Phantoms not supporting anything higher than 24bits/48Khz

[quagga]

FWIW I thought the 24/96 indication was there in the first place with DOS2 being marked as 24/48.

I thought the DAC was specified at up to 24/96, but each input said 24/48... I'm not sure. I don't have any screen dumps from last week, but this is what it says now on features:

Yep. It was like DAC 24bits/96kHz and each input said 24bits/48kHz last week.

[quagga]

My summary is as follows.
Different batches of versions of the speakers have different input parts therefore earlier ones support higher sampling frequencies than the current ones. There are people reporting they feed 24bits/192kHz and the file is played (downscaled probably but it is not rejected). Some others can not get any sound if they do that with 192kHz. Soit means that there are some hardware sourcing changes.

It might not affect the end result though, because we just do not know whether higher resolutions are downscaled. To start with a hi res is good but not much if you can not make use of it fully. If this was and is the case then the only convenience of hi res supporting inputs is the ability to accept such files instead the speaker not playing it at all.

The second change is the internal DAC capability, it was stated even for the Reactors to be 24bits/192kHz, and now it is 24bits/96kHz.
But why? What is the use of 96kHz when your DOS (DOS2) is rated 48kHz. And what was the kHz of the earlier operating system (DOS1) while the DAC was 192kHz.

There are a lot of unknowns. I want to buy a pair of reactor 900s (now IIs 98 dB) not because of sound quality as there are much better alternatives at same or less price for the scope of genre I listen to (I am not into popular music, neither R&B, Drum'n'Bass, etc., more like 60's-70's-80'S rock, and then jazz , classical, ethnic ambient and experimental music) . The reason I want Devialet is the form factor, wirelessness, and convenience. But it is like a puzzle now.

[rsemedo]

My summary is as follows.
Different batches of versions of the speakers have different input parts therefore earlier ones support higher sampling frequencies than the current ones. There are people reporting they feed 24bits/192kHz and the file is played (downscaled probably but it is not rejected). Some others can not get any sound if they do that with 192kHz. Soit means that there are some hardware sourcing changes.

It might not affect the end result though, because we just do not know whether higher resolutions are downscaled. To start with a hi res is good but not much if you can not make use of it fully. If this was and is the case then the only convenience of hi res supporting inputs is the ability to accept such files instead the speaker not playing it at all.

The second change is the internal DAC capability, it was stated even for the Reactors to be 24bits/192kHz, and now it is 24bits/96kHz.
But why? What is the use of 96kHz when your DOS (DOS2)  is rated 48kHz.  And what was the kHz of the earlier operating system (DOS1) while the DAC was 192kHz.

There are a lot of unknowns. I want to buy a pair of reactor 900s (now IIs 98 dB) not because of sound quality as there are much better  alternatives at same or less price for the scope of genre I listen to (I am not into popular music, neither R&B, Drum'n'Bass, etc., more like 60's-70's-80'S rock, and then jazz , classical, ethnic ambient and experimental music) . The reason I want Devialet is the form factor, wirelessness, and convenience. But it is like a puzzle now.

Exactly my thoughts...Devialet it's just too dangerous, you don't really know what is coming, it's all driven by marketing FUD and even they don't seem to understand their own products with all the changes of specs...I've been waiting for the Roon capability for years to finally "spread" my house with Gold's and Reactors for my kids, etc, and simplify my HIFI system.... not doing it anymore...the only people happy are the ones using them has a very expensive Bluetooth speaker, listening to Spotify and connected via Toslink to their TV's... obviously everyone values their money differently, but 5k for that is completely insane....like you say, there are dozens of other/better options for that kind of listening requirement...

[struts]

I've been waiting for the Roon capability for years to finally "spread" my house with Gold's and Reactors for my kids, etc, and simplify my HIFI system.... not doing it anymore...the only people happy are the ones using them has a very expensive Bluetooth speaker, listening to Spotify and connected via Toslink to their TV's... obviously everyone values their money differently, but 5k for that is completely insane....

Haha!  I installed systems in each of my kids' rooms (not Reactors, I'm not as generous a Dad as you!) and all they do is listen to Spotify over Bluetooth and connect their TVs via Toslink!

[DesertEagleAZ]

I am surprised by your discovery of Roon Ready allowing 24/96. I used this input for HiRez stuff, but Roon showed 24/48.

What's the reason of that?

I have to admit I can’t make head or tail of this.  In what way does Phantom support RAAT at 24/96 but not at 24/192?  My Phantoms at least appear to treat them identically.

I played a 24/96 cut of Nora Jones “Come Away With Me” via Roon.  The Roon signal path shows it being padded to 64 bit for SRC and then downsampled to 24/48, consistent with the published limitation of DOS 2.  The track played without problems on my K28 (mid-2017) Phantom Golds and sounded lovely. Then I played a 24/192 version of the same album, with *exactly* the same result.

