upgrade is back

[RebelMan]

Strange post by @RebelMan here. I started with a D-Premier and have a 250 Pro CI today. I only upgraded for improvement in sound quality and I am not "...left wanting or sorely disappointed". On the contrary. And calling the change "infinitesimal benefits to sound quality" is just plain nonsense and a discredit to the developers at Devialet. Of course they aim for better sound quality - and we benefit.

Not strange at all but perhaps unexpected?  Serendipitously, there have been incremental (sound quality) improvements with each generation but that's just it, incremental.  

In response to the question posed... "What does another three grand buy in terms of sound quality?" the honest answer is not much, virtually nothing if the rest of the "system" is not up to par.  Whether you have deep pockets or not the (prudent) course of action should be to get the "best bang for the buck" or put another way the best performance for the investment made.  That's just not going to happen by upgrading the 120 to any model, unless the room and supporting equipment (aka "system") have already been attended too.

Steering the reader to make a hefty investment upgrading the 120 for potentially little or no gain in sound quality will only lead them to disappointment, if not right away then over time.  On the other hand, taking that same investment to improve the behavior of the room and/or by stepping up the speakers will pay far greater dividends.  However, if you found the move from the D-Premier to the 250 Pro CI for sound quality worth while then perhaps what you are really saying is the D-Premier was the weak link in the chain.  So from your logic it's okay to discredit those developers.

[RebelMan]

I think @RebelMan makes a point - but I'm not sure to what end.   For me, improvement in sound quality was only a small part of the reason to upgrade to the Pro.   The primary reason was to stay current with the Devialet line... to be able to take advantage of newer firmware/OS upgrades, new functionality, etc...     I don't believe Devialet ever claimed the reason to upgrade was solely for sound quality and somehow doubt that was anyone's primary motive to do so...

Actually, you do get it.

[Greg]

Strange post by @RebelMan here. I started with a D-Premier and have a 250 Pro CI today. I only upgraded for improvement in sound quality and I am not "...left wanting or sorely disappointed". On the contrary. And calling the change "infinitesimal benefits to sound quality" is just plain nonsense and a discredit to the developers at Devialet. Of course they aim for better sound quality - and we benefit.

Not strange at all but perhaps unexpected?  Serendipitously, there have been incremental (sound quality) improvements with each generation but that's just it, incremental.  

In response to the question posed... "What does another three grand buy in terms of sound quality?" the honest answer is not much, virtually nothing if the rest of the "system" is not up to par.  Whether you have deep pockets or not the (prudent) course of action should be to get the "best bang for the buck" or put another way the best performance for the investment made.  That's just not going to happen by upgrading the 120 to any model, unless the room and supporting equipment (aka "system") have already been attended too.

Steering the reader to make a hefty investment upgrading the 120 for potentially little or no gain in sound quality will only lead them to disappointment, if not right away then over time.  On the other hand, taking that same investment to improve the behavior of the room and/or by stepping up the speakers will pay far greater dividends.  However, if you found the move from the D-Premier to the 250 Pro CI for sound quality worth while then perhaps what you are really saying is the D-Premier was the weak link in the chain.  So from your logic it's okay to discredit those developers.

Your point about partnering equipment and room set up is well made. If the OP has already addressed these issues then I would expect a significant improvement in sound quality to be experienced. I have well fettled source kit and good speakers. My room provides a balanced listening environment. When I upgraded to 220 Pro from 120, there was a big step up in sound quality as there was again when I later moved onto a 250 Pro C/I. Nothing else changed in my system or listening room. When I moved to the 250 Pro, @JonnySix bought my 220 Pro C/I from me. He reported a nice improvement to sound quality over his 120. In general, I would expect the OP to gain sound improvement if the upgrade is pursued.

[ismarketing]

Thanks all for the feedback.  I guess I'm lucky that I'm still over the moon happy with my 120.  Replacing my Revel M20's with Raidho X-1's was a significant step forward, and about the same price as the Dev upgrade.  I'm planning to sit back and enjoy the music this weekend, and I hope many of you will do the same.

[Melville]

Thanks all for the feedback.  I guess I'm lucky that I'm still over the moon happy with my 120.  Replacing my Revel M20's with Raidho X-1's was a significant step forward, and about the same price as the Dev upgrade.  I'm planning to sit back and enjoy the music this weekend, and I hope many of you will do the same.

Could you share some of your experience on Raidho X1 with 120? 
I am interested in upgrading my speaker from SF Liuto Monitor to a Raidho X1 or XT-1 instead of 140Pro CI.

Currently, I am happy with my 120 pairing with Auralic mini and still have 3.75 years warranty.
The disappointment I have is feeling like owning a EOL product.

[Saint0]

Did they also started selling the 250 Pro again? 
I thought at certain point they stopped selling it but it seems it is back on as available product...
Or I am wrong?

The 250 PRO is back on the website. The 250 PRO's chassis is much nicer than the new 140/200 design. I upgraded my original D-Premier (twice) to 250 PRO as they discontinued the D-Premier/250 PRO model. Hindsight would've waited and trade it in for the new 250 PRO for less total sunk cost....

