New app

[David A]

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If the  Devialet itself could become a roon core then game over... they kill the market for good and the rest of the source/streamer/dac/pre-amp/amp/cable industry mostly goes bankrupt.

Why should the Devialet  become a Roon Core? According to Roon themselves, you get best sound quality when the Core (server) software and the renderer software are running on different devices. Whether we're using the AIR protocol with Roon as at present, or RAAT when the CI amps become Roon Ready, the Devialet is a renderer so we should get best results running Roon Core on a different device.

In addition Roon Core can do a lot of processing, especially if you're using the Roon DSP engine. The Devialet's processor also does a fair bit of DSP processing with things like SAM and tone controls. The current processor on the CI board may well not be capable off handling the DSP functions for Roon plus the Devialet DSP functions so that means needing to get a processor upgrade and new software. Considering the last 6 months of mucking around with the CI board rollout and the software program associated with that, how many of us CI owners would look forward eagerly to going through another hardware and software upgrade program to make our amps capable of doing Roon Core functions as well as what they are currently doing? Not many, and I suspect that not a lot of non-CI owners are going to rush to that upgrade after hearing of all the issues that CI owners have gone through with the current upgrade program, especially to end up with a 1 device solution for Roon that Roon themselves say is less than ideal.

I use Roon and I don't want to give it up, and I have a 130 with the CI board. I use an Antipodes server running Roon Core and I want to keep things that way. Making the Devialet a Roon Core as well as renderer is not the best way to go to get the best results from Roon according to Roon themselves and I have no reason to doubt them on that.

As for such a change being earth shattering for the industry as a whole, forget that. It would not happen. People opt for different sorts of setup for a lot of reasons and Devialet's approach and models don't suit many people. There's always going to be a wide range of options for people to choose between simply because of the widely differing end results a lot of different people are chasing..

[Celts88]

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If the  Devialet itself could become a roon core then game over... they kill the market for good and the rest of the source/streamer/dac/pre-amp/amp/cable industry mostly goes bankrupt.

Whether we're using the AIR protocol with Roon as at present, or RAAT when the CI amps become Roon Ready, the Devialet is a renderer so we should get best results running Roon Core on a different device.

David

So when (if ) the Expert becomes RAAT compatible that will make the Expert a Roon Renderer?

I'm asking as like you I have an Antipodes (was a DS, but come late June will be a CX), but when having the DS as the Core I had to run both the Server and Renderer software on the Antipodes to get Roon working. So you're saying once the Expert is RAAT compatible I can run just the Roon Server OS on the CX and the Expert will run the Roon Renderer software (not sure how that works).

Also would this mean I can only connect to the Expert via Ethernet connection and via USB (the Expert can only be a Renderer if sent info via Ethernet)?

Cheers
John

PS Sorry if the above query really isn't part of this App thread

[David A]

John,

A renderer converts a digital audio stream to analog. All of the Devialet's act as renderers if you feed them a digital signal from a server or streaming source and we have options for how we get Roon to send the digital signal to the Devialet including coax, optical, AES/EBU, USB, and ethernet. We can pick whichever we think meets our needs, including sound quality, best.

You don't have to run both server and renderer software on the Antipodes to get Roon working. Devialet's AIR protocol only uses ethernet and wifi so if you're using one of those inputs on the Devialet you don't need to run the Roon Ready app on the DS and you should deactivate it if it is running. I think you get a slight sound quality improvement by deactivating any output you aren't using on the Antipodes. It seems you do need to run the Roon Ready app on the Antipodes in order to enable USB output but for ethernet output the Devialet will appear in Roon's audio settings as an endpoint in it's own right and there is no need to run the Antipodes Roon Ready app. Once I came to the conclusion that the ethernet input on my 130 Pro sounded better than the USB input, I actually used the option in the Antipodes web interface to uninstall the Roon Ready app and I've been running happily without it ever since. There's also an option in the Roon Server settings in the Antipodes web interface to tell Roon to ignore the coax and optical outputs on the DS but you won't have those outputs on your CX so no need to worry about that.

