Devialet Chat

(15-May-2018, 17:08)RebelMan Wrote: [ -> ]

(15-May-2018, 16:01)zdenes Wrote: [ -> ]

(15-May-2018, 15:50)RebelMan Wrote: [ -> ]That's because there is nothing wrong with the source.

Nothing wrong with a Macbook. I have a Macbook Pro myself. A perfect laptop computer. 

It is also a superb source.  That's why the engineer (as am I) "politely" stated what he did.  If you want to debate the matter further we'll probably need to take it up in a new thread.

Although I have a degree in physics but have worked in other professions, so my knowledge now is only enough to follow arguments for and against certain digital sources, not enough to debate over them. 

I would not even go into summarizing what I learned over a period of time on different digital interfaces, connections and protocols reading information on the internet. It's time-consuming and may not be accurate, I'd rather listen to music. But as we all know USB, AES/EBU, optical, ethernet have their own protocols and to lesser or more extent are influenced by both the clock at the source and at the receiving end. For one, USB is in packets and the receiving end is more important (but not exclusively) while AES/EBU also transfers the embedded clock signal. If anybody is interested, this a digestible source of information 
https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/...nterfacing

and another introductory level talk on USB https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBLto-DlGJo

Last week in Munich, Mathieu clearly acknowledged that the SQ can improve with a better source whatever better might mean. But less jitter is better and less noise is also better. And better cables is also better.

In my 8 years with Devialet amps (D-Premier, D250, D800) I have tried a large number of sources for extended periods (most of them I owned). Accuphase, Theta Digital, MSB, C.E.C transports to name a few, laptops and desktops running Windows, MacOS, or Linux with JRiver, Audirvana, Amarra, iTunes, Roon, HQPlayer and Bughead (maybe more). Also professional playback devices such as the Merging HAPI with Ravenna 67 protocol. 

I tried all inputs on Devialet over and over again with the exception of HDMI which most of us don't have any more anyway. 

Also many ethernet cables, USB cables, AES/EBU cables, etc from off the shelf products to high priced audio brands. 
I can only say that they all sounded different, sometimes the difference was little sometimes huge. 

Let me just say, in my experience, the MacBook didn't make the shortlist. In fact, it took me quite a struggle to achieve computer playback that matched my MSB transport with CDs. Finally, I exceeded that level so I could sell the MSB but it was a lot of trial and error and also thanks to a friend from the studio world who helped me with both advice and lending me quite a few pieces of hardware to try. 

Is my system the best possible? Surely not. There are extremely good one box streamers/playback devices as the Auralis G2 (I liked the sound in Munich a lot), Totaldac, dCS Network Bridge and others that I have not tried in my system.  

Zoltan

To quote @RebelMan "Ethernet is the best way to fly, not USB. No jitter at the (ether) interface only at the DAC. Keep your system simple for the best sound. What you observed could have been predicted. Nice job!" So curiously, we all seam to be agreed that a MacBook Pro via USB is not the best source.

At one time (not with a Devialet) I did try a set-up that used a long USB cable, this did not sound good. So I am quite sure that any laptop with a 5m USB cable will not be the best source with a Devialet, or anything else for that matter. As for a MacBook Pro via Ethernet / AIR, this should work well, you would need a pretty decent (expensive) source to do better.

(16-May-2018, 16:26)zdenes Wrote: [ -> ]Last week in Munich, Mathieu clearly acknowledged that the SQ can improve with a better source whatever better might mean. But less jitter is better and less noise is also better. And better cables is also better.

Perhaps in theory, but like you said what is better?  As for jitter and noise less is better but not always relevant.  As for cables... don't get me started.

zdenes Wrote:In my 8 years with Devialet amps (D-Premier, D250, D800) I have tried a large number of sources for extended periods (most of them I owned). Accuphase, Theta Digital, MSB, C.E.C transports to name a few, laptops and desktops running Windows, MacOS, or Linux with JRiver, Audirvana, Amarra, iTunes, Roon, HQPlayer and Bughead (maybe more). Also professional playback devices such as the Merging HAPI with Ravenna 67 protocol. 

I tried all inputs on Devialet over and over again with the exception of HDMI which most of us don't have any more anyway. 

Also many ethernet cables, USB cables, AES/EBU cables, etc from off the shelf products to high priced audio brands. 
I can only say that they all sounded different, sometimes the difference was little sometimes huge. 

Let me just say, in my experience, the MacBook didn't make the shortlist. In fact, it took me quite a struggle to achieve computer playback that matched my MSB transport with CDs. Finally, I exceeded that level so I could sell the MSB but it was a lot of trial and error and also thanks to a friend from the studio world who helped me with both advice and lending me quite a few pieces of hardware to try. 

Is my system the best possible? Surely not. There are extremely good one box streamers/playback devices as the Auralis G2 (I liked the sound in Munich a lot), Totaldac, dCS Network Bridge and others that I have not tried in my system.  

Zoltan

If you've been in this hobby long enough chances are you will have traveled many roads looking for audio bliss.  While such travels broadens one's experiences they do not preclude the travels of someone else and therefore NO conclusions can be drawn other than they were just different.  Unfortunately, many, perhaps most, audio travelers are unaware of the realities of the trip and are too often easily persuaded by myths and untruths.  Well, this hobby isn't a religious one, it is a scientific one.  

Far be it from me to dispute anyone's opinion about their experiences.  Though their experience may lead them to conclude one way or another that doesn't necessarily make the conclusion true even though it seems true to them.

