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UPnP & macOS / iOS recommendations?
#1
As it seems, UPnP is the way to go whether you are on DOS1 or DOS2. I really liked Roon when I was testing it, but it is still a bit expensive for my taste and not fully supported yet. So what other options do we have? I am looking for some feedback and recommendations. 

Following some notes on this topic.

Info about the setup:
I have a Mac mini connected via Ethernet and optical to my Dialog (Airplay Enabled) playing via PLC to 2x Phantom White (BT but no Airplay). Spark allowed to stream from my Mac mini and from TIDAL without any additional load on my WiFi. So far so good. Only that the Spark App is not the most convenient, but we all know that. Unfortunately, for whatever reason not all devices (no Macs, only iOS devices) see the local Mac mini library (they did, but not anymore). But that is another discussion. Devialet Support could not find a working solution to that issue either. In addition I also have some Sonos speakers in my house which could potentially be managed by UPnP.

What am I looking for?
The best solution would be an UPnP server app running on my Mac mini that also would be able to stream TIDAL HiFi (maybe even Amazon Music HD, but there is no API as far as I know). In addition, I would like to have a macOS and iOS/iPadOS control point with a decent, modern and stable interface.

Is this the solution?
I tested a couple of servers and control points but ended up with this (temporary?) solution. A Twonky media server (I still owned a license and it would not put much strain on resources). As control point for iOS/iPadOS the mconnect app which seems to be more stable than others I tested. It has not the most beautiful interface, but it seems to work quite well. It also supports TIDAL but would stream it via WiFi (something I would like to avoid). I am still looking for an macOS app.

P.S. I also tried Linn Kazoo (Server, Control Point, Config app), but was never able to "create" a room in this setup and hence not able to play anything ...

What I also considered:
I have Amarra (running on Mac mini), but the Amarra iOS remote control app is not very reliable and responsive. I also have an eye on Audirvana which seems to have a new code base and appealing interface as well as UPnP support and TIDAL integration. It also offers a remote App. Seems to be a good offering.

Any thoughts on this topic are welcome,

Kind Regards,

seb

Mac Mini (End 2014) with Music Library organized by Bubble UPnP & Minim Server -> (Ethernet) Netgear Orbi WiFi Network / (AudioQuest Optical) -> Dialog -> 2x White Phantom DOS2 (PLC) ; Pro-Ject Carbon Debut Esprit Turntable with Ortofon Red -> (Cinch/RCA) Musical Fidelity Merlin -> (AudioQuest Optical) to Dialog ; Master & Dynamics MH40, Audeze Sine, AudioQuest Dragonfly Red; Remote Control via macOS and iOS devices (Devialet App / LUMIN / Linn Kazoo)
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#2
(30-Oct-2019, 01:56)seb Wrote: What am I looking for?
The best solution would be an UPnP server app running on my Mac mini that also would be able to stream TIDAL HiFi (maybe even Amazon Music HD, but there is no API as far as I know). In addition, I would like to have a macOS and iOS/iPadOS control point with a decent, modern and stable interface.
As you may know, I use UPnP with my Phantom Golds, with MinimServer on Linux on Intel NUC and BubbleUPnP app on Android tablet.  BubbleUPnP streams Tidal directly to the Golds.  Alas, my setup is the opposite of the Apple solution that you are looking for.

Apple has focused on Airplay and UPnP is a poor cousin.  You have done some research and probably know more of the Apple UPnP space than me.  You best bet is probably Audirvana.

The other way is a hybrid solution with a Linux server and use an iOS app but it may be going away too much from what you want.

-------
But why not evaluate Airplay again in DOS2?  Post #28 of this thread says Airplay has improved.
https://devialetchat.com/Thread-Phantom-...6#pid87526
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#3
(30-Oct-2019, 03:13)Snoopy8 Wrote:
(30-Oct-2019, 01:56)seb Wrote: What am I looking for?
The best solution would be an UPnP server app running on my Mac mini that also would be able to stream TIDAL HiFi (maybe even Amazon Music HD, but there is no API as far as I know). In addition, I would like to have a macOS and iOS/iPadOS control point with a decent, modern and stable interface.
As you may know, I use UPnP with my Phantom Golds, with MinimServer on Linux on Intel NUC and BubbleUPnP app on Android tablet.  BubbleUPnP streams Tidal directly to the Golds.  Alas, my setup is the opposite of the Apple solution that you are looking for.

Apple has focused on Airplay and UPnP is a poor cousin.  You have done some research and probably know more of the Apple UPnP space than me.  You best bet is probably Audirvana.

The other way is a hybrid solution with a Linux server and use an iOS app but it may be going away too much from what you want.

