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Mutec MC-3+ USB
#31
(07-Mar-2016, 15:13)Our Wrote:
(07-Mar-2016, 15:04)Antoine Wrote: Oh no, now I have to upgrade, again!! Wink

Thanks for sharing Our.

It's still not clear to me what this solution entails, boxes, connections/cables and how it works but I'll use google translate on the German website to make it more clear to me.

Hi Antoine,

Well, before upgrading, as Ralf Koschnicke from Acousence is a very kind man, very customer's satisfaction orientated, I suggest that you try to listen if you hear the same things than me.

Having said that, the system consists in two parts :
- a USB satellite, which is connected to the main box via 3 optical cables : one for a switch 44.1/48 kHz, one for the clock (from the main box to the satellite) and one for the sound (from the USB satellite to the main box). This satellite receives the USB signal, completely isolates it and transmits a data flow, synched with the main box clock, to the main box itself.
- a main box, which can have one input/one output (AFI) or four inputs/two outputs (AFIS).
The small box is not configurable (one USB input and one RJ45 etherconn output). You just need to chose a cable (AES/EBU or BNC) to connect to the RJ45 and you're all set.
The larger box is fully configurable. So you can chose which inputs/outputs you want.

Thanks Our for clarifying the setup! Impressive, three optical cables etc. I'll have to learn more, will visit the website later.

It's a "shame" though one can't compare using the same cables to the DAC/Devialet, makes it a less apples vs. apples comparison.
PS Audio P3, Shunyata ΞTRON Alpha Digital and HC/Furutech power cables, Paul Hynes SR7EHD-MR4, DIY Roon Server & Roon Endpoint running AudioLinux Headless, Phasure Lush^2 USB cable, Audioquest Diamond RJ/E ethernet, Mutec MC-3+ USB, Shunyata ΞTRON Anaconda Digital XLR AES/EBU, Devialet Expert 250 Pro CI, Nordost Tyr Reference LS cables, Von Schweikert VR-5 SE Anniversary Edition, Anti-Mode Dual Core 2.0, JL Audio Fathom F112. More detail here.

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#32
And BTW while the Mutec beats anything in my setup heard thus far, it is quite ruthless to lesser recordings, I could use a bit of smoothness back (like you described) of course preferably without delivering in on it's positives.

To perhaps steer it back a little I was actually looking at replacing the internal SMPS of the Mutec (which of course would void it's warrantee) and/or trying out a different AES/EBU cable. 

This Acousense may be worth a try also. Based in Germany so no import duties etc. for me though I haven't looked into the cost of the hardware and fitting cables yet. I'll compare them to the costs of a Mutec with a good linear PSU and a good AES cable.
PS Audio P3, Shunyata ΞTRON Alpha Digital and HC/Furutech power cables, Paul Hynes SR7EHD-MR4, DIY Roon Server & Roon Endpoint running AudioLinux Headless, Phasure Lush^2 USB cable, Audioquest Diamond RJ/E ethernet, Mutec MC-3+ USB, Shunyata ΞTRON Anaconda Digital XLR AES/EBU, Devialet Expert 250 Pro CI, Nordost Tyr Reference LS cables, Von Schweikert VR-5 SE Anniversary Edition, Anti-Mode Dual Core 2.0, JL Audio Fathom F112. More detail here.

The Netherlands


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#33
(07-Mar-2016, 15:35)Antoine Wrote: And BTW while the Mutec beats anything in my setup heard thus far, it is quite ruthless to lesser recordings, I could use a bit of smoothness back (like you described) of course preferably without delivering in on it's positives.

I perfectly agree with you. My purpose was not to criticize the Mutec which I am perfectly happy with, but to elaborate on a competitor, which still is very unknown as he is not ready for export and has no international distribution network.

Furthermore, Acousence could comply with the audiophiles' requests (less industrial look, with only one knob, see picture here (http://www.artistic-fidelity.de/index.php/en/)) and a 'reasonable' price, for someone like me, who is not willing to give-up the flexibility of a computer for a music server. 

I am probably less skilled than you are in DIY matters, and less adventurous too. So I will probably not go the Mutec's 'tuning' way on my own :-)
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#34
(07-Mar-2016, 15:59)Our Wrote: ….and a 'reasonable' price, ….

I couldn't see any information about price, or specs?

