A Confused streaming system - Mutec / SOtM Ultra

[Confused]

Time for another update. I need to nudge this thread back to being current so that I can document my latest observations, experiments and system changes.

My previous post took things to August 2020, so what happened after that?

Well, not a lot actually. Between August 2020 and May 2021, I changed nothing. During this time I simply used the system to listen to music, which was nice.

So that at least that gets this thread back to the current year. More later!

[markush]

How are you currently using an EtherRegen with external Masterclock?
BTW: do we know anything about specs of the clock used inside the Devialet?

[zdenes]

Etherregen has a 10Mhz clock input. I don't know details about the Dev clock but it's not the same quality as the Mutec or other OCXO clocks.

[Confused]

I still have not got this thread up to date. In my last post I delighted in how I had at least moved this thread to a the current year, then what do you know, a new year came along. In this post I intend finally get this thread back to where I am now.

So my previous post took me to May 2021. This is when I first tried Focus Fidelity Filter Designer. I think the benefits to anyone from something like Focus Fidelity will be very much room and system dependant, and perhaps dependant of the preferences of the individual listener. But in this thread I can give my own view.

I have been on a bit of curious journey with my system. It started off with a D250 Expert powering the Blades. I was very happy indeed with this system. I later added a companion to have a D800, and added the Mutec MC3+USB, at the time fed by a microRendu. Straightforward upgrades, I was still very happy with the system, it just sounded a little better now.

Things became a little less straightforward for me once I moved to the 1000 Pro. When I first listened to a 1000 Pro it was in a straight back to back comparison test with a D800. This listening session left me with zero doubt that the 1000 Pro was the better amp. So I bought one.

This should have been another simple upgrade, add a better amp, get a better sound, enjoy the music more. In part, this was exactly what happened. Much of that improvement I heard in that first demo I now had at home, but it was not that simple. With some music I found something was niggling me with the sound. This was album or even track dependant, but somehow I had ended up with a definitively better system, but one that I sometimes seemed to enjoy less than when my old D800 was in charge of things. Not an ideal state of affairs.

In a way, this thread start here, a little time after the 1000 Pro was introduced into my system. I have a great system, but I am not 100% happy with it. So I add the SOtM kit, the Mutec REF10 and so on. Do things improve? Yes they do, but the niggles mentioned above remain, so I still have a system that with some music might disappoint a little, or perhaps annoy a little. Which is obviously not good.

Then I try Focus Fidelity Filter Designer. Once I had got used to this software and spent a little time experimenting with target curves etc. I then had a system that sounded better than ever. More than this though, the niggles mentioned above were eliminated. The end result of this is a system that I turn on and I can use to simply delight in the music, no more is this simple joy spoilt by niggling thoughts that something is not quite right with the system, this changes to enjoying the music. For me, this is a game changer.

I recall a while ago reading the tail of a motoring journalist who was driving a Ferrari across Europe as part of a magazine test. The car had a fault and was making a strange noise in the interior. Much of the article was about how annoying and distracting this noise was. So if something is wrong, no matter how small, it can go a long way to ruin something that otherwise should be quite magnificent.

So why was I pretty much happy with the D800 but had this niggle with the 1000 Pro? This question baffles me a little, but I can see some clues. Ignoring the normally troublesome bass side of things, with a fairly standard target curve set in Focus Fidelity, there is degree of correction made from about 5000 Hz, which maybe peaks at about 8000 to 10000 Hz, requiring maybe about -3dB of correction. (The exact amount of correction will vary depending on how the target curve is set)

So what we have here is the upper presence range to the treble area where stuff like sibilance might manifest on some recordings. It seams that my room is generating a bit of extra energy in this range, which on some recordings might be triggering my niggles. I also think that this frequency range is one area where the Pro is better than the Expert, the Pro to my ears has much greater clarity and resolution in the upper mids when compared to the Expert, this is something I observed in that very first demo of the 1000 Pro. So speculating here, it is almost as if this positive aspect of the Pro was somehow exacerbating an existing issue with my room. There is speculation here as to the reasons why, but what I can say for certain is that subjectively I am now enjoying the music far more than I was prior to having Focus Fidelity in play.

I guess when you are putting a system together you have hopes and dreams regarding how it will perform, and it is disappointing when it does not for some reason or another. I now feel that finally I have that system I had dreamed of. Not bad going when you consider that I bought the Blades over 8 year ago. Although in a way that is a positive, when I bought the Blades I was very pleased with them, but now I feel like I have a speaker upgrade, now I really have a pair of Blades working as they should.

Do I have any remaining niggles about the 1000 Pro? No, none. I'll probably keep it until it breaks.

To finally get this thread up to date I need to also cover the addition of the Zen Stream. This really needs a separate post, but enough to say now that it is very good and my SOtM kit has now been sold.

