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~$10K speaker budget - Focal Kanta 2/3s or choose something else?
#11
(19-Nov-2020, 02:31)zambie Wrote: I've seen a few of you have been quite happy with the 804 d3s .... any quirks I should be aware of? I probably need to check efficiency of these speakers and whether my 220pro can drive them well as well as how low the bass goes ... some homework to be done I guess

I haven't seen any overt mention of the Wilson Sabrinas - anyone have these and can point me on what to expect?

I used to have 804d3 and now I have Sabrina's. So obviously I prefer Sabrina’s. 
B&W 804d3 and Sabrina sound very different. Both are very good speakers and both can be driven well by D220. I think the choice between these speakers depends a mainly on taste.
Enjoy the audition!

Simon

Aurender X100L (+Qobuz)  ~   D220 Pro CI   ~   Wilson Audio Sabrina  +  Velodyne DD10+
Signal Cables: USB: Audioquest Diamond  -  Speaker: Nordost Tyr  -  Sub RCA cable: QED Reference 40
Power Cables: Shunyata Alpha EF (D220), Shunyata Alpha NR (Aurender), Furutech TCS21 (Velodyne)
Resonance Control: Bassocontinuo (rack); CeraBase slimline (footers)
- The Netherlands -            April 2020
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#12
@BoyScout
@sdn660
Yes - the Sabrinas - it was definitely an experience. It was quite revelatory - which also probably speaks to how unoptimized I have had my own setup and how much importance speaker placement and room nodes /correction matter. More on that below. The difference between the Sabrinas and BW 804s was quite stark.


@David A
Really sound advice that - and appreciate that you got me thinking of focussing on the music and the experience that it delivered - that counts over and above everything else.

So, I took your advice and headed to the audition with an open mind. They didn't have to try real hard in terms of placement etc to really make the Sabrinas sing. It definitely yielded a markedly different experience from some of the other speakers that we auditioned. Unfortunately, the 804d3s and the Sonus Faber Olympica IIIs couldn't really replicate the imaging and soundstage dimensionality of the Sabrinas. I really was hoping the Sonus Fabers would do better 'cos I have just fallen in love with their aesthetics. Gorgeous and then some!!

Sabrinas:
+ves: with acoustic music, vocals, live performances and such they absolutely sparkled - great soundstage and pinpoint imaging of the vocals and instruments. Very cool - and I was actually surprised to hear some details and nuances in texture of music - wasn't expecting things to be revealing from that standpoint since I had heard that this wasn't the most resolving speakers
-ves: definitely heavy rock & metal. I played some dark metal/ old school british heavy metal and they left a bit to be desired honestly. I was hoping they'd just switch up and get me a klipsch conrwall at that point so I could headbang to. The music was too muted, vocals while placed nicely - were too recessed, guitar riffs just not aggressive enough.
Other negative is bass: but I think that's actually a negative on me I think - I'm coming to the realization that I'm actually a bit of a bass head - go figure!!!

BW804d3s:
+ves: Tweeter was definitely impressive and it was playing rock / metal much better than the Sabrinas without doubt (but again - don't think they'd really hold a candle to a klipsch)
-ves: soundstage was definitely lacking - no where close to the height and width I experienced with the Sabrinas unfortunately. I did enquire whether there were more tweaks they could do in placement and such to make things a little more holographic. And while they did agree to that, they mentioned that it wouldn't still be quite as close as the Sabrinas. Interesting comment.

Sonus Fabers: They were just a bit too laid back for my liking - might have been that the room was too dead to begin with and that got magnified with the SF's output ....

Net net: I am going to trial the Sabrina's at home for a week and see how it performs at home and whether it can overcome some of it's deficiencies of playing hard rock/ metal. That's the only thing that I'm feeling a little upset about incase I go down this path. I don't want to have to forego my rock music proclivities.

Other things I've realized:
I realized just how boomy my actual apartment is - all speakers that I auditioned with the dealers these last couple of days sounded like their bass was watered down than what I experience at home (that said they were articulate) - and it's finally dawning upon me at how boomy my room is. I've never cared to undertake room correction (either with diffusers/ absorption boards or through software). Definitely something that I need to pay attention to especially if it is robbing away from some of the musical clarity/ details. While I don't think I'll ever actually want a listening environment that is too dead, I definitely do want to make some subtle updates to my room to reduce the boominess.

Speaker placement along with subtle room correction definitely is going to be the next thing I focus on to get more adept around. No point spending this kind of money if I'm going to be lazy with those two things ... so, if you have books/ resources that you feel I should read up on, please share my way - will be much indebted.

Again - thanks for all the inputs and advice along the way!

Quick question: hahaha - what do people think of the Tannoy DC10As? Anyone?
Panamax MR4000 power conditioner > Devialet 220pro CI > Martin Logan Motion 60xt
Macbook Pro/ Onkyo DP-X1 source | Digital playback: Vox
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#13
@zambie ,

Dealing with rooms is a problem for all of us. There are 2 options. One is to get an architect with experience on acoustic design jobs to design a room for you. I've been in a few such rooms and come away impressed but in every case getting that room was part of a house design or redesign and that is expensive. The other option is to deal with the room you have which is a lot less financially challenging and a lot more challenging in other ways. That's the way most of us go.

