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Mutec MC-3+ USB
#11
(10-Feb-2016, 21:26)Our Wrote: Another interesting development will most probably be introduced at Munich where Mutec will have a booth for the first time, and should introduce to the Audiophile public a brand new 10 Mhz clock, in order to provide high quality clocking for digital audio stream.
Here are a few clues :
For German speaking audience : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_Q1Dmel-cI&t=310

For English speaking readers : http://www.mutec-net.com/downloads/Ref10...2014_E.pdf

Interesting development indeed :-)

If you do not mind me copying your post from another thread for reference, since it is quite relevant, an owner of the MC3+ (non USB) uses it with a Sforzato 10MHz external clock. He says that the addition of the external clock was a game changer and even he was surprised as to what his system was capable of.

Given what the MC3+ USB can do, I am sure the Ref10 will bring it to another level. Are you aware of the projected retail price?
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#12
(11-Feb-2016, 16:10)nfnc Wrote:
(10-Feb-2016, 21:26)Our Wrote: Another interesting development will most probably be introduced at Munich where Mutec will have a booth for the first time, and should introduce to the Audiophile public a brand new 10 Mhz clock, in order to provide high quality clocking for digital audio stream.
Here are a few clues :
For German speaking audience : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_Q1Dmel-cI&t=310

For English speaking readers :  http://www.mutec-net.com/downloads/Ref10...2014_E.pdf

Interesting development indeed :-)

If you do not mind me copying your post from another thread for reference, since it is quite relevant, an owner of the MC3+ (non USB) uses it with a Sforzato 10MHz external clock.  He says that the addition of the external clock was a game changer and even he was surprised as to what his system was capable of.  

Given what the MC3+ USB can do, I am sure the Ref10 will bring it to another level.  Are you aware of the projected retail price?

Thanks for asking. No objection :-)

I am convinced that the new clock will provide a very new experience in terms of sound transparency and spatiality.
I have read on a German forum that the price would be in the ballpark of 3'000 EUR. But this is a very rough estimation which was not confirmed. I am seeking confirmation on my side. Do you have any information on your side ?
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#13
No idea yet.  Hope that they do not price it too high or the value proposition would be eroded.
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#14
Can only guess at this stage.
But if you compare the price of MC-3+ USB to competition, you can infer that the business model of Mutec is to bring state of the art technology from the studio industry, which is probably much more cost minded, to the audiophile business, where prices are often a second or third order variable. If this proves right, we can expect this product to be priced much less than competition which is, if I recall my readings correctly, around 10'000 USD for a clock addition to a high end DAC.
One thing will be to make sure that the feeding of a 10 MHz clocking signal to MC-3+ USB will bring more sound clarity/spatiality to the Devialet, even though we are not able to send a clock signal to the internal DAC of the said Devialet. We will have to listen to before confirming the pertinence of this track...
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#15
The Mutec is indeed very interesting. Today I got confirmation from Mutec that the USB input works 'as is' with Linux ALSA. A device like the MicroRendu would be perfect in this setting, plugged directly into the Mutec. In effect a RoonReady Mutec MC-3+ USB.
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microRendu 1.4::LPS-1::USPCB::Mutec MC-3+USB::250 Pro CI::Roon, Core on Intel NUC with Debian Linux, music on USB3 disk::Audiolense 5.5::Monitor Audio MA201 (thoroughly rebuilt, now with a SAM profile)


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#16
(11-Feb-2016, 20:58)Our Wrote: Can only guess at this stage.
But if you compare the price of MC-3+ USB to competition, you can infer that the business model of Mutec is to bring state of the art technology from the studio industry, which is probably much more cost minded, to the audiophile business, where prices are often a second or third order variable. If this proves right, we can expect this product to be priced much less than competition which is, if I recall my readings correctly, around 10'000 USD for a clock addition to a high end DAC.
One thing will be to make sure that the feeding of a 10 MHz clocking signal to MC-3+ USB will bring more sound clarity/spatiality to the Devialet, even though we are not able to send a clock signal to the internal DAC of the said Devialet. We will have to listen to before confirming the pertinence of this track...

How about enabling digital out on the Devialet and connect this back to the Mutec as clock reference, but still use the superior clocking in the Mutec? Would this work?
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microRendu 1.4::LPS-1::USPCB::Mutec MC-3+USB::250 Pro CI::Roon, Core on Intel NUC with Debian Linux, music on USB3 disk::Audiolense 5.5::Monitor Audio MA201 (thoroughly rebuilt, now with a SAM profile)


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#17
(12-Feb-2016, 12:46)ogs Wrote:
(11-Feb-2016, 20:58)Our Wrote: Can only guess at this stage.
But if you compare the price of MC-3+ USB to competition, you can infer that the business model of Mutec is to bring state of the art technology from the studio industry, which is probably much more cost minded, to the audiophile business, where prices are often a second or third order variable. If this proves right, we can expect this product to be priced much less than competition which is, if I recall my readings correctly, around 10'000 USD for a clock addition to a high end DAC.
One thing will be to make sure that the feeding of a 10 MHz clocking signal to MC-3+ USB will bring more sound clarity/spatiality to the Devialet, even though we are not able to send a clock signal to the internal DAC of the said Devialet. We will have to listen to before confirming the pertinence of this track...