[zdenes]

@Confused Good to read about the latest episode of your saga :-) I haven't had a chance ever to directly compare the SOtM SMS-200 ultra SE to any other streamer. In fact, I was always wondering if there is anything better out there...You seemed to have found one but you are the only person I have ever seen on any forum who sold the SMS-200 ultra for something else. Some people preferred the Sonore streamer but when the SMS-200 ultra was connected to a REF 10, there was no contest. I hope one day, I will also have a chance to compare to the Zen streamer but the other day someone posted this in a Facebook group:

"So I did an a/b comparison sms200 ultra neo SE, txusb ultra SE powered by sps500 the USB cables used are audioquest diamond usb vs DCS network Bridge into a Chord tt2 dac. The SOTM sounded much better than the DCS. There were 4 people listening including the owner of the DCS and we were all in agreement."

Other components of the system were "Bryston 7b3 mono amps, Audiocontrol x9 processor, Totem acoustic element metal speakers."

I was happy to read this as the dCS Bridge was on my radar. Not so much anymore, especially considering that mine is clocked for the REF10 and the above test didn't seem to have an external clock.

[Confused]

@Confused Good to read about the latest episode of your saga :-)  I haven't had a chance ever to directly compare the SOtM SMS-200 ultra SE to any other streamer. In fact, I was always wondering if there is anything better out there...You seemed to have found one but you are the only person I have ever seen on any forum who sold the SMS-200 ultra for something else. Some people preferred the Sonore streamer but when the SMS-200 ultra was connected to a REF 10, there was no contest. I hope one day, I will also have a chance to compare to the Zen streamer but the other day someone posted this in a Facebook group:

"So I did an a/b comparison sms200 ultra neo SE, txusb ultra SE powered by sps500 the USB cables used are audioquest diamond usb vs DCS network Bridge into a Chord tt2 dac. The SOTM sounded much better than the DCS. There were 4 people listening including the owner of the DCS and we were all in agreement."

Other components of the system were "Bryston 7b3 mono amps, Audiocontrol x9 processor, Totem acoustic element metal speakers."

I was happy to read this as the dCS Bridge was on my radar. Not so much anymore, especially considering that mine is clocked for the REF10 and the above test didn't seem to have an external clock.

Hi Zoltan. I was going to hold off posting too much about the Zen Stream, but now it is mentioned it seems appropriate to do so. 

First to say that I would be very reluctant to say that the Zen Stream is better than my previous SOtM kit. I spent a lot of time comparing the two, lots of A/B testing, and the only definitive conclusion I could reach is that the performance was very similar, it was very hard to differentiate between the two. This was with the very specific use case of using as an HQPlayer NAA to feed a Mutec REF10. Let's put it this way, if the Zen Stream had been dCS Network Bridge money, I would not have bought it as it would not offer a significant performance improvement for the price to change. 

Perhaps of note is that to my ears I always felt that there was something not quite right with the original sMS-200Ultra. It was impressive, certainly better at detail retrieval than my old microRendu, but somehow not quite right, maybe a touch too thin sounding or something. My view of this changed with the Neo update. Also, just after I received my sMS-200Ultra back from SOtM with Neo update and shortened clock cables, SOtM released some firmware updates, which also improved things to my ears.

So with the more recent firmware and Neo spec, I was pretty happy with the SOtM kit. In fact, the main reason I wanted to try the Zen was that I had a theory that the Mutec might sound better fed via S/PDIF, taking USB out of the chain altogether. Somewhat ironically, I am now running the Zen to the Mutec via USB. There are two reasons for this. Firstly I think this sounds a fraction better than S/PDIF. Secondly, I keep the Zen and the Mutec kit powered up continuously, but the PC is very often turned off. If I connect the Mutec via S/PDIF, then when the PC is powered down one of the status lock reference lights on the Mutec flashes, this does not happen when connected via USB. The flashing light is a bit irritating when nothing is playing. A minor point, but as I think it sounds a touch better with USB, it is a win win.

The Zen is also a lot simpler in use. In NAA mode it is very plug and play. If the Zen is powered powered down and restarted, HQPlayer automatically re-finds it, no issues. So no messing about with Eunhasu or checking IP addresses as might be the case with the sMS-200. The Zen seems to be a little more like a domestic audio product, turn it on and it works, rather than a more niche piece of a computer audio system. A minor point, but it is a nice touch. 

The Zen has also allowed me remove a lot of kit from my system and simplify things a little. No need for the "extra box" tX-USBultra, two 75ohm clock cables removed, one USB cable removed, and I now have a "spare" Paul Hynes SR4 LPSU that I can use elsewhere. I had two SR4's powering the SOtM kit, one remains powering the Zen.

For a while I had both the Zen and the SOtM kit connected up and piled up in the rack. With the SOtM kit sold, I have been able to tidy things up, and remove the cables that are no longer required. With subsequent long term listening, I am very happy with the little Zen Stream.

