My thoughts on Devialet

[bernardl]

As far as I am concerned, I keep listening to systems costing way more than my current 250 Pro CI + Wilson Benesch Vectors and nothing is reaching the sound quality I am enjoying... the last one being a high end Accuphase driving a pair of Magico S1 mkII... cute but no cigar.

I understand the frustration in the way Devialet is not sticking to the hopes they have generated with the costly Pro CI upgrades (some remaining issues with Air over ethernet for high bit rate songs - none with Raat - and the lack of integrated room correction being the main issue), but we also need to acknowledge the fact that they are still pretty much the best amps available at any price point. When you factor in the system footprint, power consumption, ease of use with Roon, design,... they remain in a planed of their own.

I really understand the desire, I should say the urge, to keep searching for better... it's what has convinced us to get onboard in the first place, but from an amp standpoint Devialet Expert owners are already at the top. There is nothing measurably or audibly better. What can be improved is mostly power quality, speakers (including speaker cables) and room treatment.

I am less convinced about the source, but it can play a role to some extend also I guess. There are way more rank A digital sources in Stereophile dream components list than there are any other components. But I digress...

As far as pricing is concerned, anyone with vague knowledge of the high end circus knows that it's the wild west. The way magazines only report about brands advertising in them is another disaster... that is hurting badly some amazing brands such as Wilson Benesch and many others. Btw the Devialet is back in Stereophile's A rank integrated amplifiers and is listed as the first in the list... the only component I am aware of that breaks the alphabetical order normally used...

Cheers,
Bernard

[daniel.avasilichioaei]

Enjoy your Gryphon!
Can you share your first impressions?

Regarding your thoughts on Devialet, I agree with you, and at the same time I disagree.
This is because, as far as I can tell, we have different experiences, perspectives and personal evaluation criteria. And this is ok / normal...

The long version of my perspective is this:

• Hardware: excellent.
  
• Sound quality: excellent.
  
• Software: it offers functionalities far above any amplifier software I've seen. Indeed, it has bugs (and lack of functionalities), as most software have. I'm lucky, because I'm a "minimalist" user, and I found workaround on all the bugs that were important to me (some with help from the Devialet team).
  
• Software updates: lately, software updates are very rare, which is frustrating. Soon it will be 14 months without any update... Still, every software upgrade I've seen from Devialet, it was a good one: in terms of functionalities, they have brought much more than the upgrades from other software.
  
• Direct relationship with the customers (technical support): I have a dual opinion. On the one hand, it can be frustrating (but I've seen this at several companies). On the other hand, I saw that the support people are doing everything they can to help. At least in my case, they have done more than I expected, and more than I have seen before at any other companies.
  
• Dealers: for me this is not a criterion for evaluating the product or the manufacturer (dealer is a third party company). Maybe because I was lucky again, and I have a very good Hi-Fi dealer, and I use it in most cases.
  

The short version of my perspective is this: 3 weeks ago, I upgraded from "Expert 210 Pro" to "Expert 440 Pro".

I wish you to enjoy your new purchase, Gryphon to be above your expectations, and - most important - enjoy your music and wonderful audition!

[markush]

That’s the point - they have a solid hardware platform but seems are not willing to realize / act upon the fact that today it’s all about the ecosystem. Which consists of hardware and software. So the next couple of months are quite important if Devialet get‘s on track or will loose more customers lacking faith, hope with it.
Maybe writing to decision makers on LinkedIn or via Twitter etc - everything which is seen publicly.

[flohmann]

Let's also always keep in mind just how few Expert units have ever sold. Didn't Devialet say that fewer than 4,000 units have been sold, total, world-wide? Try putting yourselves in their shoes, running a business, and you might have more empathy for how much they've already poured into the Expert product line.

[David A]

…

I understand the frustration in the way Devialet is not sticking to the hopes they have generated with the costly Pro CI upgrades (some remaining issues with Air over ethernet for high bit rate songs - none with Raat - and the lack of integrated room correction being the main issue), but we also need to acknowledge the fact that they are still pretty much the best amps available at any price point. 
…

I think you got one thing wrong. The issues with high bit rate songs over ethernet is with RAAT, not AIR.

[Confused]

I find the fact that this thread is being used to highlight Devialet’s streaming issues is somewhat ironic.

