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Word clock input
#1
With more and more people digging into external clocks, wouldn`t it be great if the next improvement from Devialet included a dedicated input for accepting external clock signals?

This could bring a substantial improvement to SQ.

What.would.it take to implement it? I wonder....

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#2
Personally I think this would be a step backwards unless you're interested in tinkering and/or enjoy spending money on more boxes and cables.

I'm interested to know what makes you think this would bring substantial improvements to SQ.  What specifically do you think is wrong with the current clocking set-up?

As far as I can see the only input that might conceivably benefit from this is AES where the sample-rate clock is recovered from the input stream.  But even then I suppose it depends on the details of how the resulting samples are re-sampled by the Devialet's internal clock, which we don't have much (any?) information about.

PS: I think you meant "word clock" rather than "world clock".
Roon (Mac Mini), Wilson Benesch Full Circle, Sonos ZP90 (Cullen modified), Devialet 440 Pro CI, Kaiser Chiara
Warwickshire, UK
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#3
(07-Sep-2018, 10:33)Fragoulisnaval Wrote: With more and more people digging into external clocks, wouldn`t it be great if the next improvement from Devialet included a dedicated input for accepting external clock signals?

This could bring a substantial improvement to SQ.

Exactly how?
VortexBox running LMS & Linux Roon Core, Devialet 440 pro CI, Logitech Transporter, Palmer 2.5 Turntable, Koetsu Black Goldline and Harbeth M30.1.
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#4
(07-Sep-2018, 10:56)thumb5 Wrote: Personally I think this would be a step backwards unless you're interested in tinkering and/or enjoy spending money on more boxes and cables.

I'm interested to know what makes you think this would bring substantial improvements to SQ.  What specifically do you think is wrong with the current clocking set-up?

As far as I can see the only input that might conceivably benefit from this is AES where the sample-rate clock is recovered from the input stream.  But even then I suppose it depends on the details of how the resulting samples are re-sampled by the Devialet's internal clock, which we don't have much (any?) information about.

PS: I think you meant "word clock" rather than "world clock".

(07-Sep-2018, 15:10)disarmamant Wrote:
(07-Sep-2018, 10:33)Fragoulisnaval Wrote: With more and more people digging into external clocks, wouldn`t it be great if the next improvement from Devialet included a dedicated input for accepting external clock signals?

This could bring a substantial improvement to SQ.

Exactly how?

From what i have read so far, the CI upgrade bringing along a better clock, has brought an increase in SQ of the new units. All inputs have benefited from this more or less.

We all know that Devialet dac internally is re-sampling the input signal (the signal being digital or analog), in dual-mono configuration it is more evident.

So, what better if Devialet could receive the same word clack as with the rest of the chain?

The mechanism/logic behind it is that it will work the same way as it already does to sotm, mutec and the rest. Reducing jitter.
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#5
Well, in that case I am tempted to ask:
  • what jitter are you referring to?
  • how much is there at the moment?
  • would it be reduced by taking an external clock, if so how?
  • would that difference be audible?
Otherwise isn't this just entirely speculation?
Roon (Mac Mini), Wilson Benesch Full Circle, Sonos ZP90 (Cullen modified), Devialet 440 Pro CI, Kaiser Chiara
Warwickshire, UK
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#6
@thumb5 with all due respect I think @Fragoulisnaval's suggestion is good. A word clock input on an Expert amp could definitely be beneficial. After all a word clock input is just a reference to which the internal clocking of the Expert 'locks'. Same as the clock in the Mutec MC3-USB or SOtM gear. Using a REF 10 with these devices improves the sound quality. At least @Confused has this experience.
There may be other issues with Expert amps that are more important to get done. A convolver in the DSP for example, but an option to enable one of the digital inputs as a wc input would be nice IMHO.
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microRendu 1.4::LPS-1::USPCB::Mutec MC-3+USB::250 Pro CI::Roon life, Core on Intel NUC with Debian Linux, music on USB3 disk::Audiolense 5.3::Monitor Audio MA201 (thoroughly rebuilt, now with a SAM profile)


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#7
@ogs: re-reading my post it seems to have a rather negative and hostile tone, so I don't think much respect is due in this case.

@Fragoulisnaval: sorry for not being more constructive.
Roon (Mac Mini), Wilson Benesch Full Circle, Sonos ZP90 (Cullen modified), Devialet 440 Pro CI, Kaiser Chiara
Warwickshire, UK
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#8
I might be wrong, but I suspect that it is highly unlikely that Devialet would ever include a word clock input on the Expert amp. It is just a hunch, but it somehow does not fit with the philosophy of the brand.

Another issue is that the external clock would need to be a lot better than the internal clock. The internal clock has the advantage that it can be positioned exactly where it is needed, so no cable losses. So with an external clock you need a very good clock (expensive), and very good cables (low loss, short, and expensive).

Another thought is that the Devialet does have S/PDIF AES3 inputs, where the Devialet can "lock" onto the clock from the source. This is not quite the same a word clock input, an AES3 input is far more complicated than a word clock connection, and needs to be able to deal with the audio signal and clock rates at 44.1kHz, 48kHz, 88.2kHz and so on. However, if you feed the AES3 input the same family rate that the DAC (ADH) is using, then the Devialet can lock onto the clock without having to do any fractional conversions, you should, in theory, get a result very similar to using a separate word clock feed.

The S/PDIF and AES/EBU inputs can accept up to 192kHz. There was a Devialet white paper a while ago that stated that ADH native rate is 40bit 384kHz. (348=192 x 2 or 48 x 8) So based on this admittedly very limited information on the inner workings of a Devialet, I would say that if you feed the amp with a good quality "clocked" feed at a 48kHz family rate, then the results should be equivalent to that gained in a word clock equipped set-up.

I must emphasise that I am writing this with very little knowledge of the finer details of Devialet's implementation of the AES/EBU or S/PDIF inputs, so it is just a moderately informed theory on my part. That said, I now seem to be getting VERY good results feeding the Devialet from the REF10 / MC3+USB, using upsampling to 192kHz. So it is just a subjective view and it might sound good for other technical reasons I am not aware of, but maybe there is something in this, and maybe we just do not need a word clock input to get superb results.

When all is said and done, the current Expert Pro range does not have a word clock input, so you have to work with what you have, but that may not be much of a limitation I would say.
1000 Pro - KEF Blade - microRendu - Mutec MC3+USB - Pro-Ject Signature 12
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