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BiWire Jumpers on biwireable speakers.
#11
(29-Jul-2020, 11:18)BoyScout Wrote:
(29-Jul-2020, 09:47)thumb5 Wrote: To avoid that kind of madness, I think we each have to have some kind of criteria for making decisions about what is reasonably likely to affect sound quality.  Personally I prefer to trust science, engineering, and common sense to help me make those decisions.

In short, I'm firmly with @Pim on this one.

Yes, me too, but... David isn´t wrong at all.
Maybe i must try that irrelevant connection followed by a great dissertation, with that description of stage, depth, full of adjectives about the sensations I had with many examples of albums, tracks and labels, of course.
Yes, i can do that... Wink

Everyone has to believe in something.
                                                    Lifetime Roon, Mac mini, int. SSD, ext. HDD, tv as monitor, key board and track pad on bean bag as remote,Devialet 200, Od'A #097, Blue jeans speaker cable,                                     
                                                                                                                                                                            Dynaudio C1 MkII.
                                                                                                                                                                              Jim Smith's GBS.
                                                                                                                                                                        Northern NSW Australia.
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#12
@Pim ,

You're right, everyone has to believe in something and I have no argument with that.

I believe that if there is an audible difference, there has to be a measurable difference as well. The problem is that if you don't measure the right thing, you won't see a measurable difference and if you haven't measured the right thing then the measurements you've made won't prove there isn't a difference because you haven't measured the right thing.

In this case we have no measurements, no observations reported here, and I can't remember seeing any observations reported anywhere. We've got a recommendation with no explanation for the recommendation and no reports from people who have listened that it makes a difference or it doesn't make a difference. Saying it can't make a difference with no evidence at all is just as flawed an approach as saying it works with no evidence at all. At present none of us have any evidence. I'm simply being cautious. I'm not ruling out the possibility that it does make a difference but I'm also not going to accept that it cannot make a difference if all anyone has to show for that is a lack of evidence and a supposition, which may or may not be right, that any difference has to be related to the change in cable length which certainly appears small enough to not make a difference. It's simply that while the difference in cable length may not make a difference, the difference in the method of connection may. I don't know, one way or another.

In the absence of an explanation and a lack of any evidence at all, we can either say that we can't see any reason why it should make a difference, a statement I have no problem with, or we can try it and see what we think and then argue about whether our listening test has any validity or not, but if you can't prove without evidence that it works, you also can't prove without evidence that it doesn't work. As I said, none of us has any evidence so we can't say that it can work and we can't say that it can't work.

You can't try it because the Dynaudio CI doesn't have biwire connections and I can't try it because my Sopra 2s don't have biwire connections. Do we have a volunteer whose opinion we both trust?
Roon Nucleus+, Devilalet Expert 140 Pro CI, Focal Sopra 2, PS Audio P12, Keces P8 LPS, Uptone Audio EtherREGEN with optical fibre link to my router, Shunyata Alpha NR and Sigma NR power cables, Shunyata Sigma ethernet cables, Shunyata Alpha V2 speaker cables, Grand Prix Audio Monaco rack, RealTRAPS acoustic treatment.

Brisbane, Qld, Australia
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#13
(29-Jul-2020, 14:26)David A Wrote: Do we have a volunteer whose opinion we both trust?

@BoyScout. Your job. You started this. Tongue
                                                    Lifetime Roon, Mac mini, int. SSD, ext. HDD, tv as monitor, key board and track pad on bean bag as remote,Devialet 200, Od'A #097, Blue jeans speaker cable,                                     
                                                                                                                                                                            Dynaudio C1 MkII.
                                                                                                                                                                              Jim Smith's GBS.
                                                                                                                                                                        Northern NSW Australia.
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#14
(29-Jul-2020, 20:53)Pim Wrote:
(29-Jul-2020, 14:26)David A Wrote: Do we have a volunteer whose opinion we both trust?

@BoyScout. Your job. You started this. Tongue

Yes, yes, i know, i know.
I am already working on it.
The cables are already connected "á lá Audioquest" and until now ... I don't notice anything different.
Maybe another day, who knows? It depends on me too, right?
Innuos ZenMini, Devialet 220 Pro CI, Black Sixteen speaker cables, Sonus Faber Guarneri Tradition and a pair of ears.
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#15
(29-Jul-2020, 22:42)BoyScout Wrote:
(29-Jul-2020, 20:53)Pim Wrote:
(29-Jul-2020, 14:26)David A Wrote: Do we have a volunteer whose opinion we both trust?

