18-Sep-2018, 22:28 (This post was last modified: 18-Sep-2018, 22:59 by David A.)
I use Roon and I'm really happy with it but I'm not pushing it as a solution because it isn't the only solution and there are a lot of options, all with different advantages and disadvantages. Bearing that in mind, Roon do say that you need 3 things for Roon to work and those things are universal regardless of what option you choose so perhaps it's worth while considering things based on those requirements:
1- the server which means a hard drive for storage and software to organise your music and to send the music you want to play to your Devialet. I discussed the options there above but didn't really mention the issue of where you want to put the server physically in relation to your Devialet, in the same room or where your MacBook normally lives which I assume is where your network router is located. Your choice of location will narrow your choice of options.
2- a control point. That can be software running on the computer the server software is located on or it can be on a separate device such as a laptop or tablet in another location so you have a choice between server and control point in the same location or server and control point in different locations. That can influence your decision about the server.
3- an end point which is where the music gets played, in this case your Devialet.
You don't have to sacrifice a laptop just for Roon. You can run Roon software or other software on your laptop and leave it where you normally leave it and continue to use it just as you have been doing but just have it running an additional application. You can store the music on a NAS connected to your router so music storage doesn't impact on your laptop use. The NAS drive could also be located near the Devialet or even somewhere separate from both the laptop and the Devialet provided it is connected to the same network as the Devialet and server software.
You can control Roon or a lot of other software options from something like an iPad in the room where you listen, or even from your laptop in that room if you're prepared to take the laptop with you when you're listening to music.
How you set up your network gives you a lot of flexibility and you don't need to sacrifice a laptop just to the purpose of playing music unless you want to. You've got options. There's a lot of ways of connecting storage for music, a device running server software to manage the music, control of the server software, and the Devialet on a network which also provides the internet access you need for streaming services and for some server software. Where the various physical devices are located is flexible, they just need to be connected to the same network and you can use all wifi, all ethernet, or a mix of wifi and ethernet connections to tie them all together.
Work out what kind of setup and network situation works best for you in your home and go from there. You don't have to have everything in one room or tie up one laptop or computer just for the music system unless you want to do that, and whatever you do you can change it at any time in the future if your situation changes such as a move to a new home or if you buy a new laptop and decide to keep the current one and dedicate it to the music system. Computer audio setups are flexible which is great because situations change.
Addition: Another thought, don't know if it will work.
You've got an Aurender. You can see the Aurender's drive on your MacBook so even though the Aurender can't run Roon you should be able to run Roon or other sever software on your MacBook and tell it that the music is stored on the Aurender and basically treat the Aurender as a NAS drive. Roon or the other software can catalogue and control the music. You could even store music on the Aurender in formats it's own software can't work with provided the server software you run on the MacBook can work with it. I don't think you would be able to use the Aurender's USB output, you would be using its network connection and then streaming to the Devialet using a network output from your MacBook. It would be easy to see if this works, just download and install the Roon or other server software to your MacBook on a free trial, set it up, see if it works and whether you like it. No need to change anything about your current network connections at all and you can switch between using whatever software you instal on the MacBook and using the Aurender's software for comparison to see which you prefer in terms of both sound quality and interface.
Roon Nucleus+, Devilalet Expert 140 Pro CI, Focal Sopra 2, PS Audio P12, Keces P8 LPS, Uptone Audio EtherREGEN with optical fibre link to my router, Shunyata Alpha NR and Sigma NR power cables, Shunyata Sigma ethernet cables, Shunyata Alpha V2 speaker cables, Grand Prix Audio Monaco rack, RealTRAPS acoustic treatment.
