Upgrade D-Prem?

[Kunter]

In the website there is no more a direct comparison of 200 and 250. But there is one for 400 and 800. The relevant sections are:

AMPLIFICATION TECHNOLOGY
Analog/Digital Converter component TI PCM4220, 24 bit/192 kHz -
upsampling of all content

DSP 400 MHz 4 channels 40 bit/192 kHz floating point
Single Ultra High Precision clock, low jitter
Patented ADH Core (Analog Digital Hybrid)
Patented Ultra Linear Class A
Patented "Magic Wire" Digital/Analog Converter - component TI PCM1792, 24 bit/192 kHz
Patented Switch Mode Power Supply 600W, peak 3000W


AMPLIFIER PERFORMANCE

THD+N (harmonic distortion) at full power: 0.00025%
IMD (intermodulation) SMTPE: 0.00025%
SNR (Signal-to-Noise ratio): 133 dB-A
No measurable thermal distortion
Output impedance: <0.001 Ω
Bandwidth, digital inputs @ 8 to 2 Ω load: DC–87kHz (-3dB), DC–60kHz (-1dB), DC–30kHz (-0.1dB);
analog inputs: same except 0.1Hz (-3dB)


Same for both 400 and 800. Hence should be for 200 and 250.

This tells me 200 and 250 are electronically identical. I also asked the same question to Devialet people couple of months back and this was the answer I got, albeit unofficially.

I do not have the internal pictures, but when I tested 170 at home, I could not find any difference at low to mid volumes compared to 250. When you push at high volumes, 250 had more breath, that was all.

Apart from inputs, the only different breed of the family is the 120:

120: Low Power D-Amp with 1 transformer and 4 inductors per channel

Others: High Power D-Amp with 3 transformers and 12 inductors per channel

All info from devialet.com.

[simplicate]

Hi all
First post, here goes.

I have a D-premier. Love it. Got it about 2 years ago.

I have not been following the soap opera that is the model number stew that Devialet has spawned.

Please explain in general terms the difference between 170, 200, 240, and 250 and finally "full" 250.

Thanks to all.

[Rufus McDufus]

Firmware updates increased the power output so made the model numbers a bit silly. Firstly the 110, 170 & 240 were introduced last year. In addition a double 240 dual mono could be purchased which is called 500.
After the firmware update recently the power was increased so the model numbers changed, despite the devices being no different physically than before. So -

110 is the same as 120
170 is the same as 200
240 is the same as 250
Dual mono 500 becomes 800 (!)
400 introduced - two 200s in dual mono

The model numbers merely reflect the power output in Watts.

[Jwg1749]

An admirably clear and succinct summary.

It's also worth noting that the 120, 200 and 250 all have the same switched-mode power supply. The SMPS is digitally regulated, so presumably when the power output was upgraded this year, it was just a matter of remapping the SMPS control firmware.

In fact, the 200 and 250 are, as has been pointed out previously, identical internally. (The 120 has a smaller ADH "engine".) So there's no technical reason why the 200 might not in the future be upgraded to 250W.

Quite why Devialet chose to upgrade the power output to precisely these numbers is something of a mystery. My best guess is that it's largely driven by market positioning.

Matt

[simplicate]

Thanks Rufus Mc and JWG

Great info. Clears up a murky mess.

Now can I assume that a 250 is an upgraded D-Premier and that a full 250 adds USB and Enet but subtracts HDMI and one if the Toslinks?

[Antoine]

An admirably clear and succinct summary.

It's also worth noting that the 120, 200 and 250 all have the same switched-mode power supply. The SMPS is digitally regulated, so presumably when the power output was upgraded this year, it was just a matter of remapping the SMPS control firmware.

In fact, the 200 and 250 are, as has been pointed out previously, identical internally. (The 120 has a smaller ADH "engine".) So there's no technical reason why the 200 might not in the future be upgraded to 250W.

Quite why Devialet chose to upgrade the power output to precisely these numbers is something of a mystery. My best guess is that it's largely driven by market positioning.

Matt

I think you're right Matt about the 200 vs 250 difference but there is one clear difference that also Devialet has pointed out before: the case is bigger/more heavy and as the case itself is a large heatsink it can dissipate more heat. And maybe just more enough to reliably handle the extra heat a 250 could generate where a 200's case can't.

