Phantoms not supporting anything higher than 24bits/48Khz

[howcho]

Yes it's playing but it's downsampled to 48khz in the Phantom like specified on the spec sheet.

This makes absolutely no sense, why would it downsample a signal that has already arrived? What is the economy of that? Especially over ethernet.
I get it for streaming signals being downsampled before they are transmitted, like Roon. Besides, there doesnt seem to be a way of knowing if its downsampling the 24/192

I would say a possible explanation, I already placed in an other thread here in the forum, is that your hires signal arrives as a stereo signal to one of the Phantoms or in DOS1 to Dialog. Then the stereo stream needs to be separated in that Phantom or in Dialog (DOS1) and one channel has to be sent again through the network time stamped or synchronized (with a precision in timing of 50us) constantly to the other Phantom to be played in Stereo on both Phantoms. Multiply this for multiroom. This is a lot of bandwidth many home networks fail. Here are the hiccups Devialet has to solve and that not many companies are able to deliver, name Apple, Google, Sonos.... All of them stayed below hires 24/192k some far away! Apple sticks to 24/48k, Google tried 24/96k, gave up on it. Sonos did no go hires as far as I can recall. Devialet with DOS1 and Spark and Dialog tried to stick on 24/192k then went down the road to 24/96k and now landed at 24/48k. The reason: only in few networks, e.g. with using PLC and ‘rural environment’, which is my condition Dialog, multiroom, on DOS1 with Dialog works like a charm. But, similar setups in cities, big blocks, with many competing networks make it impossible to meet the real-time requirements or QoS that a steaming system needs for hires. So as a consequence, I guess, Devialet had to downscale in DOS2 the internal delivery, this is after you send your stream to the master recipient through Roon, upnp, or optical, to something that works in an average network (sending the stream to all Phantoms. And then Roon asks for transparency, I.e. full display of the entire signal path from the original data on the streaming service or local drive to what arrives at the DAQ before it is amplified and actuates the speaker. And I think that’s where Roon asks for transparency from companies to receive the “Roon ready” label. Devialet bit into it at the price to reveal that what arrives at the DAQ of all speakers and they had to change the specs. This is my guess, I have no insights into how Devialet operates or makes business. I’m only an early adopter of Phantoms since it’s beginning and went through all history of these fabulous speakers, except did not yet upgrade to DOS2 as my system works solid and reliable. Coming back to the problem of streaming. It’s not about what signal can be sent to a device, it’s about what in the end arrives at the DAQ. You can blow up or compress on the way to the DAQ as much as you want. In the end what counts is what arrives there. As much as I dislike MQA it follows that path, unfortunately not transparently as simple PCM does, or Flac, Alac, AIFF, and other formats.
In conclusion: What you stream to as system is not what might arrives at the DAQ. What Devialet now specifies having added Roon is state of the art. What the Phantoms (Golds) should be able to output would require at least 24/88.2k streams being converted by the DAQ as the specified frequency range is 14Hz-27kHz (-6dB). The DAQ is capable of 24/192k. The networked stream between Phantoms obviously is not. And it looks like on newer Phantoms there is also a problem on what to optical input can take (only 24/96k instead of 24/192k what is no problem in older Phantoms).

Yes, I was stupid to listen to my dealer and upgrade from DOS1 to DOS2 yesterday. Is there any way  to reboot the Dialog and my two Golds back to DOS1? I want my speakers back.

[streamy]

Yes, I was stupid to listen to my dealer and upgrade from DOS1 to DOS2 yesterday. Is there any way  to reboot the Dialog and my two Golds back to DOS1? I want my speakers back.

Not that I know of, unfortunately. Devialet, in theory should be able, as they put the firmware on the devices in first place. But, officially they do not offer it. But, asking is never forbidden.

[rsemedo]

Yes it's playing but it's downsampled to 48khz in the Phantom like specified on the spec sheet.