(18-Sep-2018, 22:28)David A Wrote: I use Roon and I'm really happy with it but I'm not pushing it as a solution because it isn't the only solution and there are a lot of options, all with different advantages and disadvantages. Bearing that in mind, Roon do say that you need 3 things for Roon to work and those things are universal regardless of what option you choose so perhaps it's worth while considering things based on those requirements:
1- the server which means a hard drive for storage and software to organise your music and to send the music you want to play to your Devialet. I discussed the options there above but didn't really mention the issue of where you want to put the server physically in relation to your Devialet, in the same room or where your MacBook normally lives which I assume is where your network router is located. Your choice of location will narrow your choice of options.
2- a control point. That can be software running on the computer the server software is located on or it can be on a separate device such as a laptop or tablet in another location so you have a choice between server and control point in the same location or server and control point in different locations. That can influence your decision about the server.
3- an end point which is where the music gets played, in this case your Devialet.
You don't have to sacrifice a laptop just for Roon. You can run Roon software or other software on your laptop and leave it where you normally leave it and continue to use it just as you have been doing but just have it running an additional application. You can store the music on a NAS connected to your router so music storage doesn't impact on your laptop use. The NAS drive could also be located near the Devialet or even somewhere separate from both the laptop and the Devialet provided it is connected to the same network as the Devialet and server software.
You can control Roon or a lot of other software options from something like an iPad in the room where you listen, or even from your laptop in that room if you're prepared to take the laptop with you when you're listening to music.
How you set up your network gives you a lot of flexibility and you don't need to sacrifice a laptop just to the purpose of playing music unless you want to. You've got options. There's a lot of ways of connecting storage for music, a device running server software to manage the music, control of the server software, and the Devialet on a network which also provides the internet access you need for streaming services and for some server software. Where the various physical devices are located is flexible, they just need to be connected to the same network and you can use all wifi, all ethernet, or a mix of wifi and ethernet connections to tie them all together.
Work out what kind of setup and network situation works best for you in your home and go from there. You don't have to have everything in one room or tie up one laptop or computer just for the music system unless you want to do that, and whatever you do you can change it at any time in the future if your situation changes such as a move to a new home or if you buy a new laptop and decide to keep the current one and dedicate it to the music system. Computer audio setups are flexible which is great because situations change.
Addition: Another thought, don't know if it will work.
You've got an Aurender. You can see the Aurender's drive on your MacBook so even though the Aurender can't run Roon you should be able to run Roon or other sever software on your MacBook and tell it that the music is stored on the Aurender and basically treat the Aurender as a NAS drive. Roon or the other software can catalogue and control the music. You could even store music on the Aurender in formats it's own software can't work with provided the server software you run on the MacBook can work with it. I don't think you would be able to use the Aurender's USB output, you would be using its network connection and then streaming to the Devialet using a network output from your MacBook. It would be easy to see if this works, just download and install the Roon or other server software to your MacBook on a free trial, set it up, see if it works and whether you like it. No need to change anything about your current network connections at all and you can switch between using whatever software you instal on the MacBook and using the Aurender's software for comparison to see which you prefer in terms of both sound quality and interface.
I just tried JRiver Media Center today, thereby exploiting the setup MacBook Pro with a USB connected G-Tech 8TB HDD in my study, Devialet with AIR in my living room and JRemote on my iPad. Streaming music from files stored on the G-Tech HDD went well, so the basic setup worked. I haven't set up Qobuz/Tidal with JRiver yet.
Streaming went well and sound quality was very good (unlike Audirvana Plus). So JRiver is potentially a system that incorporates most of what I want, that is, remote streaming of HDD-stored audio via AIR along with Qobuz/Tidal, if I manage to set it up. BUT: streaming started out very well, but later on there were occasional drop-outs and stuttering of the stream. Not too bad, but it happened.
Therefore, I have not yet embarked on Roon, even though I had it installed a while ago on my Mac. But with the purchase of the Aurender, Roon became somewhat superfluous, and I cancelled my subscription. I wait till I have my 120 upgraded with the CI board. Hopefully this will improve streaming via AIR.
