(09-Jul-2016, 12:35)Pim van Vliet Wrote: [ -> ] (09-Jul-2016, 12:26)Antoine Wrote: [ -> ]So D200 owners paid €2000 more compared to the D120 and both can be upgraded to the same model for the same price. I'm sure this'll please the owners of their most popular D200 model. Devialet logic...you gotta love it..LOL 
They might charge a little bit more for the 120 upgrade because customers get more too. That would make sense....and therefore probably won't happen. 
I agree with the sentiment, that is 120 owners getting the upgrade to the new 240 at the same price as a 200 owner does appear unfair. (although probably seams fine to D120 owners)
However, unfair or not, it is logical. The upgrade appears to more or less replace all the internals, so in actual costs, surely this will be the same actual cost for a 120 versus a 200. Unfair maybe, but it does appear to be logical.
Reasoning like that there's no logic in any of it and a D800 for example wouldn't need to be €10,000 more expensive than a D400.
All differences are mostly semi artificial. D200 and D250 hardware is identical except for the case. They've made some modifications to that same hardware for the 120 (removed an input or two, lowered it's maximum power output in software and made some changes to the D-AMP board and some other stuff) to artificially deflate the price. Cost/parts wise though they'll probably save €15 or so which in reality will never be saved because of the overhead costs of producing more than one hardware revision at once.
(09-Jul-2016, 15:32)Confused Wrote: [ -> ]However, unfair or not, it is logical. The upgrade appears to more or less replace all the internals, so in actual costs, surely this will be the same actual cost for a 120 versus a 200. Unfair maybe, but it does appear to be logical.
I think upgrades costing the same for 120 and 200 owners will upset their biggest user base. Im sure many (like me) bought a 200 for the extra facilities 'just in case' even if they weren't necessarily used (option to add a companion, phono option, etc) and for better resale for the same reason. Making the upgrades the same price on both models essentially kills the used market for 200's as everyone with any sense would get a 120 and upgrade it. Plus is just seems plain unfair. It's logical and illogical at the same time. Taking all that into account, Devialet will almost certainly do it.
In any case by your logic, shouldn't everyone be able to upgrade from a 120 or 200 to a 250 (or 400 to 800) by just paying for a new case and keeping their previous innards? Now that I would go for (and then sell it).
For me, if upgrade cost really is about 3500€, there will be no upgrade. I'm currently building house and it's way too expensive (50% D200 price I bought in 2013 ! This leaves room to buy other pieces of gear or save a lot of money!)
If upgrade cost is the same for D120 owners, this is a great opportunity for them but I do think that :
- it's really unfair and i'd consider it as a "betrayal" upon D200 users because if I'd known I'd bought a D120 instead of D200...(D120 + upgrade = 8500€ so same price as anticipated newcoming D200 so FREE upgrade....vs D200 + upgrade = 10500€)
- D200 users should get a discount on upgrade as a commercial geisture (2000-2500€ would be a far better deal), so everyone would be pleased and it'd be more honest. Maybe special offer for the customers suscribing on the mailing list ?
- i don't talk about d250 or ODA but there should be solutions I hope
This is just my opinion and still speculation but I think Devialet should take our opinions seriously...
(09-Jul-2016, 16:40)Hifi_swlon Wrote: [ -> ] (09-Jul-2016, 15:32)Confused Wrote: [ -> ]However, unfair or not, it is logical. The upgrade appears to more or less replace all the internals, so in actual costs, surely this will be the same actual cost for a 120 versus a 200. Unfair maybe, but it does appear to be logical.
I think upgrades costing the same for 120 and 200 owners will upset their biggest user base. Im sure many (like me) bought a 200 for the extra facilities 'just in case' even if they weren't necessarily used (option to add a companion, phono option, etc) and for better resale for the same reason. Making the upgrades the same price on both models essentially kills the used market for 200's as everyone with any sense would get a 120 and upgrade it. Plus is just seems plain unfair. It's logical and illogical at the same time. Taking all that into account, Devialet will almost certainly do it.
In any case by your logic, shouldn't everyone be able to upgrade from a 120 or 200 to a 250 (or 400 to 800) by just paying for a new case and keeping their previous innards? Now that I would go for (and then sell it).
If it turns out to be true, I'm going to be kicking myself for not accepting a 120 + Cash trade for my 200 offer had one time.
This guessing game and all the speculations about models and prices are starting to drive me nuts now! For me personally there are two ways this could go now:
A) The upgrade proves to be a1) less expensive and/or a2) even better than previously guessed. If so, I'll keep my D400.
B) The upgrade is as expensive as feared and/or does not meet our expectations regarding price value and function (an integrated streamer seems to be a priority for many of us [this and the new OS could also be why Devialet haven't tried to solve the problems with AIR]). If so, I'll trade in my D400 for something else and leave Devialet as a brand indefinitely.
For me hifi has a central part in my life and I have taken great pride in being a Devialet owner for years. I bought my first Devialet with a feeling of getting one of the best amplifiers in the world, but that feeling is starting to wear off now. Their behavior is increasingly erratic in a way that makes me doubt that they will remain a company in the upper echelon of hifi for long. Customers who are prepared to pay this amount of money for high end gear simply expect a completely different standard of customer service, with a great amount of tact and finess when communicating externally. I know I do.
Lets hope I'm wrong and that they can turn this around into something really beautiful.
One way Devialet Management should do (not to further annoy its worldwide users) - make announcement on the coming first working day the details of the new models, upgrade plans for the current Expert, the prices. So we can decide what we choose to go. Stop the wild guess!
Yes, it is annoying.
Look on the bright side D200 users, if D200 second hand values do get utterly trashed due to this upgrade debacle, it could be a very good time to pick up a second one to go D400 dual mono....
(09-Jul-2016, 17:21)G51 Wrote: [ -> ]One way Devialet Management should do (not to further annoy its worldwide users) - make announcement on the coming first working day the details of the new models, upgrade plans for the current Expert, the prices. So we can decide what we choose to go. Stop the wild guess!
Yes, it is annoying.
While nothing is official yet and could even be subject to change it is more than just speculation when three users, each having their own sources report more or less the same.
I do agree with you all. For me, buying D200 + 805D2 was some kind of financial sacrifice (loan...) and I'd be really sad to feel "left behind" as I really seriously took into account one hardware with software upgrades for "lifetime". At this rate, they'll someday announce that we won't get devialet os and upnp if we.don't upgrade....please.devialet, it really is time to make announcement....(and to read this forum with much attention)