Just to further add to the confusion both tracks also play without problems from Audirvana via UPnP.  So my Phantoms are not rejecting 24/192 material sent over either RAAT (which downsamples to match endpoint) or UPnP (which afaik doesn’t), even if it is downsampling both to 24/48 before conversion. 

So I would say either these inputs support 24/192 (in the sense that they will accept input programme at that resolution) or that they support 24/48 (in the sense that regardless of whether the programme is 24/96 or 24/192 it is downsampled to 24/48 for DAC).

Now I realise the 24/96 spec for the Roon input refers to the Phantom I 108 dB, so maybe there is a difference between the two hardware generations?  Could someone with the new model please rerun this test and report back?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My Phantoms are from the series K45 and L37, so pretty old. This is what happens with "Come Away With Me":

192kHz/24Bit version:
   

96kHz/24Bit version:
   

Same for the slightly newer Reactors 600 (L45-47, "Phantom II 95dB Duo"   ) — which is apparently what Devialet claim on the updated specs. Everything sounds better than ever btw...

Quick Edit: Slightly curious why the on-device downsampling isn't marked as a "High Quality" step in the Signal Path. Maybe a marketing spin by Roon and Devialet?

[quagga]

Roon RAAT gets information directly from the Devialet Operating System (DOS) and tells the truth. Everything is down sampled to 48kHz within Phantoms. @struts  has a plan to verify this https://devialetchat.com/Thread-Can-DOS-...bove-24kHz

Unfortunately, it seems you are right, everything is down to 48kHz  within the speaker whatever the source and connection is.

The point of such specs, as Reactor 900's following for example, is like the Phantom telling us "I will do you a favor and not ask for low-res music files, jut give me your hi-res and I can lower it to 48kHz for you": 

• On-board Texas Instruments PCM1796 24-bit / 192 kHz DAC
  

Same with the inputs. Just a convenience, ensuring it will also play the high-res files, at low res. 

Funny.

[ogs]

there are dozens of other/better options for that kind of listening requirement...

Maybe apart from deep bass. Even the Phantom II 95 has better bass than any comparable speaker out there, but not all music lovers are bass freaks (like me )  so the LS50W2 may be good enough. And it has better mid band too.

[struts]

DesertEagleAZ pid='100026' dateline='1613052880']

I am surprised by your discovery of Roon Ready allowing 24/96. I used this input for HiRez stuff, but Roon showed 24/48.

What's the reason of that?

I have to admit I can’t make head or tail of this.  In what way does Phantom support RAAT at 24/96 but not at 24/192?  My Phantoms at least appear to treat them identically.

I played a 24/96 cut of Nora Jones “Come Away With Me” via Roon.  The Roon signal path shows it being padded to 64 bit for SRC and then downsampled to 24/48, consistent with the published limitation of DOS 2.  The track played without problems on my K28 (mid-2017) Phantom Golds and sounded lovely. Then I played a 24/192 version of the same album, with *exactly* the same result.

Just to further add to the confusion both tracks also play without problems from Audirvana via UPnP.  So my Phantoms are not rejecting 24/192 material sent over either RAAT (which downsamples to match endpoint) or UPnP (which afaik doesn’t), even if it is downsampling both to 24/48 before conversion. 

So I would say either these inputs support 24/192 (in the sense that they will accept input programme at that resolution) or that they support 24/48 (in the sense that regardless of whether the programme is 24/96 or 24/192 it is downsampled to 24/48 for DAC).

Now I realise the 24/96 spec for the Roon input refers to the Phantom I 108 dB, so maybe there is a difference between the two hardware generations?  Could someone with the new model please rerun this test and report back?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My Phantoms are from the series K45 and L37, so pretty old. This is what happens with "Come Away With Me":

192kHz/24Bit version:


96kHz/24Bit version:


Same for the slightly newer Reactors 600 (L45-47, "Phantom II 95dB Duo"   ) — which is apparently what Devialet claim on the updated specs. Everything sounds better than ever btw...

Quick Edit: Slightly curious why the on-device downsampling isn't marked as a "High Quality" step in the Signal Path. Maybe a marketing spin by Roon and Devialet?

Interesting @DesertEagleAZ, thanks for posting.  So your paths indicate that the Phantom accepts 24/96 on the Roon/RAAT input (forcing Roon to downsample to 24/96) and then further downsamples to 24/48 internally. Pretty much what we had concluded from Devialet's somewhat cryptic specs.

My signal paths are slightly simpler, but seeing the difference reminded me that I have explicitly set the max sample rate for the Phantoms to 48kHz in Roon settings to avoid the unnecessary SRC step:

   

   

[K1MCHI]

I have to admit I can’t make head or tail of this.  In what way does Phantom support RAAT at 24/96 but not at 24/192?  My Phantoms at least appear to treat them identically.