So, for the moment, I am back to my Aurender setup. After having played a bit with Devialet's AIR, I must say that the Aurender combines all features I need in an attractive setup that is completely reliable (never ever had a single dropout during streaming) and sounds pretty darn good!
Interesting suggestion you had concerning the Aurender. Will try that in the next few days!
"BUT: streaming started out very well, but later on there were occasional drop-outs and stuttering of the stream. Not too bad, but it happened."
I'm going to guess that you're streaming via wifi. Since you've got a Mac, what wifi system are you using? Is it an Airport Extreme?
When I started streaming I was using my Mac Mini / iTunes/Devialet AIR and an AirPort Extreme. I could get a connection and streaming would start and then things would drop out. I simply couldn't get it to work reliably. In the end my solution was to buy a second AirPort Extreme which I placed next to my 130 and continued using wifi, hoping that the proximity of a second AirPort Extreme would solve the problem. It didn't. I then connected the 130 to the nearby AirPort Extreme via ethernet and my problems pretty much went away.
Some time after that I started really reading up on wifi networks at various sites. I don't know whether it was on the Roon site or Computer Audiophile or somewhere else but I found an article which said that the Apple Airport devices had problems and recommending other wifi routers. I opted for a Netgear Orbi mesh setup with a hub device connected to my modem and a satellite next to the 130. Wifi worked a lot better but I continued using an ethernet connection to the satellite and never really had any problems apart. In the end, however, I had an AV installer I know instal a wired connection from the room my computer and modem are in to the room where the system is. That gave me a better connection, and I felt I got a bit of an improvement in sound quality.
Some time during all that while I was still using wifi, I can't remember when during that time but I think it was before I swapped from the AirPort Extremes to the Orbi setup, Devialet sent out an email announcing their arrangement with Roon and giving a code for a 3 month free trial. I took the free trial and started using the version of AIR incorporated in Roon rather than Devialet's app. That worked much better for me than streaming with Devialet's app on the Mac Mini.
If you're having drop out and stuttering problems and you're using wifi, I'd look at your wifi network for the cause and if you're using an Apple AirPort device I would seriously consider changing it. I'd give you a link to the article I found but I can't remember where I found it and the last time I looked for it I couldn't find it.
One of the things about the CI board upgrade is that when your amp comes back you'll find a wifi antenna sticking out of the back of the amp. Just for the hell of it I tried a wifi connection after I got my 130 back from the CI upgrade and wifi worked better for me than it did before the amp got the upgrade but I still felt that ethernet was better. If you're going to use a wifi connection then that could well be another reason to go for the upgrade regardless of whatever else you decide to do on the streaming front.
And if your Aurender is completely reliable and sounds pretty darn good as you say, then I think that's a good reason for making haste slowly on changes to your streaming setup. You can probably do better, after all it's always possible to do better but doing better tends to involve throwing money at the problem and it's easy to throw lots of money at problems in pursuit of better sound. If you're seriously considering the CI upgrade then I'd seriously consider doing that before making changes to your streaming setup with the Aurender if that's working well, and I'd also look at improving your wifi network before changing the Aurender for something else as well. If the Aurender is working well then changes there would be last on my list of priorities.
Roon Nucleus+, Devilalet Expert 140 Pro CI, Focal Sopra 2, PS Audio P12, Keces P8 LPS, Uptone Audio EtherREGEN with optical fibre link to my router, Shunyata Alpha NR and Sigma NR power cables, Shunyata Sigma ethernet cables, Shunyata Alpha V2 speaker cables, Grand Prix Audio Monaco rack, RealTRAPS acoustic treatment.
(19-Sep-2018, 23:45)David A Wrote: "BUT: streaming started out very well, but later on there were occasional drop-outs and stuttering of the stream. Not too bad, but it happened."
I'm going to guess that you're streaming via wifi. Since you've got a Mac, what wifi system are you using? Is it an Airport Extreme?