---

Thanks Rufus Mc and JWG

Great info. Clears up a murky mess.

Now can I assume that a 250 is an upgraded D-Premier and that a full 250 adds USB and Enet but subtracts HDMI and one if the Toslinks?

That's correct although you still have two optical inputs, one of them is the regular Toslink socket and the other one is the mini-jack/mini-Toslink input (shared function with the RS-232 serial input).

[Jwg1749]

I think you're right Matt about the 200 vs 250 difference but there is one clear difference that also Devialet has pointed out before: the case is bigger/more heavy and as the case itself is a large heatsink it can dissipate more heat. And maybe just more enough to reliably handle the extra heat a 250 could generate where a 200's case can't.

That's true, although the operating temperature of my unit has gone down quite a bit since the 7.1 firmware upgrade, so there's obviously quite a bit of headroom as far as heat dissipation's concerned. I bet they could up the output of the 200 to 250 and still stay within the temperature comfort zone.

It's also worth bearing in mind that Devialet claim thermal distortion is unmeasurable, so there's no risk of a slightly higher operating temperature causing deterioration of SQ.

Matt

[Ekmanc]

I sent mine in for upgrade yesterday, can't wait to get it back

[ozthepoz]

In the website there is no more a direct comparison of 200 and 250. But there is one for 400 and 800. The relevant sections are:

AMPLIFICATION TECHNOLOGY
Analog/Digital Converter component TI PCM4220, 24 bit/192 kHz -
upsampling of all content

DSP 400 MHz 4 channels 40 bit/192 kHz floating point
Single Ultra High Precision clock, low jitter
Patented ADH Core (Analog Digital Hybrid)
Patented Ultra Linear Class A
Patented "Magic Wire" Digital/Analog Converter - component TI PCM1792, 24 bit/192 kHz
Patented Switch Mode Power Supply 600W, peak 3000W


AMPLIFIER PERFORMANCE

THD+N (harmonic distortion) at full power: 0.00025%
IMD (intermodulation) SMTPE: 0.00025%
SNR (Signal-to-Noise ratio): 133 dB-A
No measurable thermal distortion
Output impedance: <0.001 Ω
Bandwidth, digital inputs @ 8 to 2 Ω load: DC–87kHz (-3dB), DC–60kHz (-1dB), DC–30kHz (-0.1dB);
analog inputs: same except 0.1Hz (-3dB)


Same for both 400 and 800. Hence should be for 200 and 250.

This tells me 200 and 250 are electronically identical. I also asked the same question to Devialet people couple of months back and this was the answer I got, albeit unofficially.

I do not have the internal pictures, but when I tested 170 at home, I could not find any difference at low to mid volumes compared to 250. When you push at high volumes, 250 had more breath, that was all.

Apart from inputs, the only different breed of the family is the 120:

120: Low Power D-Amp with 1 transformer and 4 inductors per channel

Others: High Power D-Amp with 3 transformers and 12 inductors per channel

All info from devialet.com.

I demoed a 170 and a D-Premier about 6 months ago and there was a noticeable difference into my ML Vantage electrostatics. With the 170, I kept reaching for the volume knob to increase volume - I just wasn't getting the detail at normal listening volumes.

The D-Prem, otoh, sounded powerful, detailed and grippy all the way through.

Of course, I know the 170 is now a 200, but - trusting my ears - I'm pleased I went for the D-Premier.

---

I sent mine in for upgrade yesterday, can't wait to get it back

Let us know how you get on. Alan Sircom in hi-fi+ reckons there isn't much of a difference, but the consensus on here and on the 'wam is that it's well worth doing. Be interested in your opinion.

[f1eng]

The manufacturer's power supply specification is the same for all 3 Devialet models on the web site.
"Patented Switch Mode Power Supply 600W, peak 3000W"

I am pretty sure the difference between the D-Premier and 250 is the new pcb with new inputs, more DSP power and uprated power supply. The AHD core is the same, and I was told it is re-used if you do the update.
You lose HDMI, the ability to use an infra red remote (which was handy for integrating with a universal remote) and the Optical input 2 is now only 96/24 instead of 192/24.
Actually my D-Premiers worked fine optically at 192/24 with my A&K 240 but the 800 does not. I have reported this to Thierry and await his reply (at first he thought I must have been using input 2, that is how I found out that it had been downgraded in the update).