How about enabling digital out on the Devialet and connect this back to the Mutec as clock reference, but still use the superior clocking in the Mutec? Would this work?
Not sure, but what I understand from this complicated matter, is that you need to have a very precise clock in order to improve the quality of the signal (remove jitter and noise). You might be able to use the digital output of the Devialet and feed it into the Mutec (MC-3+ USB) as external clock, but you will then not benefit from any 10 MHz clock input (you can only have one master clock).
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#18
(12-Feb-2016, 13:22)Our Wrote:
(12-Feb-2016, 12:46)ogs Wrote:
(11-Feb-2016, 20:58)Our Wrote: Can only guess at this stage.
But if you compare the price of MC-3+ USB to competition, you can infer that the business model of Mutec is to bring state of the art technology from the studio industry, which is probably much more cost minded, to the audiophile business, where prices are often a second or third order variable. If this proves right, we can expect this product to be priced much less than competition which is, if I recall my readings correctly, around 10'000 USD for a clock addition to a high end DAC.
One thing will be to make sure that the feeding of a 10 MHz clocking signal to MC-3+ USB will bring more sound clarity/spatiality to the Devialet, even though we are not able to send a clock signal to the internal DAC of the said Devialet. We will have to listen to before confirming the pertinence of this track...

How about enabling digital out on the Devialet and connect this back to the Mutec as clock reference, but still use the superior clocking in the Mutec? Would this work?
Not sure, but what I understand from this complicated matter, is that you need to have a very precise clock in order to improve the quality of the signal (remove jitter and noise). You might be able to use the digital output of the Devialet and feed it into the Mutec (MC-3+ USB) as external clock, but you will then not benefit from any 10 MHz clock input (you can only have one master clock).

Yes, that is my understanding too.
What I would like is that instead of Devialet just extracting the clock from the AES signal coming from the Mutec, the two clock domains is syncronised avoiding drift between the units. The Mutec should know the clock frequency at the DAC in the Devialet and adjust accordingly while still using it's own reference clock, internal or external. I guess either Mutec or Devialet will have to program something to make this work. Maybe both.
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microRendu 1.4::LPS-1::USPCB::Mutec MC-3+USB::250 Pro CI::Roon, Core on Intel NUC with Debian Linux, music on USB3 disk::Audiolense 5.5::Monitor Audio MA201 (thoroughly rebuilt, now with a SAM profile)


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#19
(12-Feb-2016, 13:47)ogs Wrote:
(12-Feb-2016, 13:22)Our Wrote:
(12-Feb-2016, 12:46)ogs Wrote: How about enabling digital out on the Devialet and connect this back to the Mutec as clock reference, but still use the superior clocking in the Mutec? Would this work?
Not sure, but what I understand from this complicated matter, is that you need to have a very precise clock in order to improve the quality of the signal (remove jitter and noise). You might be able to use the digital output of the Devialet and feed it into the Mutec (MC-3+ USB) as external clock, but you will then not benefit from any 10 MHz clock input (you can only have one master clock).

Yes, that is my understanding too.
What I would like is that instead of Devialet just extracting the clock from the AES signal coming from the Mutec, the two clock domains is syncronised avoiding drift between the units. The Mutec should know the clock frequency at the DAC in the Devialet and adjust accordingly while still using it's own reference clock, internal or external. I guess either Mutec or Devialet will have to program something to make this work. Maybe both.
Well, I don't quite understant why you would like the Mutec to take care of the Devialet.

In case of a simple configuration, you have the Mutec MC-3+ USB which job is just to correct the jittering of the signal and send it to the Devialet. There is no Master Clock involved here. This is the configuration I have, and the MC-3 uses its own internal clock to do the job.

In the more sophisticated configuration we are contemplating, there is an additional Mutec box, REF10 for 10 MHz clock, which serves as the master clock for all the devices connected through S-P/DIF or AES, and which need to be synchronized. The Ref10 delivers its master clock signal through a coax to the MC-3s which are in charge of de-jittering.

If the Devialet's DAC was able to accept an external clock signal, this would be awesome. But this is not the case. So the Devialet will synchronize to it's input signal, which is already quite clean as this is, for the clock part, the clock signal coming from the Ref10, which has been altered going through the last MC-3. I say last because you can chain multiple devices.

Are we on the same page ?

But once again, we need to listen to such a system to assess that it produces better SQ. So far, tests made by our German colleagues with their homemade 10 MHz clocks do not seem to exceed the SQ produced by two MC-3+ USB stacked. We will need to wait for the Ref10 to be on the market and check...
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#20
(12-Feb-2016, 14:41)Our Wrote: If the Devialet's DAC was able to accept an external clock signal, this would be awesome. But this is not the case. So the Devialet will synchronize to it's input signal, which is already quite clean as this is, for the clock part, the clock signal coming from the Ref10, which has been altered going through the last MC-3. I say last because you can chain multiple devices.

Are we on the same page ?
Yes, absolutely on the same page. I once asked Devialet about word clock input on their Expert amps. I do not remember the exact answer, but is was negative and in the usual Devialet style..
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microRendu 1.4::LPS-1::USPCB::Mutec MC-3+USB::250 Pro CI::Roon, Core on Intel NUC with Debian Linux, music on USB3 disk::Audiolense 5.5::Monitor Audio MA201 (thoroughly rebuilt, now with a SAM profile)


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