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Last Fault A 4098 OVER VOLTAGE
#61
A few things to consider.

As @David A says, it is theoretically possible to have slight differences in circuits that makes one amp slightly more sensitive to a Voltage peak and that could theoretically explain why only one amp dropped out for half a second and displayed the fault. I say theoretically because from a practical point of view I think this is a bit too simplistic.

These are the facts; It never happened with my 'old' Od'A or my D200 that I had in my system when my Od'A went for the 1000Pro upgrade. so if there were voltage peaks on my incoming power they never were a problem with the pre-upgraded D's. Secondly, it would have to be a pretty precise voltage peak to land exactly between the two 'sensitivity points' of the two individual amps.

More likely, when Devialet implement the new power supply that can do PLC, the power supplies (or their protection circuits) became more sensitive to voltage changes and not so much voltage peaks. These voltage changes are now enough to trigger the dropout and fault indication. That's one theory.

@AlexS, do you have on / off peak power in your area? If so, your power company sends a signal to your kWh meter twice a day to switch the meter over. Maybe that's the trigger for the dropout. That's another theory.

Shoot holes in my theories at will.
                                                    Lifetime Roon, Mac mini, int. SSD, ext. HDD, tv as monitor, key board and track pad on bean bag as remote,Devialet 200, Od'A #097, Blue jeans speaker cable,                                     
                                                                                                                                                                            Dynaudio C1 MkII.
                                                                                                                                                                              Jim Smith's GBS.
                                                                                                                                                                        Northern NSW Australia.
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#62
I'm not trying to "shoot holes in theories" so much as simply to point out the fact that we don't have the kind of evidence of what's happening at the moment the fault triggers which would enable us to say that it's one thing or another. The bug is definitely a possibility for the cause but it's not the only possibility. What I'm saying is that we don't have sufficient evidence to say it's any particular one of the possibilities that is causing it.

Pim says "it would have to be a pretty precise voltage peak to land exactly between the two 'sensitivity points' of the two individual amps" but without knowing what the tolerances applying to the protection circuit are, we don't know how precise the peak would need to me to land exactly between the trigger points for the 2 amps. If the tolerance is +/- 0.5 Volt, the range between the trigger points could be up to 1 V, if it's +/- 1 V then that range becomes 2 V and so on. There may well also be a time related component to the trigger, the spike may need to last for a certain number of milliseconds and that component of the specification may also have tolerances.

There's an old gag line which goes something like "I don't know what's going on but I haven't got any information to base that on". That's the kind of situation we're in. What new need is more information and part of that "more information" is reliable information about the voltage at the exact moment the fault triggers. Another part of that "more information" that we could use is more reports. It's harder to work out what's going on when all we have is a few sporadic reports rather than the frequent and regular reports we were getting over a year ago.

As I said, I had the fault about 10-12 times before I got the CI board upgrade which occurred around 10-11 months after I got my 140 so that's 10-12 faults in 10 to 11 months, say a fraction over once a month. It's now 11 months since I got the upgrade and I've had it only once since then and that one time occurred before I started using voltage regulation. The fact that I haven't had a fault in the 2 and a bit months I've been using voltage recommendation doesn't necessarily mean anything and the fact that AlexS has had it once since starting to use voltage regulation doesn't tell us much either in some ways but it definitely does muddy the water a little more. One of the things I was told when I was having to design and conduct a research project when I was doing my postgrad qualification in health and safety is that "you can't prove anything with a sample of 1". That's not quite true, a sample of 1 can prove or disprove some things but it certainly isn't enough to prove that a fault several people are experiencing has a single specific cause when there's 2 or more possible causes and we should actually see the shutdown and get this error message if a particular situation occurs.