This makes absolutely no sense, why would it downsample a signal that has already arrived? What is the economy of that? Especially over ethernet.
I get it for streaming signals being downsampled before they are transmitted, like Roon. Besides, there doesnt seem to be a way of knowing if its downsampling the 24/192

I would say a possible explanation, I already placed in an other thread here in the forum, is that your hires signal arrives as a stereo signal to one of the Phantoms or in DOS1 to Dialog. Then the stereo stream needs to be separated in that Phantom or in Dialog (DOS1) and one channel has to be sent again through the network time stamped or synchronized (with a precision in timing of 50us) constantly to the other Phantom to be played in Stereo on both Phantoms. Multiply this for multiroom. This is a lot of bandwidth many home networks fail. Here are the hiccups Devialet has to solve and that not many companies are able to deliver, name Apple, Google, Sonos.... All of them stayed below hires 24/192k some far away! Apple sticks to 24/48k, Google tried 24/96k, gave up on it. Sonos did no go hires as far as I can recall. Devialet with DOS1 and Spark and Dialog tried to stick on 24/192k then went down the road to 24/96k and now landed at 24/48k. The reason: only in few networks, e.g. with using PLC and ‘rural environment’, which is my condition Dialog, multiroom, on DOS1 with Dialog works like a charm. But, similar setups in cities, big blocks, with many competing networks make it impossible to meet the real-time requirements or QoS that a steaming system needs for hires. So as a consequence, I guess, Devialet had to downscale in DOS2 the internal delivery, this is after you send your stream to the master recipient through Roon, upnp, or optical, to something that works in an average network (sending the stream to all Phantoms. And then Roon asks for transparency, I.e. full display of the entire signal path from the original data on the streaming service or local drive to what arrives at the DAQ before it is amplified and actuates the speaker. And I think that’s where Roon asks for transparency from companies to receive the “Roon ready” label. Devialet bit into it at the price to reveal that what arrives at the DAQ of all speakers and they had to change the specs. This is my guess, I have no insights into how Devialet operates or makes business. I’m only an early adopter of Phantoms since it’s beginning and went through all history of these fabulous speakers, except did not yet upgrade to DOS2 as my system works solid and reliable. Coming back to the problem of streaming. It’s not about what signal can be sent to a device, it’s about what in the end arrives at the DAQ. You can blow up or compress on the way to the DAQ as much as you want. In the end what counts is what arrives there. As much as I dislike MQA it follows that path, unfortunately not transparently as simple PCM does, or Flac, Alac, AIFF, and other formats.
In conclusion: What you stream to as system is not what might arrives at the DAQ. What Devialet now specifies having added Roon is state of the art. What the Phantoms (Golds) should be able to output would require at least 24/88.2k streams being converted by the DAQ as the specified frequency range is 14Hz-27kHz (-6dB). The DAQ is capable of 24/192k. The networked stream between Phantoms obviously is not. And it looks like on newer Phantoms there is also a problem on what to optical input can take (only 24/96k instead of 24/192k what is no problem in older Phantoms).

I think what you're missing in your analysis is what other vendors are doing in that space and it's becoming main stream....24/48 it's not it....and if your speakers have an ethernet port, why not give the users the opportunity to wired the all thing and have 24/192 available in that setup...? Again it's the industry standard....not even Apple charges 10k for AirPlay speakers... ;-))

[streamy]

I think what you're missing in your analysis is what other vendors are doing in that space and it's becoming main stream....24/48 it's not it....and if your speakers have an ethernet port, why not give the users the opportunity to wired the all thing and have 24/192 available in that setup...? Again it's the industry standard....not even Apple charges 10k for AirPlay speakers... ;-))

You are probably right, but I do not know them. Can you give some examples, which system receive through Ethernet to each device ETH and do not work in a master-slave mode or with a hub that uses a proprietary and wired communication among each speaker at 24/192?