To say that a MacBook is "A perfect laptop computer." implies that is all it is good for, that it is not suitable for use as a primary (audiophile grade) source device given all of your experiences.  I am here to tell you that is not true, not just because my experience contradicts it but also because real data supports it.  I do not use a MacBook in my system only because it is too impractical for my needs so instead I use a mac mini.  And not only is my Mac an outstanding source device there is NONE better.  My Mac has ZERO mods and there are ZERO adapters in the signal path.  It uses a robust ethernet based configuration and a simple USB DAS.

If you prefer an expensive, elaborate, convoluted, multi-stack system as your source device then who am I to argue?  The reality though is it isn't required nor is it necessary to achieve the best performance.  In my experience the simplest circuits make the best sounding ones.

(16-May-2018, 16:51)Confused Wrote: [ -> ]To quote @RebelMan "Ethernet is the best way to fly, not USB.  No jitter at the (ether) interface only at the DAC.  Keep your system simple for the best sound.  What you observed could have been predicted.  Nice job!"  So curiously, we all seam to be agreed that a MacBook Pro via USB is not the best source.  

At one time (not with a Devialet) I did try a set-up that used a long USB cable, this did not sound good.  So I am quite sure that any laptop with a 5m USB cable will not be the best source with a Devialet, or anything else for that matter.  As for a MacBook Pro via Ethernet / AIR, this should work well, you would need a pretty decent (expensive) source to do better.

I want to clarify that using USB is not a bad choice just not the best one.  Sadly, it has too many restrictions and caveat's to make it work optimally.  I'm calling it here first folks, the future is all about IEEE 802.  Not USB, not HDMI, not Thunderbolt, not you name it.

Glad to hear that IT engineers at Apple have eliminated the need for the work of audio engineers (the religious types that believe that it matters) at dCS, Wadia, Mark Levinson, Weiss, Accuphase, Theta Digital, Esoteric, not leave out Sony and Phillips and the new wave of sect members from Innous, Auralic, Linn, SOtM, Aurender, Bricasti, Sonore, etc. 

Poor guys have spent an accumulated thousand years looking for the holy grail because nobody told them that they are running in a vicious circle where everything sounds different but never better and should pick up a Mac Mini from the middle of the circle and look for another job. Next year in Munich I will try to convince them.

Has this thread got a bit off topic? 

A laptop the best source, cables don’t make ANY difference, thought I was logged onto Computer Audiophile

(17-May-2018, 06:59)zdenes Wrote: [ -> ]Glad to hear that IT engineers at Apple have eliminated the need for the work of audio engineers (the religious types that believe that it matters) at dCS, Wadia, Mark Levinson, Weiss, Accuphase, Theta Digital, Esoteric, not leave out Sony and Phillips and the new wave of sect members from Innous, Auralic, Linn, SOtM, Aurender, Bricasti, Sonore, etc. 

Pour guys have spent an accumulated thousand years looking for the holy grail because nobody told them that they are running in a vicious circle where everything sounds different but never better and should pick up a Mac Mini from the middle of the circle and look for another job. Next year in Munich I will try to convince them.

Let me remind you this is a business first.  High cost, which you are alluding to, is driven by hype but mostly by the economies of scale and not engineering prowess.  Furthermore, it is NOT indicative of high performance, not even close.  There are countless examples but I'll offer you one, the Simaudio Moon CP-8.  Ever hear about that?  I rest my case.

It's a difficult process to change the minds of the technically unaware once the audio propoganda takes hold.  But if this hobby has any chance of surviving we got to quit blowing smoke up in people's ears.

(17-May-2018, 07:19)Carcrashboy Wrote: [ -> ]Has this thread got a bit off topic? 

Yes, but if the information helps just one reader then how more on topic can you get?

(17-May-2018, 09:25)RebelMan Wrote: [ -> ]

(17-May-2018, 06:59)zdenes Wrote: [ -> ]Glad to hear that IT engineers at Apple have eliminated the need for the work of audio engineers (the religious types that believe that it matters) at dCS, Wadia, Mark Levinson, Weiss, Accuphase, Theta Digital, Esoteric, not leave out Sony and Phillips and the new wave of sect members from Innous, Auralic, Linn, SOtM, Aurender, Bricasti, Sonore, etc. 

Pour guys have spent an accumulated thousand years looking for the holy grail because nobody told them that they are running in a vicious circle where everything sounds different but never better and should pick up a Mac Mini from the middle of the circle and look for another job. Next year in Munich I will try to convince them.

Let me remind you this is a business first.  High cost, which you are alluding to, is driven by hype but mostly by the economies of scale and not engineering prowess.  Furthermore, it is NOT indicative of high performance, not even close.  There are countless examples but I'll offer you one, the Simaudio Moon CP-8.  Ever hear about that?  I rest my case.

It's a difficult process to change the minds of the technically unaware once the audio propoganda takes hold.  But if this hobby has any chance of surviving we got to quit blowing smoke up in people's ears.

For a lot of us this a very pleasurable hobby, for me 49 years and counting. We are not fools, we have lived through the whole CD quality will never be beaten, the first iPhone is the only we will never need, Coke bringing out the best bottled water EVER. Life is a business now, from Mac laptop to breakfast to the Kardashians. But YOU CAN hear differences in different sources cables, amps, speakers. Not all food tastes the same to people, not all people hear the same thing. Anyway have a good day, I am listening to 2 Pairs of PMC speakers that are displaying different bass characteristics but both enjoyable. Go figure.

APOLOGIES to the moderators and other forum members.

My previous post is mainly borne out of frustration with problems I am experiencing with my setup at present, something is just not right with it and I have wasted many hours trying to sort it.

That, and the wedding, and Meghan’s Dad, just awful news.

Anyway I now off this thread, regardless of what I read.