I played a 24/96 cut of Nora Jones “Come Away With Me” via Roon.  The Roon signal path shows it being padded to 64 bit for SRC and then downsampled to 24/48, consistent with the published limitation of DOS 2.  The track played without problems on my K28 (mid-2017) Phantom Golds and sounded lovely. Then I played a 24/192 version of the same album, with *exactly* the same result.

Just to further add to the confusion both tracks also play without problems from Audirvana via UPnP.  So my Phantoms are not rejecting 24/192 material sent over either RAAT (which downsamples to match endpoint) or UPnP (which afaik doesn’t), even if it is downsampling both to 24/48 before conversion. 

So I would say either these inputs support 24/192 (in the sense that they will accept input programme at that resolution) or that they support 24/48 (in the sense that regardless of whether the programme is 24/96 or 24/192 it is downsampled to 24/48 for DAC).

Now I realise the 24/96 spec for the Roon input refers to the Phantom I 108 dB, so maybe there is a difference between the two hardware generations?  Could someone with the new model please rerun this test and report back?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My Phantoms are from the series K45 and L37, so pretty old. This is what happens with "Come Away With Me":

192kHz/24Bit version:


96kHz/24Bit version:


Same for the slightly newer Reactors 600 (L45-47, "Phantom II 95dB Duo"   ) — which is apparently what Devialet claim on the updated specs. Everything sounds better than ever btw...

Quick Edit: Slightly curious why the on-device downsampling isn't marked as a "High Quality" step in the Signal Path. Maybe a marketing spin by Roon and Devialet?

Interesting @DesertEagleAZ, thanks for posting.  So your paths indicate that the Phantom accepts 24/96 on the Roon/RAAT input (forcing Roon to downsample to 24/96) and then further downsamples to 24/48 internally.  Pretty much what we had concluded from Devialet's somewhat cryptic specs.

My signal paths are slightly simpler, but seeing the difference reminded me that I have explicitly set the max sample rate for the Phantoms to 48kHz in Roon settings to avoid the unnecessary SRC step:

So when using Roon with Tidal and Qobuz, I notice the following:

Playing Tidal Hi-Res / Master: Don't see any sign in Roon communication path of downrgrading.

Playing Quobuz higher than 48KHz: I see in Roon that Phantom Gold (Duo) is downsampling to 48KHz

I don't have anything else to offer than this - hoping my observations help the community get to the bottom of this! I would also be greatly disappointed if we can't get at LEAST 96KHz out of these speakers, if not 192KHz eventually.

I'm also happy to be more involved in experimentation / investigation. Any individuals who are more invested in this, feel free to DM me!

[bpo]

I am surprised by your discovery of Roon Ready allowing 24/96. I used this input for HiRez stuff, but Roon showed 24/48.

What's the reason of that?

I have to admit I can’t make head or tail of this.  In what way does Phantom support RAAT at 24/96 but not at 24/192?  My Phantoms at least appear to treat them identically.

I played a 24/96 cut of Nora Jones “Come Away With Me” via Roon.  The Roon signal path shows it being padded to 64 bit for SRC and then downsampled to 24/48, consistent with the published limitation of DOS 2.  The track played without problems on my K28 (mid-2017) Phantom Golds and sounded lovely. Then I played a 24/192 version of the same album, with *exactly* the same result.

Just to further add to the confusion both tracks also play without problems from Audirvana via UPnP.  So my Phantoms are not rejecting 24/192 material sent over either RAAT (which downsamples to match endpoint) or UPnP (which afaik doesn’t), even if it is downsampling both to 24/48 before conversion. 

So I would say either these inputs support 24/192 (in the sense that they will accept input programme at that resolution) or that they support 24/48 (in the sense that regardless of whether the programme is 24/96 or 24/192 it is downsampled to 24/48 for DAC).

Now I realise the 24/96 spec for the Roon input refers to the Phantom I 108 dB, so maybe there is a difference between the two hardware generations?  Could someone with the new model please rerun this test and report back?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My Phantoms are from the series K45 and L37, so pretty old. This is what happens with "Come Away With Me":

192kHz/24Bit version:


96kHz/24Bit version:


Same for the slightly newer Reactors 600 (L45-47, "Phantom II 95dB Duo"   ) — which is apparently what Devialet claim on the updated specs. Everything sounds better than ever btw...

Quick Edit: Slightly curious why the on-device downsampling isn't marked as a "High Quality" step in the Signal Path. Maybe a marketing spin by Roon and Devialet?

Maybe I'm stating the obvious, but what I'm getting from the your screen grabs is that if you feed the Phantoms 96Hz/24Bit it does not downconvert and resample at 48Hz?  It maintains it at 96Hz?  If so that is a big improvement from what was previously being reported and/or the previous spec.