Yes, I know there are some issues with RAAT streaming, and missing features in the CI board, however, it is splendidly ironic that this is being highlighted in a thread about someone switching to a Gryphon Diablo, which is an amplifier with DAC, and no provision for streaming. If you just want an amp with a DAC, any Devialet Expert works nicely, software updates or not.

[griffithstrife]

Enjoy your Gryphon!
Can you share your first impressions?

Regarding your thoughts on Devialet, I agree with you, and at the same time I disagree.
This is because, as far as I can tell, we have different experiences, perspectives and personal evaluation criteria. And this is ok / normal...

The long version of my perspective is this:

• Hardware: excellent.
  
• Sound quality: excellent.
  
• Software: it offers functionalities far above any amplifier software I've seen. Indeed, it has bugs (and lack of functionalities), as most software have. I'm lucky, because I'm a "minimalist" user, and I found workaround on all the bugs that were important to me (some with help from the Devialet team).
  
• Software updates: lately, software updates are very rare, which is frustrating. Soon it will be 14 months without any update... Still, every software upgrade I've seen from Devialet, it was a good one: in terms of functionalities, they have brought much more than the upgrades from other software.
  
• Direct relationship with the customers (technical support): I have a dual opinion. On the one hand, it can be frustrating (but I've seen this at several companies). On the other hand, I saw that the support people are doing everything they can to help. At least in my case, they have done more than I expected, and more than I have seen before at any other companies.
  
• Dealers: for me this is not a criterion for evaluating the product or the manufacturer (dealer is a third party company). Maybe because I was lucky again, and I have a very good Hi-Fi dealer, and I use it in most cases.
  

The short version of my perspective is this: 3 weeks ago, I upgraded from "Expert 210 Pro" to "Expert 440 Pro".

I wish you to enjoy your new purchase, Gryphon to be above your expectations, and - most important - enjoy your music and wonderful audition!

Hey thanks, I really appreciate that, I think a lot of people on here is feeling like I attacked them. And I won't engage with that, I mean nothing I write will allow them to see I mean no animosity to anyone.

Well man look here is me being super honest, just my perspective.

When I bought my 200 I was in heaven, it was the best sound I had ever heard. It killed everything I heard at that time. 4 months later when I get the 220 it was even better.

But about 6 months after that I went to Iconic Audio here in Houston to hear some new gear. I told the owner about Devialet, he dismissed me, but I was honest that the 220 Blew away some amps he had for 20k

About 4 months after that I went back and he was now a Devialet dealer, but the disconnect was such a great vast between it made me feel even more dismissed.

I mean I bought this amp for sub 5k and now here is this dude I turned on to Devialet telling me it’s a 15k amp.

This just did not set right with me man, it made feel yucky, I just, let me try explaining it like this.

People are always welcome to hunt for a better deal, I don't feel bad for anyone for taking the first deal they got, or for someone who is bad at negotiating.

But I got into Devialet eyes wide open price wise, this dealer experience made me believe many others were not that lucky.

It's one thing to not get a discount on a new car from a dealership.

It's a whole other thing to find out the manufacturer is double dealing under the table. I mean I got nothing against the guys in Greece, I love them. But if they are allowed to sell new units at up to 80% off MSRP than so should all dealers.

But Devialet runs a crooked game in my eyes. Different rules for everyone, and everyone here keeps saying all manufactures are like this.

They are not, show me where to get Mcintosh new and half off, show me Gryphon half off that has warranty.

So after this bad taste was put into my mouth, I went soul searching. I went to a few audio stores.

I tried a few amps, Gryphon was not one of them, no dealers here. But man, D'agstino's stuff was mind blowing, and PassLabs was pretty amazing too. Vinni Rossi, I can't remember the model but it was bad ass.

But the more I heard the more I understood, the Devialet was great for its form factor and appearance. I mean please don't misunderstand, I am not saying the Devialet sound is crap.

I am saying the Devialet was not a breakthrough in audio performance, but a breakthrough in bang for the buck.

I mean even the advertising had it as that, You don't need separates, you don't need 50 cables, Devialet for the modern audiophile.

But now it was going against amps that had the same ease and much better sound for simply sacrificing some room for the foot print and height difference.

I myself chose the Gryphon when I realized, 2 drivers on one of my Sopra's had become busted. I took it to a speaker re-coning expert. Not to re-cone but to get his opinion, his opinion was that the amp I was using was under powered or something was causing clipping somewhere.