Dealing with the room starts with speaker placement and listening position. Electronic correction like Sweet Room or physical acoustic treatment can help but both will deliver their best results if you've got a good setup of the speakers and listening position to start with. Whether you use electronic or physical treatments, it's a lot easier to get good results if you've got a good setup of the speakers and listening position and if you can get a good setup for them you may well be happy to just live with that and not go down either room correction path.

There's lots of "systems" out there, many of them claiming to be the best. My feeling is that the best ones work in some rooms but not all rooms, room proportions often favour some systems over others and pretty much every system I've seen assumes you have a rectangular room. That's great for those of us like me who don't have rectangular rooms (mine is L-shaped). Experimentation is the name of the game so be prepared to try moving the speakers back and forward and from side to side a bit, and the listening position back and forward a bit. Small moves can sometimes make surprisingly large differences.

Have fun with the Sabrinas for the week you've got them for.
Roon Nucleus+, Devilalet Expert 140 Pro CI, Focal Sopra 2, PS Audio P12, Keces P8 LPS, Uptone Audio EtherREGEN with optical fibre link to my router, Shunyata Alpha NR and Sigma NR power cables, Shunyata Sigma ethernet cables, Shunyata Alpha V2 speaker cables, Grand Prix Audio Monaco rack, RealTRAPS acoustic treatment.

Brisbane, Qld, Australia
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#14
On Audiogon there is now a pair of Rockport Atrias for $9000. They are fantastic speakers. Rockport are highly regarded by some (not only me), see for example https://www.soundstageultra.com/index.ph...itive-list
Acoustic Signature/Soundsmith Aida II- jRiver/Asus NUC/Audiophile Optimizer/Process Lasso/USB - Devialet D-Premier - Rockport Ankaa
AQ Vodka/Curious USB/Nordost Valhalla & Tyr/Ansuz Mainz D8 & C 
Isoacoustics OREA/Shunyata Dark Field/Nordost QV
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#15
(21-Nov-2020, 03:37)zambie Wrote: Speaker placement along with subtle room correction definitely is going to be the next thing I focus on to get more adept around. No point spending this kind of money if I'm going to be lazy with those two things ... so, if you have books/ resources that you feel I should read up on, please share my way - will be much indebted.

Although on loan, I would still expect the Sabrinas to be properly installed as per the Wilson Audio Setup Process (WASP).  Although best left to experienced installers, the process is not a secret.
Check out WASP here.
Kit: Oppo BDP-103EU (Vanity HD board mod), Sky+HD, Dell laptop tuned with Audiophile Optimizer 3.0 and running EQ software (Voxengo CurveEQ), laptop input via miniDSP UDIO-8; output via RME Digiface. Watch: Panasonic PT-AT6000E, Panasonic TX-L55ET61B. Listen: Devialet Gold Phantom fronts and sides in Direct Optical mode.
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#16
(21-Nov-2020, 03:37)zambie Wrote:  I really was hoping the Sonus Fabers would do better 'cos I have just fallen in love with their aesthetics. Gorgeous and then some!!


Sonus Fabers: They were just a bit too laid back for my liking - might have been that the room was too dead to begin with and that got magnified with the SF's output ....

I have a particular preference for Sonus Faber speakers, i had a lot of them. It´s a very good balance between performance and aesthetics.
I tryied a pair of Olympica lll for about five or six months before returned them back to the shop. It was a desilusion for me, maybe just because i was used with my previous Extrema or prefer floor stand speakers, i don´t know.
Innuos ZenMini, Devialet 220 Pro CI, Black Sixteen speaker cables, Sonus Faber Guarneri Tradition and a pair of ears.
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#17
(21-Nov-2020, 12:33)frejo Wrote: On Audiogon there is now a pair of Rockport Atrias for $9000. They are fantastic speakers. Rockport are highly regarded by some (not only me), see for example https://www.soundstageultra.com/index.ph...itive-list

I'll need to see if there's any dealer in the Seattle area selling them - so I can listen. Unfortunately - it's super difficult to buy a speaker without listening to them Sad ... thanks for sending me that link - really good read to know brands to be aware of! I hadn't heard of them before - am learning more each day.
Panamax MR4000 power conditioner > Devialet 220pro CI > Martin Logan Motion 60xt
Macbook Pro/ Onkyo DP-X1 source | Digital playback: Vox
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#18
(21-Nov-2020, 13:03)alandbush Wrote:
(21-Nov-2020, 03:37)zambie Wrote: Speaker placement along with subtle room correction definitely is going to be the next thing I focus on to get more adept around. No point spending this kind of money if I'm going to be lazy with those two things ... so, if you have books/ resources that you feel I should read up on, please share my way - will be much indebted.

Although on loan, I would still expect the Sabrinas to be properly installed as per the Wilson Audio Setup Process (WASP).  Although best left to experienced installers, the process is not a secret.
Check out WASP here.

Yup! I've been reading up on that quite a bit, but the guys will come and set the speakers up - asked me to carve out 2-3 hours while they do that.
Panamax MR4000 power conditioner > Devialet 220pro CI > Martin Logan Motion 60xt
Macbook Pro/ Onkyo DP-X1 source | Digital playback: Vox
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