[rsemedo]

I think what you're missing in your analysis is what other vendors are doing in that space and it's becoming main stream....24/48 it's not it....and if your speakers have an ethernet port, why not give the users the opportunity to wired the all thing and have 24/192 available in that setup...? Again it's the industry standard....not even Apple charges 10k for AirPlay speakers... ;-))

You are probably right, but I do not know them. Can you give some examples, which system receive through Ethernet to each device ETH and do not work in a master-slave mode or with a hub that uses a proprietary and wired communication among each speaker at 24/192?

I think you miss my point regarding how to achieve 24/192 or 24/96, etc...I'm aware with the challenges of implement that via Wireless, but I'm talking about give their users the option to do it if willing to....both very popular and cheaper solutions from kef ls50 II and buchardt a500 implement a standard via Wireless 24/96 with wired options to achieve 24/192...I've my Phantom's wired anyway because of stability issues and I don't have an option to achieve 24/192 no matter what....well there's UPnP, but Devialet doesn't offer an elegant solution for that and the other options out there are all subpar for a 10k stereo system....Roon was the hope, but did go the other way....

[streamy]

Thanks for the examples. I thought the Kefs were operating in master slave mode. One received the stream and then made the stereo split and sent the other channel to the 2nd speaker in a proprietary format that from outside could not be verified what the resolution really is. By the way, 10k must probably be the price in another currency than €. My Gold Phantoms accept 24/192k through Spark and also through optical. But what they do internally I do not know. When I bought them (for 5180 € per pair and a Dialog and AppleTV were included, official prize in the Devialet store) their specs were 24/192k and I did not upgrade to DOS2.

[howcho]

Yes, I was stupid to listen to my dealer and upgrade from DOS1 to DOS2 yesterday. Is there any way  to reboot the Dialog and my two Golds back to DOS1? I want my speakers back.

Not that I know of, unfortunately. Devialet, in theory should be able, as they put the firmware on the devices in first place. But, officially they do not offer it. But, asking is never forbidden.

I have asked them if they can keep SPARK as a combo with the last upgrade on DOS1 as a commitment to thoose of us who bought that speaker.  No upgrades, but available till eternity. Fingers crossed

[howcho]

So some impressions on my new DOS2 Phantom Golds, with MQA Masters with Node2i through optical and Dialog. It is like you had Tesla model s ludicrous performance and now you have Volkswagen 3id. The original Golds are a hidden jewel for high-end freaks like myself, quite remarkable and with unique possibilities like the ludicrous mode hidden on Tesla. The DOS2 24/48 is an ID3. I want my Tesla back. I am worried for Devialet, they are struggling to please everyone and being on top of both the hardware and software - maybe it is time for Apple to buy them?

[JDtheJD]

So some impressions on my new DOS2 Phantom Golds, with MQA Masters with Node2i through optical and Dialog. It is like you had Tesla model s ludicrous performance and now you have Volkswagen 3id. The original Golds are a hidden jewel for high-end freaks like myself, quite remarkable and with unique possibilities like the ludicrous mode hidden on Tesla. The DOS2 24/48 is an ID3. I want my Tesla back. I am worried for Devialet, they are struggling to please everyone and being on top of both the hardware and software  - maybe it is time for Apple to buy them?

I enjoy the car analogy.  I have done the same to explain why I would or would not recommend the speaker to everyone.  What I liked about the speakers when I first got them was that they could be the ludicrous Tesla for me (when I had the time and patience) and a minivan for everyone else. With the last update, the speakers for the moment out of commission.

[rsemedo]

Thanks for the examples. I thought the Kefs were operating in master slave mode. One received the stream and then made the stereo split and sent the other channel to the 2nd speaker in a proprietary format that from outside could not be verified what the resolution really is. By the way, 10k must probably be the price in another currency than €. My Gold Phantoms accept 24/192k through Spark and also through optical. But what they do internally I do not know. When I bought them (for 5180 € per pair and a Dialog and AppleTV were included, official prize in the Devialet store) their specs were 24/192k and I did not upgrade to DOS2.

AUD5,490 per speaker (new price) to be precise... 🙄