Devialet's court and they don't seem to want play ball right now.   Hopefully that will change at some point.

[NickB]

Well I think the ball is in Roon's court......

[ssfas]

... except that I did manage to get the same error using a Roon Ready Auralic Aries (see post 135 above) using wifi direct from the modem 10 feet away with a 96/24 stream.

[maxijazz]

[...] it does not occur if one streams to the Devialet via wifi, [...]

It happens to me over WiFi, daily. To my surprise, because it worked like a charm for first 6 months, on 1Gb Ethernet as well as WiFi.

Your report is the first I've seen of problems with RAAT over wifi. Did you make any changes to your network around the time the problem started.

One small point: it can't have worked like a charm for the first 6 months because we only got the Roon Ready update from Devialet on 19 February, a bit over 5 months ago. When did your problems start? It would be great if you could give a reasonably accurate date so that it could be checked against the dates of Roon updates and possibly updates for your network hardware.

Actually it started on next Roon update after we got RAAT. I remember that my first thought was that Roon screwed the update, but later I forgot about it.