Roon lifetime > Mac mini (RoonServer) > Eth > Allo DigiOne* > BNC ( >AES via Neutrik) > Devialet 250 Pro CI > PMC fact.8
‘Normal’ cables. *eBay LPS on the Allo, no discernible SQ change over Pi supply.
- London, UK -
>>> Devialet ‘EPO’ System - Expert Planned Obsolescence! <<<

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#35
(07-Mar-2016, 15:59)Our Wrote:
(07-Mar-2016, 15:35)Antoine Wrote: And BTW while the Mutec beats anything in my setup heard thus far, it is quite ruthless to lesser recordings, I could use a bit of smoothness back (like you described) of course preferably without delivering in on it's positives.

I perfectly agree with you. My purpose was not to criticize the Mutec which I am perfectly happy with, but to elaborate on a competitor, which still is very unknown as he is not ready for export and has no international distribution network.

Furthermore, Acousence could comply with the audiophiles' requests (less industrial look, with only one knob, see picture here (http://www.artistic-fidelity.de/index.php/en/)) and a 'reasonable' price, for someone like me, who is not willing to give-up the flexibility of a computer for a music server. 

I am probably less skilled than you are in DIY matters, and less adventurous too. So I will probably not go the Mutec's 'tuning' way on my own :-)

And I agree with your observations, my computer also isn't going anywhere soon though it might be complemented with a Microrendu. Smile

There's a lot more information on his website since the last time I checked so that's great. If only he would hurry with the German to English translations. Even though I'm Dutch and the Germans are direct neighbours, the German language is too hard for me to understand fully especially when the subject is of a technical nature. I'll keep an eye on it though and try to make the best of it using Google translate for now.

Not in a hurry too and still want to test the Intona in front of the Mutec first, even though 'one and a half' of CA isn't exactly enthousiastic about the combination.

Replacing the PSU of the Mutec is very straightforward (http://www.tirnahifi.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3653) using an external PSU but of course I understand not for everyone. I might not even go there myself due to the risk, losing warranty and lower resale value.

Did you make up your mind yet on your next step, as in will you buy the AFI/AFIS? Also do you know if the AFIS would hold any advantage over the AFI, except of course the number of inputs?
PS Audio P3, Shunyata ΞTRON Alpha Digital and HC/Furutech power cables, Paul Hynes SR7EHD-MR4, DIY Roon Server & Roon Endpoint running AudioLinux Headless, Phasure Lush^2 USB cable, Audioquest Diamond RJ/E ethernet, Mutec MC-3+ USB, Shunyata ΞTRON Anaconda Digital XLR AES/EBU, Devialet Expert 250 Pro CI, Nordost Tyr Reference LS cables, Von Schweikert VR-5 SE Anniversary Edition, Anti-Mode Dual Core 2.0, JL Audio Fathom F112. More detail here.

The Netherlands


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#36
(07-Mar-2016, 16:22)Antoine Wrote: And I agree with your observations, my computer also isn't going anywhere soon though it might be complemented with a Microrendu. Smile

There's a lot more information on his website since the last time I checked so that's great. If only he would hurry with the German to English translations. Even though I'm Dutch and the Germans are direct neighbours, the German language is too hard for me to understand fully especially when the subject is of a technical nature. I'll keep an eye on it though and try to make the best of it using Google translate for now.

Not in a hurry too and still want to test the Intona in front of the Mutec first, even though 'one and a half' of CA isn't exactly enthousiastic about the combination.

Replacing the PSU of the Mutec is very straightforward (http://www.tirnahifi.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3653) using an external PSU but of course I understand not for everyone. I might not even go there myself due to the risk, losing warranty and lower resale value.

Did you make up your mind yet on your next step, as in will you buy the AFI/AFIS? Also do you know if the AFIS would hold any advantage over the AFI, except of course the number of inputs?
Agreed, but I expect the benefits of the micro-rendu to be in direct competition with what you could expect from the AFI-USB. From what I understand, the AFI is doing the same job as the micro-rendu, ie separate the sound data from the clock signal and HF interferences, clean everything, and send a clean signal on the AES/EBU or BNC interface. What seems nice to me in the Acousence solution is the fact that we are already clear of any USB interference after this stage, as in the higher end solutions of Sonore.

As far as my options are with Acousence, I am busy discussing various options with M.Koschnicke. I will let you know when I have made a decision :-)

As far as differences between AFI and AFIS are concerned, here is a link to the explanation in German (http://www.aktives-hoeren.de/viewtopic.p...LL#p108629). Not vey helpful I understand, and Google is not very useful for translating from German due to the complicated language structure, but it says in substance that the AFIS has 4 inputs/2 outputs and can have 2 PLLs, whereby the AFI only has 1 input/1 output and 1 PLL. I do not know what the influence of the second PLL would be.