I came home ordered 2 new drivers and began experimenting, for the last few months the sound had become hollow on one side. Sedated if you will, I had now just realized the 2 drivers were busted but for the life of me I could not understand why there were no stress noises or popping.

I had to pump up the volume to minus 2 to get the speaker to distort or pop, I never listen past minus 10. This infuriated me what was occurring.

I unplugged the speakers from the Devialet moved them to my home theater Denon amp. Low volume pops and distortion immediately

Back to the Devialet just hollow again, until you crank it. I pop out the SD try it without SAM bamm pops and distortion.

Am I blaming the Devialet for my drivers? No, I blame myself for falling into verbiage. I mean the amp is called 220 for its 220 watts but who has 6ohm speakers. why not call it the 166.

But after my rage subsided, I pulled the trigger on the Gryphon Sound unheard. I loved the look of Mcintosh but thought the sound was shit. Loved the sound of D'agstino but his integrated was not announced yet, so I pulled the trigger on the Gryphon

And man Oh man I felt overwhelmed, that sound came out at me like oh I did not need this. I was shivering like I did something bad. It was just so much louder at the same decibels if that make sense.

But I was not happy, my wife said I should fix the speaker first, I admit she was right, but this was how I last heard the Devialet so I wanted to compare.

So I dropped in the new drivers, left roon and repeat and came back 2 days later. My first song was Chris Jones Going on a journey.

For the first time in my life I did not think about what anything else sounds like or what might be better. Honest to God maybe it was the amp, maybe it was not listening to a broken speaker for the first time since God knows when. Maybe the drugs or maybe the world ending all around me. It may just have been the deliriousness from not sleeping from our new born miracle from God.

But maybe it was simply not being angry with the company who makes the gear I was listening to, either way it’s been life changing.

The depth to the sound is so amazing, I remember back to when I first for got my 200. My wife and I sat in silence for a moment after listening to Death of a bachelor by Panic at the Disco. Neither one of us would speak first, but then as if some moment of clarity both occurred to us simultaneously. We Shouted "NOT MUCH AT LOW VOLUME IS SHE"

The 220 was better at low volume, but it was still lacking I remember thinking I don't to crank it to hear the details on numerous occasions.

Well with the Diablo it was breathtaking. The detail was their at every step on the volume and the bass delivered now is like a muzzle was removed.

I think a lot of that had to do with SAM, and please understand I did go back to the Devialet once the speaker was fixed to do a direct A B.  The wife and I both agreed the Gryphon was worth it, but now I am currious about D'agstino's new integrated amp but I can't see MQA being worth giving up a 100 watts per channel.

And before anyone comes to cut me. Yes the 220 is sold as a competitor to a Diablo 300 if you ask Devialet but I am willing to go further. I believe In my honest opinion from every time I heard a 1000 that the Diablo  300 eats it alive.

Everyone on here is acting like I came to gloat about my purchase, no one is grasping I was going to upgrade my amp.

No one is grasping that Devialet 220 and 440 is a marginal upgrade but yet its double the price. The 1000 and I have spent many hours with them is marginally better than the 440 but is 50k MSRP

I am simply saying Devialet as a business as a company is out of touch with reality and is believing their own BS.

[mdconnelly]

Wow, I’m glad you really like the Gryphon! We all have different tastes and priorities. My 440 Pro does for my ears what the Gryphon does for you. But, hey, there is new hardware coming to market all the time and the Expert Pros are a few years old now. Technology marches on...

[Damon]

]Hey thanks, I really appreciate that, I think a lot of people on here is feeling like I attacked them. And I won't engage with that, I mean nothing I write will allow them to see I mean no animosity to anyone.

Well man look here is me being super honest, just my perspective.
.....
I am simply saying Devialet as a business as a company is out of touch with reality and is believing their own BS.

@griffithstrife

Reading the edited post quoted above, and your original post, I think that there is another issue here; that is that your posts are difficult to read and understand. I can tell that you are trying to be conversational in your writing, but tone and inflection are very difficult to get across in writing (It happens to me all the time). But it is even more difficult without correct or helpful punctuation, and every sentence a paragraph. Seriously, how could any of us really understand your intent?

Most of us don't care if you move on from Devialet. You are not the first to do so, and you won't be the last.  None of us here doubt the Gryphon is an outstanding amplifier, either from having heard it or from reading reviews and opinions that we trust. Gryphon? Great! D'Agostino? Great, off you go. Pass? Clearly top notch. You have many happy shopping hours ahead of you, especially if you are buying audio products of that price range without hearing them.