@BoyScout. Your job. You started this. Tongue

 It depends on me too, right?
It all depends on you mate. You're our guiding light in this dark tunnel of insanity.

No pressure.
                                                    Lifetime Roon, Mac mini, int. SSD, ext. HDD, tv as monitor, key board and track pad on bean bag as remote,Devialet 200, Od'A #097, Blue jeans speaker cable,                                     
                                                                                                                                                                            Dynaudio C1 MkII.
                                                                                                                                                                              Jim Smith's GBS.
                                                                                                                                                                        Northern NSW Australia.
Reply
#16
@BoyScout ,

Yes, it does depend on you, at least in part.

Congratulations on accepting the challenge to be the canary in the coal mine :-)
Roon Nucleus+, Devilalet Expert 140 Pro CI, Focal Sopra 2, PS Audio P12, Keces P8 LPS, Uptone Audio EtherREGEN with optical fibre link to my router, Shunyata Alpha NR and Sigma NR power cables, Shunyata Sigma ethernet cables, Shunyata Alpha V2 speaker cables, Grand Prix Audio Monaco rack, RealTRAPS acoustic treatment.

Brisbane, Qld, Australia
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#17
(30-Jul-2020, 01:04)David A Wrote: @BoyScout ,

Yes, it does depend on you, at least in part.

Congratulations on accepting the challenge to be the canary in the coal mine    :-)
I can handle it, i can handle it!
Innuos ZenMini, Devialet 220 Pro CI, Black Sixteen speaker cables, Sonus Faber Guarneri Tradition and a pair of ears.
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#18
After an arduos period of tough and sophisticated tests, commited with all my blood sweat and soul (no tears) to the superior task entrusted to me, i have to say the following:

There are differences between the two types of connection.

Yes Pim, i was close to not admitting it, but in the end i realize i´m not a coward and the truth must prevail. I´m very proud of myself.

Isn´t a great difference but enough to be noticed by those who are accustomed to their sound.
Rounder, smoother and a bit less detailed (or less sharper, if you prefer). Maybe preferable for some, but isn´t my personal case.

I hope my humble contribution brings a tiny light to this dark tunnel... huff!
Innuos ZenMini, Devialet 220 Pro CI, Black Sixteen speaker cables, Sonus Faber Guarneri Tradition and a pair of ears.
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#19
(31-Jul-2020, 00:29)BoyScout Wrote: After an arduos period of tough and sophisticated tests, commited with all my blood sweat and soul (no tears) to the superior task entrusted to me, i have to say the following:

There are differences between the two types of connection.

Yes Pim, i was close to not admitting it, but in the end i realize i´m not a coward and the truth must prevail. I´m very proud of myself.

Isn´t a great difference but enough to be noticed by those who are accustomed to their sound.
Rounder, smoother and a bit less detailed (or less sharper, if you prefer). Maybe preferable for some, but isn´t my personal case.

I hope my humble contribution brings a tiny light to this dark tunnel... huff!

There you go mate. You've just taught us all a valuable lesson; If you're going to listen for a difference you can hear one even though it isn't there. Hence, the enormous amount of snake oil being sold.
                                                    Lifetime Roon, Mac mini, int. SSD, ext. HDD, tv as monitor, key board and track pad on bean bag as remote,Devialet 200, Od'A #097, Blue jeans speaker cable,                                     
                                                                                                                                                                            Dynaudio C1 MkII.
                                                                                                                                                                              Jim Smith's GBS.
                                                                                                                                                                        Northern NSW Australia.
Reply
#20
(31-Jul-2020, 12:12)Pim Wrote: If you're going to listen for a difference you can hear one even though it isn't there.

Doesn´t make a lot of sence for me, too. but the diference is there, i can assure you.
I´m a very pragmatic guy, maybe too much for an audiophile.
Innuos ZenMini, Devialet 220 Pro CI, Black Sixteen speaker cables, Sonus Faber Guarneri Tradition and a pair of ears.
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