I think we can definitely say something has changed with the CI board upgrade, both because I've had the problem significantly less frequently since then and also because reports generally have dropped in frequency since then. The one thing we can be sure of is that it's going to be harder to pin the cause down now because the frequency of the fault has dropped so much. If you want to start testing an amp and tracking incoming voltage against when the fault occurs, you only need a dozen amps and a month or so to get data on a dozen faults but if the incidence has dropped to once a year then you'd need a dozen amps and a year of so to get the same amount of data. Faults that occur frequently are a lot easier to identify and solve than faults which occur very infrequently.
Roon Nucleus+, Devilalet Expert 140 Pro CI, Focal Sopra 2, PS Audio P12, AQ Vodka ethernet, Kimber Select speaker cables, Shunyata Alpha NR and Delta EF power cables power cables, Grand Prix Audio Monaco rack, RealTRAPS acoustic treatment.

Brisbane, Qld, Australia
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#63
Unfortunately, for me the CI board upgrade did not change the behavior in any way.
@David A, you mentioned voltage regulation. What device are you using for that?

@Pim, your theory got my attention, since, as I said, for me the problem is likely to occur around certain time (5:30 and 10:15 pm), and this is when, you' think, peak power may start and end. What exactly are those signals that are being sent to the meter? Is there a protection against their effect? I think I'm going to contact my electricity provider, and if I get more info from them, I'll report it to Devialet.

Devialet engineers ARE indeed researching this fault (a while back I got a patch from them to test, which did not help me), but I doubt this is a high priority for them.
JRiver MC20 --> Devialet 250 Pro --> KEF Blades II
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#64
Alex,

As I said in an earlier response, I'm doing the voltage regulation in my PS Audio P12 power regenerator.

I think the signal the power companies send to the meter are a frequency ripple on the line. That is certainly a possible trigger and different power companies may use slightly different signals so if that is a trigger it may affect people using one power company and not people in other areas using power from a different company.
Roon Nucleus+, Devilalet Expert 140 Pro CI, Focal Sopra 2, PS Audio P12, AQ Vodka ethernet, Kimber Select speaker cables, Shunyata Alpha NR and Delta EF power cables power cables, Grand Prix Audio Monaco rack, RealTRAPS acoustic treatment.

Brisbane, Qld, Australia
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#65
Alex,

Do you do anything different with your amps at those times? i.e. use a different source, or play different music? It's most odd your situation.

What country are you in, does it have a good or bad reputation for mains quality?

Do you have any way of determining that the regulator you bought really does anything? Without proper test kit I'm not sure how you would do this though.

When was the last time you got a good update from Devialet on this issue?
Roon, Rega P9 + Dynavector XX2Mk2 > 440 Pro > Sonus Faber Guarneri Evolution
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#66
@Soniclife, no, it's similar music / volume. I live in the US, and the mains' voltage is consistent, so the voltage regulator, apparently, does not do much for me. I think those who suggested that it may be ripple (high frequency) signals sent by my electric company are onto something. I'll wait for the next FW, but if it does not help, will try something like this, for filtering frequencies above 50HZ:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07594SC84/?co..._lig_dp_it

> When was the last time you got a good update from Devialet on this issue?
Good update? I've never gotten one! They don't seem to know the root cause (or did not, at the time I exchanged emails with them), but they're looking into it, as is evidenced by their having sent me a FW patch to try. They even offered a loaner unit, to test if this may be an issue with mine. But the fact that it happens to other people, and that it happens to me only at certain times of the day (but not everyday - more like once a week), tells me there is nothing wrong with the amp itself.
JRiver MC20 --> Devialet 250 Pro --> KEF Blades II
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#67
Isolation transformers can adversely affect bass performance by restricting current draw when the amp's demand is high. Note I said that they can adversely affect this, not that they will. It depends on the size of the transformer and other factors. It may help but it's a try before you buy proposition.

Power conditioners also filter out parasitic frequencies riding on the line but more so at frequencies much higher than the line's 50 Hz. They're great at filtering out the data signal in ethernet over power line setups if you plug one of the ethernet power devices into a power conditioner. It improves the sound and ensures you get no ethernet signal at all as I found out one day when I plugged the ethernet adapter into my power conditioner without thinking but the ethernet signal is somewhere up in the kHz/mHz range and nowhere near the line frequency.

