Phantom Premier vs Phantom I

[djredeye]

Hello folks. Bumping up the question asked earlier .... on hardware/sound quality comparisons between the "old" Phantom Gold (4500 watts) and the current Phantom 1's. Anyone who has had the chance to listen or own both, thoughts and listening notes please?

I have a Phantom Gold Opera de Paris (glossy version) and am looking at whether its worth the $$$$ to replace with the newer version. Other than the glossy vs matte finish, I understand there are chip and software upgrades.

My model/SN is MX207 N26N*** .. anyone know which year this was manufactured? Because it is glossy, I am assuming that it has the older chipset. Not sure if there are differences in the drivers - my understanding is both the Gold and the Phantom 1 have the same titanium tweeter and aluminum mid/low range drivers.

Here is what I got from Devialet:
"New Version Phantoms are now equipped with a state of the art audio microprocessor that helps Improve Sound Quality. Phantom’s signal processing and amplification performance (ADH, SAM, Magic Wire, Class A, DAC) are integrated into a single 1 cm 2 SoC (System on a Chip), custom designed for Optimal Integration.
New Processor = Perform Faster + Less Battery Consuming + Better Temperature Management"

[struts]

Hello folks. Bumping up the question asked earlier .... on hardware/sound quality comparisons between the "old" Phantom Gold (4500 watts) and the current Phantom 1's. Anyone who has had the chance to listen or own both, thoughts and listening notes please?

I have a Phantom Gold Opera de Paris (glossy version) and am looking at whether its worth the $$$$ to replace with the newer version. Other than the glossy vs matte finish, I understand there are chip and software upgrades.

My model/SN is MX207 N26N*** ..  anyone know which year this was manufactured? Because it is glossy, I am assuming that it has the older chipset.  Not sure if there are differences in the drivers - my understanding is both the Gold and the Phantom 1 have the same titanium tweeter and aluminum mid/low range drivers. 

Here is what I got from Devialet:
"New Version Phantoms are now equipped with a state of the art audio microprocessor that helps Improve Sound Quality. Phantom’s signal processing and amplification performance (ADH, SAM, Magic Wire, Class A, DAC) are integrated into a single 1 cm 2 SoC (System on a Chip), custom designed for Optimal Integration.
New Processor = Perform Faster + Less Battery Consuming + Better Temperature Management"

Hi @djredeye 

1.  Your Phantom OdP was made in w/c 22nd June 2020.  It definitely* has the older chipset.  This has advantages and disadvantages.  The advantage is that it should be capable of 24/192 in Direct Optical mode, don't think the new model is.  The disadvantages are that it consumes much more power on standby and doesn't support Wi-Fi 5 (802.11ac).

2.  However, according to @streamy who has both and has compared them both subjectively and objectively, there is no appreciable sonic difference between the two models.  He may wish to comment further.  I don't believe there are any differences in the drivers.

Above is to the best of my knowledge but I am happy to be corrected if folks here know better.

* I said yours "definitely has the older chipset" because the serial number indicates it was made a full 7 months before the new models were announced (2nd Feb 2021). However I have to take back the "definitely". Rereading @Walzu's OP in this thread the model number MX207 does cast some doubt on this. Does a model number of MX207 imply the "Phantom I" hardware spec? Could Devialet have released the new spec on the quiet such a long time in advance of the public announcement? Who knows? As with most things Devialet it is a riddle wrapped in a conundrum.

[Johnnydev]

I am convinced that the new series sounds better and also uses less energy. I've had them both for a while.

[djredeye]

Hello @struts appreciate the feedback. I've reached to Devialet to confirm on the chip ... I'll keep the group updated on what they come back with. Would be great to get first hand accounts from others who have had a chance to own or listen to both. 

The conundrum of going with an all-in-one piece like the Phantom vs separates will always exist. With an integrated piece like the Phantom you don't need to worry about matching separates - amp, preamp, DAC/source, speakers, cables, etc.

The flip side is DAC/streaming technologies are evolving every year, while speaker and class A/AB amplification technologies are relatively stable.


**********

Hello folks. Bumping up the question asked earlier .... on hardware/sound quality comparisons between the "old" Phantom Gold (4500 watts) and the current Phantom 1's. Anyone who has had the chance to listen or own both, thoughts and listening notes please?