I am sure it will be a keeper, even if something new comes along, a new high performance NAA product, then I am sure I would keep the Zen and use it in my desktop headphone system or another room. It is a nice little product, it sounds good and just works.

Moving to a more objective stance, measurements for the Zen Stream show that it has very low levels of noise and good jitter measurements, so as something to simply feed the Mutec, maybe there is good reason it sounds similar to the SOtM kit.

I sometimes wonder if the "reassuringly expensive" Aqua LinQ might offer any additional performance as an NAA, and would the LinQ direct to the Devialet be a match or better than the more complex MC3+USB/REF10 approach? Although I am happy enough with my current set up not to be motivated to enough to try to get a demo unit. 

If anything, I think my next bit of tweaking might be to try fibre before the EtherRegen. From a technical perspective, I like the idea of a fibre link that will definitively be immune to any upstream electrical noise or interference. Something for another day.

[Confused]

Some kindly soul has just sent me this link:

https://uk.kef.com/products/blade-one-me...4089684107

I suspect these will be rather lovely. Substantially more cash than I paid for mine though .....

[markush]

Going fiber before the EtherRegen really made another positive difference. Though it’s ver important which Ethernet cables Lu are using and media converter (as well as LPS for it).
But you can try with a cheap Digitus,fiber cables, SFP modules first.

[Snoopy8]

Not sure whether you want to look at the Innuos Phoenix.
https://innuos.com/phoenix-usb/

Muski is using the Phoenix with Expert Pro 1000
https://devialetchat.com/Thread-Innuos-Z...#pid100920

AustinPop reviewed it and compared it with Mutec Ref10 connected to a SOtM tX-USBultra SE
https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/reviews/r...cker-r906/
And he also looked at the SE120 version of the REF10, something you may want to consider?

Darko looked at using different streamers with the Phoenix, which may help you on your streamer considerations
https://darko.audio/2020/05/innuos-phoen...er-review/

As for exploring fibre with the EtherRegen, it is a rabbit hole which I found yielded limited, if any, SQ gains. It only made sense for a friend who had a 20m cable.

[Confused]

Not sure whether you want to look at the Innuos Phoenix.
https://innuos.com/phoenix-usb/

Muski is using the Phoenix with Expert Pro 1000
https://devialetchat.com/Thread-Innuos-Z...#pid100920

AustinPop reviewed it and compared it with Mutec Ref10 connected to a SOtM  tX-USBultra SE
https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/reviews/r...cker-r906/
And he also looked at the SE120 version of the REF10, something you may want to consider?

Darko looked at using different streamers with the Phoenix, which may help you on your streamer considerations
https://darko.audio/2020/05/innuos-phoen...er-review/

As for exploring fibre with the EtherRegen,  it is a rabbit hole which I found yielded limited, if any, SQ gains. It only made sense for a friend who had a 20m cable.

Lots of suggestions there! 

Although it does not look like you and @markush agree regarding the benefits of fibre. Not withstanding the lack of consensus with fibre, it does appeal to me at a technical level as an optical link will make a definitive electrical break between the PC and audio kit. Whether or not this makes an audible difference or not, I have no idea, but I am intrigued enough to try it. 

I too have read many positive words regarding the Innuos Phoenix. If I could borrow one, I would certainly try it. The thing is though I am a little sceptical about the possible benefits of improving the USB side of things beyond the iFi Zen Stream. Consider that I had great difficulty discerning any difference between the Zen Stream and the REF10 clocked sMS-200 Ultra Neo tX-USBultra combo. Is a clocked USB feed going to make much difference in the specific use case of feeding a REF10 clocked MC3+USB? I am always amazed at the shear thoroughness of AustinPop's reviews, I am a bit of a fan, but I think at the margins he does hear some things I cannot. I suspect that the Phoenix might have more benefit to those using USB direct to DAC, rather than USB to feed an MC3+USB, but who knows, as I said if I could get my hands on one I would try it.

Late last year I actually received an email from Mutec offering to upgrade my REF 10 to SE 120 spec. The cost is Euro 2,299. (or at least it was back in November) Quite what difference the SE 120 spec would make I am not sure. I actually thought about this, and figured that it might be worth while upgrading once my own REF10 was a little older, so a kind of refresh and upgrade all in one. I struggle with the idea of making the jump to SE spec at the moment, the problem being that I suspect that it is possibly the MC3+USB which is the week link in the chain. It is quite an old product now. If anything, I would be more interested if Mutec released an upgrade of the MC3+USB, maybe an addition to their "Empyrean" range. Another problem with the 120 SE upgrade is that there is no way to try it before buying, it is more a case of pay up and hope for the best. So meanwhile I am happy to "wear out" my current REF10 and see what happens.