[Confused]

For those thinking about the upgrade, it might be worth spending some time reading through this thread. There is a lot of waffle and nonsense in some posts, but some gems of information included as well.

https://devialetchat.com/Thread-Devialet...-13th-July

In summary, the sound quality improvements with the Pro are related to more power, improved power supply /power management and improved ADH. So Devialet have publically advised the technical reasons why the Pro is capable of better sound quality. It is also interesting to note that with respect to sound quality performance, Mathieu Pernot has stated that the theoretical idea would be infinite power and the lowest possible ratio of class A to class D in the ADH. The last point is a little counter-intuitive, but it was covered in the above linked thread.

So there are measurable technical reasons why the Pro might sound better, as to if the upgrade is worth the money for improved sound quality or features, I would say this is a very personal choice, there is no absolute right or wrong here. For the record, I listened to a D800 and a 1000Pro back to back, and made my decision to get the 1000Pro based purely on what it offered in terms of an incremental improvement in sound quality, I was not that interested in the features that the CI board might offer. I have not regretted this decision.

There are so many variables here, for some there will indeed be a better "bang for buck" option, say for example room treatments, although there are limits here too, some may already have optimised the room as far as practically possible, in which case spending more on electronics will yield more than spending yet more on room treatments. Some speakers are more demanding than others, so here some will benefit more than others from the improved power and power supply. Plus, an incremental increase in sound quality will matter to some people more than it does for others. So I think it is wrong to generalise too much, for some the upgrade will make sense, for others, it will not.

[K4680]

For those thinking about the upgrade, it might be worth spending some time reading through this thread.  There is a lot of waffle and nonsense in some posts, but some gems of information included as well.

https://devialetchat.com/Thread-Devialet...-13th-July

In summary, the sound quality improvements with the Pro are related to more power, improved power supply /power management and improved ADH.  So Devialet have publically advised the technical reasons why the Pro is capable of better sound quality.  It is also interesting to note that with respect to sound quality performance, Mathieu Pernot has stated that the theoretical idea would be infinite power and the lowest possible ratio of class A to class D in the ADH.  The last point is a little counter-intuitive, but it was covered in the above linked thread.

So there are measurable technical reasons why the Pro might sound better, as to if the upgrade is worth the money for improved sound quality or features, I would say this is a very personal choice, there is no absolute right or wrong here.  For the record, I listened to a D800 and a 1000Pro back to back, and made my decision to get the 1000Pro based purely on what it offered in terms of an incremental improvement in sound quality, I was not that interested in the features that the CI board might offer.  I have not regretted this decision.

There are so many variables here, for some there will indeed be a better "bang for buck" option, say for example room treatments, although there are limits here too, some may already have optimised the room as far as practically possible, in which case spending more on electronics will yield more than spending yet more on room treatments.  Some speakers are more demanding than others, so here some will benefit more than others from the improved power and power supply.  Plus, an incremental increase in sound quality will matter to some people more than it does for others.  So I think it is wrong to generalise too much, for some the upgrade will make sense, for others, it will not.

Confused: 1++++
https://www.devialet.com/en-gb/expert-pro-upgrade/

[ismarketing]

Thanks all for the feedback.  I guess I'm lucky that I'm still over the moon happy with my 120.  Replacing my Revel M20's with Raidho X-1's was a significant step forward, and about the same price as the Dev upgrade.  I'm planning to sit back and enjoy the music this weekend, and I hope many of you will do the same.

Could you share some of your experience on Raidho X1 with 120? 
I am interested in upgrading my speaker from SF Liuto Monitor to a Raidho X1 or XT-1 instead of 140Pro CI.

Currently, I am happy with my 120 pairing with Auralic mini and still have 3.75 years warranty.
The disappointment I have is feeling like owning a EOL product.

Hi Melville,  I went from a pair of Revel M20's to the X-1's and I'm totally delighted.  Paired with a Genesis 928 (only working from 50hz down), it's been a massive update.  By massive I mean bigger than when I switched to the Dev from an Anthem D1/Pass x_150.  In my room, everything is better on the x-1's, save for depth of soundstage, and that's likely because I haven't fully optimized placement.  The biggest gain had been naturalness of voices.  Transparency is so much better with the Raidho's.

The Raidho's are much more inefficient than the Revels.  -20 on the Dev was plenty loud on the Revels.  The Raidhos need -5 to fill the room (14x23).  As a result, the 120 runs warmer than it did before.  A Dev 200/250 would likely be an even better match, but the sound of the 120 is so fine, I feel no need to upgrade.  I have not heard the XT-1's, but Raidho says I can upgrade for $1,500 down the line.

As to EOL - I get it, but I place happiness ahead of currency.  My Squeezebox radio's, my mac and my Tivo were all EOL years ago, but I use them all every day, and they fill my home with great music and stories.

Not that you asked, but check out the Sonore MicroRendu or Roon via ethernet into your 120.  In my experience, both sounded (and were easier to use day to day) that the Auralic Mini.  I tried the Mini as an upgrade to an old Squuezebox Touch, and didn't hear that much improvement, and compared to Roon, I found Lightning DS, and the need to run Minimserver a real drag.

Enjoy the 120 for as long as you can/choose.

[Lincolnlad]

now 4990€ in france, it was 3490€ before

You can see all possibilities and prices and this link:

https://www.devialet.com/fr-fr/expert-pro-upgrade/

And the price for the 800 to 1000 is now £6900 - really annoyed because I bought a 250 Companion instead of upgrading thinking I would upgrade later only for it to be closed!  Now an extra £200, not happy!