Once the Devialet becomes Roon Ready it should appear as a Roon Ready endpoint in Roon's audio settings on its own, just as it currently appears as an endpoint using AIR, without needing to run the Antipodes Roon Ready app. I don't know what will happen about USB then. That will depend on whether Devialet make their USB input Roon Ready as well as the ethernet input.

PM me if you want to discuss any of this further, and do let me know what you think of the CX when you get it. I am tempted to go down that route myself.

David

[cereal killer]

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If the  Devialet itself could become a roon core then game over... they kill the market for good and the rest of the source/streamer/dac/pre-amp/amp/cable industry mostly goes bankrupt.

Whether we're using the AIR protocol with Roon as at present, or RAAT when the CI amps become Roon Ready, the Devialet is a renderer so we should get best results running Roon Core on a different device.

David

So when (if ) the Expert becomes RAAT compatible that will make the Expert a Roon Renderer?

I'm asking as like you I have an Antipodes (was a DS, but come late June will be a CX), but when having the DS as the Core I had to run both the Server and Renderer software on the Antipodes to get Roon working. So you're saying once the Expert is RAAT compatible I can run just the Roon Server OS on the CX and the Expert will run the Roon Renderer software (not sure how that works).

Also would this mean I can only connect to the Expert via Ethernet connection and via USB (the Expert can only be a Renderer if sent info via Ethernet)?

Cheers
John

PS  Sorry if the above query really isn't part of this App thread

John, it already is in effect working as a renderer. I have roonserver installed on the NAS which is directly connected  to my Expert via ethernet. roon has Devialet AIR drivers as default. so its PnP.

Regards,

Raj (Rajaish)

[Celts88]

@David A

Not sure if we should shift this talk to the Streaming threads as not strictly to do with this new App thread (if the moderators want to shift ok, or I can delete these posts and redo in Roon or Antipodes thread).

Quick one, there was something Mark Jenkins said about if going via Ethernet I can stick with just the CX, but if going via USB to Expert then CX+EX would be the best option (separating the Roon software). As the CX has direct Ethernet (for others the new Antipodes have 2 Ethernet ports) then going from CX to Expert with Ethernet is a clean option. I was just confused about the Roon Server & Ready apps, but now you've cleared it up looks like I need only the CX and Ethernet direct to the Expert and can talk both directions, e.g. if I want to use Spotify on the Expert it can talk to the Internet via the CX (like a souped up switch).

So essentially if I've got this correct, Roon at present running over Ethernet via Air, can be played with Ethernet using only Roon Server software in the CX as a Core, and in future with RAAT will make things cleaner, with added benefits that Roon RAAT endpoints can all play the same music at same time (this would be very handy, and may need to  get a couple of Pi players for this, e.g. Allo Digione &/or Boss Player).

Getting my CX in late June so will be able to report back then. Just need to know if I should get better Ethernet cables as currently running with Supra Cat 8 cables (Supra Cat 8), and my Curious USB may go to a new home.

Cheers
John

PS thanks also Raj

PPS, what a great forum this is for getting info from fellow members +1:

[David A]

@David A

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So essentially if I've got this correct, Roon at present running over Ethernet via Air, can be played with Ethernet using only Roon Server software in the CX as a Core, and in future with RAAT will make things cleaner, with added benefits that Roon RAAT endpoints can all play the same music at same time (this would be very handy, and may need to  get a couple of Pi players for this, e.g. Allo Digione &/or Boss Player).
…

John,

Yes, Roon with AIR doesn't require anything on the Antipodes other than Roon Server if you use ethernet.