We don't think you're gloating, but you can gloat if you want to. I've read so many posts over the years where members here are genuinely happy to hear that someone has bought some other product that thrills them. But your posts mix new and used prices over time, and add a series of bad experiences with dealers, including a 'member' here who posts only to buy and sell equipment, and who is not a Devialet dealer though he adopts that posture online. You're also presenting your opinions as absolute facts, whether about sound quality or about the positions of other members.

You are not getting push-back about Devialet's software issues, or over-the-top advertising, or lack of helpful support (sometimes) or silence on many issues. You'll get plenty of support for those complaints. We don't mind that you think the 220 to 440 upgrade is marginal. Reading the pages of posts following your original post, I think the reactions have been remarkably mild. I did not see any personal attacks, and I'm not attacking you in this post. 

If you would take a few minutes to proof read and edit your posts, we would all have a much easier time participating in this discussion. I think this is true also for those who agree with you, and support and envy you for selling the Devialet and moving to a different amplifier. There are many here who would really like to get your opinions and descriptions of the way the Gryphon sounds. Many here will hope that you remain a member of the forum and share your experiences with all your equipment purchases. You can make and keep friends here if you give us a bit of a chance.

[griffithstrife]

]Hey thanks, I really appreciate that, I think a lot of people on here is feeling like I attacked them. And I won't engage with that, I mean nothing I write will allow them to see I mean no animosity to anyone.

Well man look here is me being super honest, just my perspective.
.....
I am simply saying Devialet as a business as a company is out of touch with reality and is believing their own BS.

@griffithstrife

Reading the edited post quoted above, and your original post, I think that there is another issue here; that is that your posts are difficult to read and understand. I can tell that you are trying to be conversational in your writing, but tone and inflection are very difficult to get across in writing (It happens to me all the time). But it is even more difficult without correct or helpful punctuation, and every sentence a paragraph. Seriously, how could any of us really understand your intent?

Most of us don't care if you move on from Devialet. You are not the first to do so, and you won't be the last.  None of us here doubt the Gryphon is an outstanding amplifier, either from having heard it or from reading reviews and opinions that we trust. Gryphon? Great! D'Agostino? Great, off you go. Pass? Clearly top notch. You have many happy shopping hours ahead of you, especially if you are buying audio products of that price range without hearing them.

We don't think you're gloating, but you can gloat if you want to. I've read so many posts over the years where members here are genuinely happy to hear that someone has bought some other product that thrills them. But your posts mix new and used prices over time, and add a series of bad experiences with dealers, including a 'member' here who posts only to buy and sell equipment, and who is not a Devialet dealer though he adopts that posture online. You're also presenting your opinions as absolute facts, whether about sound quality or about the positions of other members.

You are not getting push-back about Devialet's software issues, or over-the-top advertising, or lack of helpful support (sometimes) or silence on many issues. You'll get plenty of support for those complaints. We don't mind that you think the 220 to 440 upgrade is marginal. Reading the pages of posts following your original post, I think the reactions have been remarkably mild. I did not see any personal attacks, and I'm not attacking you in this post. 

If you would take a few minutes to proof read and edit your posts, we would all have a much easier time participating in this discussion. I think this is true also for those who agree with you, and support and envy you for selling the Devialet and moving to a different amplifier. There are many here who would really like to get your opinions and descriptions of the way the Gryphon sounds. Many here will hope that you remain a member of the forum and share your experiences with all your equipment purchases. You can make and keep friends here if you give us a bit of a chance.

I apologize greatly for my subpar communications, it is not my intent.

I did not come here to anger anyone, or attack anyone I am criticizing a company. I am criticizing practices which I feel alienate far more people than intrigue others.


I am home right now with 3 children, 6 weeks, 18 months and a 12 year old. My 80 year old aunt living with us came down with a virus. The kids have been sick too not corona thank God, but still congested. I have not had much sleep, the paragraphs help me in my head.

The punctuation is, well I am uneducated, I do my best. I apologize for my sloppy writing. I do improve as I age but I will invest more time in it.

If it was more typos than anything I apologize for that too, I am delirious I can not proof read at the moment.

I love the dudes from Greece I am not attacking or disparaging them, they all good honorable men. I am simply saying Devialet hurts customers and dealers with their lack of regard.