When I started streaming I was using my Mac Mini / iTunes/Devialet AIR and an AirPort Extreme. I could get a connection and streaming would start and then things would drop out. I simply couldn't get it to work reliably. In the end my solution was to buy a second AirPort Extreme which I placed next to my 130 and continued using wifi, hoping that the proximity of a second AirPort Extreme would solve the problem. It didn't. I then connected the 130 to the nearby AirPort Extreme via ethernet and my problems pretty much went away.
Some time after that I started really reading up on wifi networks at various sites. I don't know whether it was on the Roon site or Computer Audiophile or somewhere else but I found an article which said that the Apple Airport devices had problems and recommending other wifi routers. I opted for a Netgear Orbi mesh setup with a hub device connected to my modem and a satellite next to the 130. Wifi worked a lot better but I continued using an ethernet connection to the satellite and never really had any problems apart. In the end, however, I had an AV installer I know instal a wired connection from the room my computer and modem are in to the room where the system is. That gave me a better connection, and I felt I got a bit of an improvement in sound quality.
Some time during all that while I was still using wifi, I can't remember when during that time but I think it was before I swapped from the AirPort Extremes to the Orbi setup, Devialet sent out an email announcing their arrangement with Roon and giving a code for a 3 month free trial. I took the free trial and started using the version of AIR incorporated in Roon rather than Devialet's app. That worked much better for me than streaming with Devialet's app on the Mac Mini.
If you're having drop out and stuttering problems and you're using wifi, I'd look at your wifi network for the cause and if you're using an Apple AirPort device I would seriously consider changing it. I'd give you a link to the article I found but I can't remember where I found it and the last time I looked for it I couldn't find it.
One of the things about the CI board upgrade is that when your amp comes back you'll find a wifi antenna sticking out of the back of the amp. Just for the hell of it I tried a wifi connection after I got my 130 back from the CI upgrade and wifi worked better for me than it did before the amp got the upgrade but I still felt that ethernet was better. If you're going to use a wifi connection then that could well be another reason to go for the upgrade regardless of whatever else you decide to do on the streaming front.
And if your Aurender is completely reliable and sounds pretty darn good as you say, then I think that's a good reason for making haste slowly on changes to your streaming setup. You can probably do better, after all it's always possible to do better but doing better tends to involve throwing money at the problem and it's easy to throw lots of money at problems in pursuit of better sound. If you're seriously considering the CI upgrade then I'd seriously consider doing that before making changes to your streaming setup with the Aurender if that's working well, and I'd also look at improving your wifi network before changing the Aurender for something else as well. If the Aurender is working well then changes there would be last on my list of priorities.
'I'm going to guess that you're streaming via wifi. Since you've got a Mac, what wifi system are you using? Is it an Airport Extreme?'
Yes, that's correct, Airport Extreme.
'In the end my solution was to buy a second AirPort Extreme which I placed next to my 130 and continued using wifi, hoping that the proximity of a second AirPort Extreme would solve the problem. It didn't. I then connected the 130 to the nearby AirPort Extreme via ethernet and my problems pretty much went away.'
I have exactly the same setup, the second Airport Extreme is connected via an Ethernet cable Cat 8.
'I opted for a Netgear Orbi mesh setup with a hub device connected to my modem and a satellite next to the 130. Wifi worked a lot better but I continued using an ethernet connection to the satellite and never really had any problems apart.'
Good point, will look into it.
'instal a wired connection from the room my computer and modem are in to the room where the system is. That gave me a better connection, and I felt I got a bit of an improvement in sound quality.'
That's hard to do in my house. The router is two floors upstairs and installing a cable through the staircase is kind of difficult, I would have to drill several holes into the walls to pull the cable through. I might speak to my provider to see if I could have a second connection installed in the living room for ethernet use.
'started using the version of AIR incorporated in Roon rather than Devialet's app. That worked much better for me than streaming with Devialet's app on the Mac Mini.'