I have a Phantom Gold Opera de Paris (glossy version) and am looking at whether its worth the $$$$ to replace with the newer version. Other than the glossy vs matte finish, I understand there are chip and software upgrades.

My model/SN is MX207 N26N*** ..  anyone know which year this was manufactured? Because it is glossy, I am assuming that it has the older chipset.  Not sure if there are differences in the drivers - my understanding is both the Gold and the Phantom 1 have the same titanium tweeter and aluminum mid/low range drivers. 

Here is what I got from Devialet:
"New Version Phantoms are now equipped with a state of the art audio microprocessor that helps Improve Sound Quality. Phantom’s signal processing and amplification performance (ADH, SAM, Magic Wire, Class A, DAC) are integrated into a single 1 cm 2 SoC (System on a Chip), custom designed for Optimal Integration.
New Processor = Perform Faster + Less Battery Consuming + Better Temperature Management"

Hi @djredeye 

1.  Your Phantom OdP was made in w/c 22nd June 2020.  It definitely* has the older chipset.  This has advantages and disadvantages.  The advantage is that it should be capable of 24/192 in Direct Optical mode, don't think the new model is.  The disadvantages are that it consumes much more power on standby and doesn't support Wi-Fi 5 (802.11ac).

2.  However, according to @streamy who has both and has compared them both subjectively and objectively, there is no appreciable sonic difference between the two models.  He may wish to comment further.  I don't believe there are any differences in the drivers.

Above is to the best of my knowledge but I am happy to be corrected if folks here know better.

* I said yours "definitely has the older chipset" because the serial number indicates it was made a full 7 months before the new models were announced (2nd Feb 2021).  However I have to take back the "definitely".  Rereading @Walzu's OP in this thread the model number MX207 does cast some doubt on this.  Does a model number of MX207 imply the "Phantom I" hardware spec?  Could Devialet have released the new spec on the quiet such a long time in advance of the public announcement?  Who knows?  As with most things Devialet it is a riddle wrapped in a conundrum.

[struts]

Hello @struts appreciate the feedback. I've reached to Devialet to confirm on the chip ... I'll keep the group updated on what they come back with. Would be great to get first hand accounts from others who have had a chance to own or listen to both. 

The conundrum of going with an all-in-one piece like the Phantom vs separates will always exist. With an integrated piece like the Phantom you don't need to worry about matching separates - amp, preamp, DAC/source, speakers, cables, etc.

The flip side is DAC/streaming technologies are evolving every year, while speaker and class A/AB amplification technologies are relatively stable.

Very true. But there is a rationale. DAC (at least in the case of FPGA-based filters) and streaming devices are substantially software-based whereas amplifiers are substantially hardware-based. So the more rapidly evolving aspects of the product can be kept current more easily thru firmware updates. However this relies on regular updates, which in fairness Devialet has a pretty good track record of providing thus far, and will only ever be viable up to the point that the hardware limitations become insurmountable.

Interesting that the first major hardware revision to Phantom appeared to address some hardware elements (the CPU and peripheral elements like the Wi-Fi chipset) but not the DAC/“signal pipe”, (at least as far as we know and as far as ultimate resolution is concerned) or any mechanical elements like the drivers or the enclosure (again, to the best of our knowledge).

I would still appreciate if Devialet would be more transparent and communicative here. I don’t think their current approach of secrecy/opacity serves them well and causes a huge amount of frustration and confusion among a fairly devoted and enthusiastic customer base. For an example of what I mean just take a look at the Phantom product specifications on their website and try to divine which resolutions of digital source material are actually supported.


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[LiRnCHO]

Hello @struts appreciate the feedback. I've reached to Devialet to confirm on the chip ... I'll keep the group updated on what they come back with. Would be great to get first hand accounts from others who have had a chance to own or listen to both. 

The conundrum of going with an all-in-one piece like the Phantom vs separates will always exist. With an integrated piece like the Phantom you don't need to worry about matching separates - amp, preamp, DAC/source, speakers, cables, etc.

The flip side is DAC/streaming technologies are evolving every year, while speaker and class A/AB amplification technologies are relatively stable.