-------
But why not evaluate Airplay again in DOS2?  Post #28 of this thread says Airplay has improved.
https://devialetchat.com/Thread-Phantom-...6#pid87526

Thank you for the feedback. So if I understand you right, BubbleUPnP on Android sends TIDAL to the Phantoms. This is mirrors the solution I test right now, as mconnect would also stream TIDAL to the Dialog via WiFi (I do not think that it does MQA decoding though). This actually works seemingly well so far, but as with your solution you always need to have your mobile device around (here Spark has a clear advantage). An alternative is indeed to use the TIDAL app on the phone (or Mac) and stream via AirPlay. This works really well. You still would need an UPnP solution for local HiRes files as this is not supported by Airplay.

You are right, probably I will have to test Audirvana. I would really love to hear if somebody is running this solution. One potential advantage would be that if Audirvana does the software decoding of MQA before sending it via UPnP you would get a HiRes stream (at least Core decoding quality). The other, it would stream local HiRes files in one integrated interface and without WiFi being involved. To my knowledge there is no solution that supports Amazon Music HD yet as the Amazon App cannot be remote controlled and there is no API by Amazon to be integrated in other Apps.

Mac Mini (End 2014) with Music Library organized by Bubble UPnP & Minim Server -> (Ethernet) Netgear Orbi WiFi Network / (AudioQuest Optical) -> Dialog -> 2x White Phantom DOS2 (PLC) ; Pro-Ject Carbon Debut Esprit Turntable with Ortofon Red -> (Cinch/RCA) Musical Fidelity Merlin -> (AudioQuest Optical) to Dialog ; Master & Dynamics MH40, Audeze Sine, AudioQuest Dragonfly Red; Remote Control via macOS and iOS devices (Devialet App / LUMIN / Linn Kazoo)
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#4
Just came across Firestream, not sure you have seen this:
https://youtu.be/FPYzlqYE15U

mconnect seems to be the favoured iOS app.  My only issue with Audirvana is that it is a jack of all trades. I tried a number of Windows music players which also had UPnP capability but decided on MinimServer because it was a dedicated UPnP server. Unfortunately, UPnP implementations are a mixed bag and you always need to test combinations to see whether they can work together. 

I see MQA as an attempt to take over the music chain and can easily be turned into a digital rights management tool. We end up paying as consumers. So, not in favour of it.

Good luck with your UPnP testing..
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#5
Testing Update ...

I was able to make Linn Kazoo (free app) work within my setup. I installed the OpenHome app (http://openhome.org/pages/use/downloads/mac.html) in addition to Twonky Server on my Mac mini. Now Linn Kazoo is able to "see" my server as a "room". It now also would show TIDAL streaming as an option. I did a quick test, disconnecting my iPad running Linn Kazoo during a TIDAL playlist. It did not stop, so the stream seems to be routed from the Mac mini. The only caveat it seems is that the signal is only delivered via optical as the Mac mini also becomes the "renderer" of sorts. I could live with that though. So let's see how stable and user-friendly Linn Kazoo is.

Mac Mini (End 2014) with Music Library organized by Bubble UPnP & Minim Server -> (Ethernet) Netgear Orbi WiFi Network / (AudioQuest Optical) -> Dialog -> 2x White Phantom DOS2 (PLC) ; Pro-Ject Carbon Debut Esprit Turntable with Ortofon Red -> (Cinch/RCA) Musical Fidelity Merlin -> (AudioQuest Optical) to Dialog ; Master & Dynamics MH40, Audeze Sine, AudioQuest Dragonfly Red; Remote Control via macOS and iOS devices (Devialet App / LUMIN / Linn Kazoo)
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#6
(30-Oct-2019, 13:23)Snoopy8 Wrote: Just came across Firestream, not sure you have seen this:
https://youtu.be/FPYzlqYE15U

mconnect seems to be the favoured iOS app.  My only issue with Audirvana is that it is a jack of all trades. I tried a number of Windows music players which also had UPnP capability but decided on MinimServer because it was a dedicated UPnP server. Unfortunately, UPnP implementations are a mixed bag and you always need to test combinations to see whether they can work together. 

I see MQA as an attempt to take over the music chain and can easily be turned into a digital rights management tool. We end up paying as consumers. So, not in favour of it.

Good luck with your UPnP testing..

Thank you. Yes I came across this one as well. Did not test it though as I have a UPnP server that seems to work. An interesting alternative to mconnect as control point seems to be "Glider" (paid) and Lumin (free). Glider would not be able to manage Tidal from within the app though.

Mac Mini (End 2014) with Music Library organized by Bubble UPnP & Minim Server -> (Ethernet) Netgear Orbi WiFi Network / (AudioQuest Optical) -> Dialog -> 2x White Phantom DOS2 (PLC) ; Pro-Ject Carbon Debut Esprit Turntable with Ortofon Red -> (Cinch/RCA) Musical Fidelity Merlin -> (AudioQuest Optical) to Dialog ; Master & Dynamics MH40, Audeze Sine, AudioQuest Dragonfly Red; Remote Control via macOS and iOS devices (Devialet App / LUMIN / Linn Kazoo)
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#7
Testing Update (2) ...