When we get RAAT (I think that's pretty certain but the date we get it isn't), I think we're going to have to wait and see what benefits we get. We obviously get some extra functionality from Roon regarding playing to multiple zones/endpoints but I wonder whether we're going to get much if anything in terms of sound quality. After all, with the CX you're going to have the same direct ethernet connection from the CX to Devialet in both cases and with bit perfect transmission I can't see that using RAAT instead of AIR should make much of a difference. It may present an easier processing load for Roon Server but if it does that shouldn't make a significant difference with the CX which looks like it has more than enough processing power anyway, and there's not much point in passing it through an EX which is just going to output it to the Devialet using RAAT or AIR anyway.

I wonder whether you might get a bit of a gain from adding a P2 when Antipodes release it given that it looks like it might offer improved rechecking and some of the comments in the Munich thread suggest that may be beneficial. 

David

[Celts88]

@David A

…
So essentially if I've got this correct, Roon at present running over Ethernet via Air, can be played with Ethernet using only Roon Server software in the CX as a Core, and in future with RAAT will make things cleaner, with added benefits that Roon RAAT endpoints can all play the same music at same time (this would be very handy, and may need to  get a couple of Pi players for this, e.g. Allo Digione &/or Boss Player).
…

John,

I wonder whether you might get a bit of a gain from adding a P2 when Antipodes release it given that it looks like it might offer improved rechecking and some of the comments in the Munich thread suggest that may be beneficial. 

David

I'll need to "recheck" the reclocking mentioned in the Munich thread 

PS, agree about the P2, I have no details about it other than can come with AES, SPDIF, and clocking options as separate modules. Curious to see what the reclocking options are going to be (will trust Mark to find something worthwhile)

[whatmore]

Any remote app is completely useless until they fix the wifi phono-stage interference problem

[Hifi_swlon]

There was a reference above to Devialet perhaps adding a ‘RoonReady USB’ - this doesn’t exist. RoonReady is specifically devices using RAAT over a network.

[ssfas]

…
If the  Devialet itself could become a roon core then game over... they kill the market for good and the rest of the source/streamer/dac/pre-amp/amp/cable industry mostly goes bankrupt.

Why should the Devialet  become a Roon Core? According to Roon themselves, you get best sound quality when the Core (server) software and the renderer software are running on different devices. Whether we're using the AIR protocol with Roon as at present, or RAAT when the CI amps become Roon Ready, the Devialet is a renderer so we should get best results running Roon Core on a different device.

In addition Roon Core can do a lot of processing, especially if you're using the Roon DSP engine. The Devialet's processor also does a fair bit of DSP processing with things like SAM and tone controls. The current processor on the CI board may well not be capable off handling the DSP functions for Roon plus the Devialet DSP functions so that means needing to get a processor upgrade and new software. Considering the last 6 months of mucking around with the CI board rollout and the software program associated with that, how many of us CI owners would look forward eagerly to going through another hardware and software upgrade program to make our amps capable of doing Roon Core functions as well as what they are currently doing? Not many, and I suspect that not a lot of non-CI owners are going to rush to that upgrade after hearing of all the issues that CI owners have gone through with the current upgrade program, especially to end up with a 1 device solution for Roon that Roon themselves say is less than ideal.

I use Roon and I don't want to give it up, and I have a 130 with the CI board. I use an Antipodes server running Roon Core and I want to keep things that way. Making the Devialet a Roon Core as well as renderer is not the best way to go to get the best results from Roon according to Roon themselves and I have no reason to doubt them on that.

As for such a change being earth shattering for the industry as a whole, forget that. It would not happen. People opt for different sorts of setup for a lot of reasons and Devialet's approach and models don't suit many people. There's always going to be a wide range of options for people to choose between simply because of the widely differing end results a lot of different people are chasing..

Not everyone uses Roon either. I don't. Devialet Expert is still a niche product and I expect it to remain so, there are plenty of other, and cheaper options. Parasound Halo + Aries, AVM integrated.

I have been doing the CI beta, but avoided grief by using usb most of the time, which has always worked. Now the ethernet inputs are working properly, I use them.