Very true.  But there is a rationale.  DAC (at least in the case of FPGA-based filters) and streaming devices are substantially software-based whereas amplifiers are substantially hardware-based.  So the more rapidly evolving aspects of the product can be kept current more easily thru firmware updates.  However this relies on regular updates, which in fairness Devialet has a pretty good track record of providing thus far, and will only ever be viable up to the point that the hardware limitations become insurmountable.

Interesting that the first major hardware revision to Phantom appeared to address some hardware elements (the CPU and peripheral elements like the Wi-Fi chipset) but not the DAC/“signal pipe”, (at least as far as we know and as far as ultimate resolution is concerned) or any mechanical elements like the drivers or the enclosure (again, to the best of our knowledge). 

I would still appreciate if Devialet would be more transparent and communicative here.  I don’t think their current approach of secrecy/opacity serves them well and causes a huge amount of frustration and confusion among a fairly devoted and enthusiastic customer base.  For an example of what I mean just take a look at the Phantom product specifications on their website and try to divine which resolutions of digital source material are actually supported.


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Hello, I've bought three opera houses 4500W. The first one is M36. It's very hot. The second and third are N48. They're not hot at all. These three are smooth surfaces. The hardware upgrading of devialet is like a mystery!

[struts]

Hello, I've bought three opera houses 4500W. The first one is M36. It's very hot. The second and third are N48. They're not hot at all. These three are smooth surfaces. The hardware upgrading of devialet is like a mystery!

Not sure I find that as strange @LiRnCHO. Your N48s we’re made w/c 23rd Nov 2020, 9 weeks before the press announcement of the new models. I find that a lot less surprising than @djredeye‘s N26, made more than half a year earlier.


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[scotthar]

I've got a pair of gold N07 's from 'new stock' ~5/2020. They run MUCH cooler with any use, compared to the silver H (something) (no airplay but has BT) and Silver L (something) (airplay and BT) series at idle.

[struts]

I've got a pair of gold N07 's  from 'new stock' ~5/2020. They run MUCH cooler with any use, compared to the silver H (something) (no airplay but has BT) and Silver L (something) (airplay and BT) series at idle.

Interesting @scotthar.  What are the last 4 digits of the serial number on those Golds?  I just stumbled over an old thread which reminded me that @Bbnsound reported that the new internals appeared in (Glossy White) Golds whose serial numbers end 4U10* (this was corroborated by a number of users).  Sorry folks, I had completely repressed this.  I checked my K28 (mid-2017) Golds whose serial numbers end 4U06 and both are MX207 models so this definitely does not signify new hardware.  So the question is when did the 4U10 units come into production?

@djredeye, @LiRnCHO please could you also check the last four digits of the serial numbers on your units and post here.  Also, if you can post the model numbers we can maybe start laying the puzzle to try to see (a) when the new ("V4?") hardware actually went into production and (b) if any correlations exist between serial numbers and model numbers.

* Whereas the new Phantom I 108dB models (at least initially) had serial numbers ending 4U13 (dark chrome) and 4U15 (matte white)

[LiRnCHO]

I've got a pair of gold N07 's  from 'new stock' ~5/2020. They run MUCH cooler with any use, compared to the silver H (something) (no airplay but has BT) and Silver L (something) (airplay and BT) series at idle.

Interesting @scotthar.  What are the last 4 digits of the serial number on those Golds?  I just stumbled over an old thread which reminded me that @Bbnsound reported that the new internals appeared in (Glossy White) Golds whose serial numbers end 4U10* (this was corroborated by a number of users).  Sorry folks, I had completely repressed this.  I checked my K28 (mid-2017) Golds whose serial numbers end 4U06 and both are MX207 models so this definitely does not signify new hardware.  So the question is when did the 4U10 units come into production?

@djredeye, @LiRnCHO please could you also check the last four digits of the serial numbers on your units and post here.  Also, if you can post the model numbers we can maybe start laying the puzzle to try to see (a) when the new ("V4?") hardware actually went into production and (b) if any correlations exist between serial numbers and model numbers.

* Whereas the new Phantom I 108dB models (at least initially) had serial numbers ending 4U13 (dark chrome) and 4U15 (matte white)

The last four digits form N48 is 4U11