EDIT : AFI-USB and AFIS-USB process the USB signal in exactly the same way. The 2 PLLs are only used for the other inputs as a two stages re-clocking process. So if one only needs one input for USB, AFI-USB is the way to go.
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#37
(07-Mar-2016, 16:48)Our Wrote: …. From what I understand, the AFI is doing the same job as the micro-rendu, ….

As I understand, the micro-rendu is a network audio adapter, so it receives audio data over ethernet, does its thing, and then outputs a clean signal via USB. So in theory should replace the 'audio-optimised' PC and the reclocker, with a more standard 'noisy' PC doing the grunt work somewhere else on the network.  At least that's what's been suggested, so far the only people that have heard it are connected with Sonore in some way, and are (disappointingly) using lots of caveats in their evaluations.

Roon lifetime > Mac mini (RoonServer) > Eth > Allo DigiOne* > BNC ( >AES via Neutrik) > Devialet 250 Pro CI > PMC fact.8
‘Normal’ cables. *eBay LPS on the Allo, no discernible SQ change over Pi supply.
- London, UK -
>>> Devialet ‘EPO’ System - Expert Planned Obsolescence! <<<

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#38
@our, thank you for all the information! Enjoy the AFIS and good luck in making the right decision(s).

In general, I keep reading the computer and even USB cables still matter with all current solutions including the AFI(S). I would -love- a solution though that's completely agnostic to whatever you put in front of it. Smile

I agree/think though this is again a next generation solution, even when compared to the Mutec due to the fully optically isolated interlinks, full separation of clock and data, protocol conversions (although unclear to me yet is what exact protocols are used) and the use of RJ-45 ethercon instead of S/PDIF coax or AES3.
PS Audio P3, Shunyata ΞTRON Alpha Digital and HC/Furutech power cables, Paul Hynes SR7EHD-MR4, DIY Roon Server & Roon Endpoint running AudioLinux Headless, Phasure Lush^2 USB cable, Audioquest Diamond RJ/E ethernet, Mutec MC-3+ USB, Shunyata ΞTRON Anaconda Digital XLR AES/EBU, Devialet Expert 250 Pro CI, Nordost Tyr Reference LS cables, Von Schweikert VR-5 SE Anniversary Edition, Anti-Mode Dual Core 2.0, JL Audio Fathom F112. More detail here.

The Netherlands


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#39
(07-Mar-2016, 16:52)Hifi_swlon Wrote:
(07-Mar-2016, 16:48)Our Wrote: …. From what I understand, the AFI is doing the same job as the micro-rendu, ….

As I understand, the micro-rendu is a network audio adapter, so it receives audio data over ethernet, does its thing, and then outputs a clean signal via USB. So in theory should replace the 'audio-optimised' PC and the reclocker, with a more standard 'noisy' PC doing the grunt work somewhere else on the network.  At least that's what's been suggested, so far the only people that have heard it are connected with Sonore in some way, and are (disappointingly) using lots of caveats in their evaluations.

I have the same understanding. The difference is that you are getting a USB signal at the output of the micro-rendu, which makes it a good option for the lower end of the market, but which can be prone to interferences on its DC component ; I know that the micro-rendu will have a good PSU if you buy such a PSU, so this inconvenient could be minimal, I don't know.

I would prefer to clean the signal produced with my Mac Mini as :
- this allows me to keep this computer, with Audirvana I am happy with
- at the output of the Mutec/AFIS, I have a AES/EBU connection, which I understand should be less prone to interferences, except for the reflection problems which are cleverly addressed by Acousence with their RJ-45/Ethercon connection.
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#40
@Hifi_swlon, I've read the prices are/were:

AFIS incl. USB: 1980
AFIS: 1770
AFI-USB: 980
AFI: 640
AFI without PLL: 580

Source: http://www.aktives-hoeren.de/viewtopic.p...10#p106610

Edit; all in EUR, not sure if tax/VAT is included.
Edit2: these prices are excluding VAT, add 19% if in the EU.
PS Audio P3, Shunyata ΞTRON Alpha Digital and HC/Furutech power cables, Paul Hynes SR7EHD-MR4, DIY Roon Server & Roon Endpoint running AudioLinux Headless, Phasure Lush^2 USB cable, Audioquest Diamond RJ/E ethernet, Mutec MC-3+ USB, Shunyata ΞTRON Anaconda Digital XLR AES/EBU, Devialet Expert 250 Pro CI, Nordost Tyr Reference LS cables, Von Schweikert VR-5 SE Anniversary Edition, Anti-Mode Dual Core 2.0, JL Audio Fathom F112. More detail here.

The Netherlands


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