Will try that out once I decided to go back to Roon :-))
'I'd give you a link to the article I found but I can't remember where I found it and the last time I looked for it I couldn't find it.'
That would be great if you can find the article. I know how it is when one remembers having read something really important but unable to find it :-))
'it's always possible to do better but doing better tends to involve throwing money at the problem and it's easy to throw lots of money at problems in pursuit of better sound.'
True! The forthcoming upgrade to the 220 Pro is a hefty sum of money, but I'll invest that mainly to avoid having an unsupported system. Besides that, I really got hooked to the Devialet sound, it's just great! One more system upgrade might come later, much later actually, for new speakers. But this is of low priority for now.
(20-Sep-2018, 05:53)alaw Wrote: Streaming reliably requires a good network and a dedicated server. With MacOS, make sure to turn off spotlight on the music source by drag dropping the drive or folder into the spotlight „privacy“ tab, and turn off Time machine. These two tips solved the dropout problems I was having.
Good suggestion! Did that and will try with AIR later. Time machine had been turned off already. Thanks for the suggestions!!!
Roon Nucleus+, Devilalet Expert 140 Pro CI, Focal Sopra 2, PS Audio P12, Keces P8 LPS, Uptone Audio EtherREGEN with optical fibre link to my router, Shunyata Alpha NR and Sigma NR power cables, Shunyata Sigma ethernet cables, Shunyata Alpha V2 speaker cables, Grand Prix Audio Monaco rack, RealTRAPS acoustic treatment.
Just to complete the story: I re-activated my Roon account, re-installed it on my MacBook Pro and told Roon where my audio files are. Roon immediately recognised my Devialet and I thought, well, easy-peasy! But, after selecting a track for playing, Roon responded 'Transport: Device in Use'. This seems to be a frequently found error message after looking it up on Roon's help site. I followed Roon's instructions for the preferences settings in AIR ('never stream automatically to it'), but this didn't help. I had to quit the AIR application on my Mac, and voilà, streaming took off!
Next, I downloaded Roon's remote app for my iPad, and there I sat in my living room, streaming music from my G-Tech HDD in my study. I haven't had the time for extensive testing, this will come later on today. But the sound was really amazing, very transparent, I would even rate it a bit higher than my beloved Aurender N100H! But again, these are only initial impressions and I have to follow this up with extended testing, particularly concerning the stability of streaming. But so far, a pleasing experiment.
(21-Sep-2018, 10:16)alaw Wrote: @Sailor4W thanks for the followup, this totally echo's my experience: Roon and Devialet are a perfect match - and I can take a box out of the living room. After a month of "testing", I'm now seriously considering selling my Aurender.
Oh poor Aurender , I am not this far yet, but if things hold up, the Aurender will be switched off! There is one caveat with Roon, namely the lack of Qobuz integration. But alas, one can‘t have it all. I can still stream Qobuz via AIR and it’s own app. Maybe now that Qobuz is available in the States (or at least shortly), its integration could become fessible, who knows.
I keep you posted.
I now had Roon running for four hours without a glitch, smooth uninterrupted streaming from my MacBook Pro in the study to my Devialet 120 in the living room, controlled by my iPad. So far very good!
The sound quality achievable with Roon is amazing indeed. From all the setups I have tested up to now, I like Roon best, by far! Smooth, airy and well resolved sound. While with the USB-connected Aurender I had to attenuate the highs by -3 dB (at least) to tame my ATCs from soundinding too bright, I set the highs back to to 0 dB. I am truly amazed how good the Devialet sounds! If Roon stays stable, I am afraid it will go into retirement
, I am not this far yet, but if things hold up, the Aurender will be switched off! There is one caveat with Roon, namely the lack of Qobuz integration. But alas, one can‘t have it all. I can still stream Qobuz via AIR and it’s own app. Maybe now that Qobuz is available in the States (or at least shortly), its integration could become fessible, who knows.