Power regeneration does work but power regenerators like the PS Audio Power Plants and some Isotek devices are expensive, extremely more expensive than the isolation transformer in your link.
Roon Nucleus+, Devilalet Expert 140 Pro CI, Focal Sopra 2, PS Audio P12, AQ Vodka ethernet, Kimber Select speaker cables, Shunyata Alpha NR and Delta EF power cables power cables, Grand Prix Audio Monaco rack, RealTRAPS acoustic treatment.

Brisbane, Qld, Australia
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#68
@David A, thank you for your advice. So, it sounds like, when using an isolation transformer, it's a good idea to "over-provision" wattage (that is, buy a device with more generous wattage specs).
Regarding trying other type of filters, I did and the following power conditioner did not help me much:
https://www.amazon.com/Furman-AC-215A-Co...127&sr=8-4
I can't bring myself to spending $5000 on a power regenerator.
JRiver MC20 --> Devialet 250 Pro --> KEF Blades II
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#69
I forgot to ask yesterday, do you know what time the peak off-peak switches are from your power company, they might not match. If they don't match if could be something industrial local to you messing things up.

New firmware today to play with!

I consider them sending you a patched firmware a good update, shows they are at least trying.

I take them up on the loan units, if the firmware does not fix it.
Roon, Rega P9 + Dynavector XX2Mk2 > 440 Pro > Sonus Faber Guarneri Evolution
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#70
(12-Feb-2019, 17:37)AlexS Wrote: @David A, thank you for your advice. So, it sounds like, when using an isolation transformer, it's a good idea to "over-provision" wattage (that is, buy a device with more generous wattage specs).
Regarding trying other type of filters, I did and the following power conditioner did not help me much:
https://www.amazon.com/Furman-AC-215A-Co...127&sr=8-4
I can't bring myself to spending $5000 on a power regenerator.

I have no experience with isolation transformers but they are power rated. Amplifiers including the Devialet do not draw a constant, unchanging amount of power, they draw power to meet their needs and their needs change as the level of the music changes so more power is drawn during loud passages than during soft passages. You need a transformer that can meet your Devialet's needs during loud passages.

Pick any power conditioning device you like and you'll be able to find positive and negative comments about it. What works for some people doesn't work for others and there's always variables in the situations being reported in the comments, variables in location, the noise on the line, the wiring in the house/apartment, whether the audio system is on it's own dedicated line in the house or sharing a line with other household appliances, how much power the user's system is drawing and so on. It's impossible to give a guarantee that something will work. Try before you buy.

Yes, regenerators are expensive. I didn't buy mine to fix the over voltage problem, I bought it to improve the sound I get. If there is a bug of some kind still in the software then I can't be certain that the P12's voltage correction will prevent it, it could happen anytime. I can't prove that it will never happen and I can't guarantee that a power regenerator would prevent it happening in your system. I can't guarantee that you won't see the problem again and I can't guarantee that you will. It's a possibility that you had a one time glitch for some reason and there's a possibility the cause was some intermittent fault that will recur sporadically. There is no way of knowing. If the cause of a fault can be identified it can be fixed but it a cause can't be identified you have no way of knowing if and when to expect this problem again.

HOWEVER the new Roon Ready firmware and OS software update is out to day. Among the new features listed is "Lower power consumption in sleep mode". I know that sounds like nothing to do with your problem but it does mean they made some changes to things affecting power in the amplifier so even if you aren't using Roon and want your amp to be Roon Ready I would seriously consider installing the new update because something in the changes affecting power management may fix whatever is causing your fault if the cause is something in the Devialet's software. Of course new software is also capable of introducing new bugs, There's no guarantee the new software will help you, and none that it won't make it worse. I've had it running for around an hour without problems so that means I've got until the next software update, whenever that is, to find out if there are any problems for me in this version.
Roon Nucleus+, Devilalet Expert 140 Pro CI, Focal Sopra 2, PS Audio P12, AQ Vodka ethernet, Kimber Select speaker cables, Shunyata Alpha NR and Delta EF power cables power cables, Grand Prix Audio Monaco rack, RealTRAPS acoustic treatment.

Brisbane, Qld, Australia
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