Installing Open Home now also enables Lumin app to control and stream incl. Tidal. An additional alternative to Linn Kazoo with very nice and fast Album/Title presentation.

Mac Mini (End 2014) with Music Library organized by Bubble UPnP & Minim Server -> (Ethernet) Netgear Orbi WiFi Network / (AudioQuest Optical) -> Dialog -> 2x White Phantom DOS2 (PLC) ; Pro-Ject Carbon Debut Esprit Turntable with Ortofon Red -> (Cinch/RCA) Musical Fidelity Merlin -> (AudioQuest Optical) to Dialog ; Master & Dynamics MH40, Audeze Sine, AudioQuest Dragonfly Red; Remote Control via macOS and iOS devices (Devialet App / LUMIN / Linn Kazoo)
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#8
(30-Oct-2019, 14:41)seb Wrote: Testing Update (2) ...

Installing Open Home now also enables Lumin app to control and stream incl. Tidal. An additional alternative to Linn Kazoo with very nice and fast Album/Title presentation.

Both Kazoo and Lumin are Open home Control apps and communicate with Open home servers and renderers. One of the advantages of Open home is that the play queue is shareable and not owned exclusively by the Control point, hence the ability to close the Control point.

As you have discovered you can enable the Mac server to become Open home enabled. You may also be interested in BubbleUPNP Server which enables Renderers to be Open home compatible, I.e. the Phantoms could become compatible, be ‘seen’ by Kazoo and Lumin and enable the bypass of the optical output.

Nb - I have tried this with an Oppo BDP but not a Phantom
Kit: Oppo BDP-103EU (Vanity HD board mod), Sky+HD, Dell laptop tuned with Audiophile Optimizer 3.0 and running EQ software (Voxengo Curve), laptop input via miniDSP UDIO-8; output via RME Digiface. Watch: Panasonic PT-AT6000E, Panasonic TX-L55ET61B. Listen: Devialet Gold Phantom fronts and sides in Direct Optical mode.
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#9
(30-Oct-2019, 16:57)alandbush Wrote:
(30-Oct-2019, 14:41)seb Wrote: Testing Update (2) ...

Installing Open Home now also enables Lumin app to control and stream incl. Tidal. An additional alternative to Linn Kazoo with very nice and fast Album/Title presentation.

Both Kazoo and Lumin are Open home Control apps and communicate with Open home servers and renderers.  One of the advantages of Open home is that the play queue is shareable and not owned exclusively by the Control point, hence the ability to close the Control point.

As you have discovered you can enable the Mac server to become Open home enabled.  You may also be interested in BubbleUPNP Server which enables Renderers to be Open home compatible, I.e. the Phantoms could become compatible, be ‘seen’ by Kazoo and Lumin and enable the bypass of the optical output.

Nb - I have tried this with an Oppo BDP but not a Phantom


Thanks. This sounds Interesting. There is a Bubble UPnP Server for Mac. The only thing I do not like that much is that it runs on JAVA. But I guess I will give it a try. As I just discovered. The OpenHome App seems to be overwhelmed by longer playlists and would sometimes simply stop working. It then needs to be restarted.

Mac Mini (End 2014) with Music Library organized by Bubble UPnP & Minim Server -> (Ethernet) Netgear Orbi WiFi Network / (AudioQuest Optical) -> Dialog -> 2x White Phantom DOS2 (PLC) ; Pro-Ject Carbon Debut Esprit Turntable with Ortofon Red -> (Cinch/RCA) Musical Fidelity Merlin -> (AudioQuest Optical) to Dialog ; Master & Dynamics MH40, Audeze Sine, AudioQuest Dragonfly Red; Remote Control via macOS and iOS devices (Devialet App / LUMIN / Linn Kazoo)
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#10
(30-Oct-2019, 17:35)seb Wrote: As I just discovered. The OpenHome App seems to be overwhelmed by longer playlists and would sometimes simply stop working. It then needs to be restarted.

BubbleUPNP server can similarly enable Open home capability for media servers as well as renderers.
I cannot vouch if it is better at handling large play queues however.
Kit: Oppo BDP-103EU (Vanity HD board mod), Sky+HD, Dell laptop tuned with Audiophile Optimizer 3.0 and running EQ software (Voxengo Curve), laptop input via miniDSP UDIO-8; output via RME Digiface. Watch: Panasonic PT-AT6000E, Panasonic TX-L55ET61B. Listen: Devialet Gold Phantom fronts and sides in Direct Optical mode.
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