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Trolling
#1
I have a 250 and I am not happy. I am not happy not because it isn't a good product with great potential, but because of the company behind it. Here are the facts and I will let you, owners and potential buyers, make your own judgement.

I wanted a one box solution coming from a high end Naim system with all the bells and whistles. I was led to believe that this little box of tricks would:

1. have plenty of power but, if needed, I could daisy chain several to get more power. Also at the time of my purchase the 250 would be the only beast in the range to do it this being the main selling point for it.

2. Air as a streamer was not great but everyone hoped that at some point the company would add UPnP support.

3. checking the D-Premier's manual I thought my 250 would have an IR sensor that could be activated in the Configurator, allowing me to integrate the Devialet with a host of other hardware in my listening room

4. It was strongly suggested that some sort of room correction was in the works and would become available sooner rather than later

5. It was also suggested by the manufacturer that the product would be largely insensitive to expensive cables and snake oils.

All of the above would have made it the perfect machine for my needs.

Now here's the reality, after more than a year of ownership:

1. Soon after my purchase the 250 was largely abandoned as a standalone product, their cheaper line received a hefty power boost bringing it more or less in line with my twice as expensive 250 and the 170 received the multiple box treatment as well making it a much better buy at 400W against my one box 250.

It is now time to ask how are these power ratings determined, how did the little 170 jump to 200W and how comes the daisy chained 200 does indeed deliver exactly twice as much power while my 250 on it's own can produce less than a third of the power of its conjoined twins?

It is also the time to confess that, as an owner of a 250, I feel cheated and my investment poorly supported by Devialet who doesn't even manufacture the 250 on it's own anymore.

2. In my communication with the company I was recommended streaming music directly from a Synology NAS using their own app as a control point. I was also given the speech about how great Air and how rubbish UPnP but no answer to the simple question: are they going to support UPnP in the future?

Again, I feel it is time to put things straight. I am the paying customer and I make development of this product possible. I pay their team of engineers and whatever facilities they have.

I see half of this forum talking, on and on and on, about the same banana: streaming and streaming alternatives to the fairly average Air. I see all sorts of recommendations, 5000£ streamers, AES cables costing in the range of 3000£.

All this is great stuff but how about we, owners of Devialet products, unite and lobby for UPnP? Isn't it absurd to put all this time, effort and energy into something that is probably perfectly doable with our shiny boxes alone?

It might not sound as good as Air, Devialet might not like it but I want it and I demand it from the company who sold me the hardware.

I don't know about you guys but in my job one has to prioritise. I am not all that interested in DSD which is the next big rumoured update. I couldn't care less about SAM (with my Duettes it adds a bit of this and that but it's not a life changing experience) but I find the daily pain of having to use a computer or alternative hardware for something that my shiny box could and should do on its own very annoying.

Why invest resources in some odd project which would benefit very few (SAM), when virtually all your customers and every single pro review I have read mention UPnP as a significant omission, one which would hopefully be addressed in a future firmware?! And why this stubborn refusal to talk about it?

As a paying customer I expect a straight answer from the company. Will UPnP ever be implemented? Yes or no because depending on the answer I might consider alternatives.

3. Why was the IR sensor sacked from the 240? The company is a bit inconsistent here. Either Devialet manufactures for monkeys with more money than sense (and then what is the point of a RS232 interface since all the monkey can do is hit play on a computer in his / her iTunes library) or they address a larger crowd in which case IR would make perfect sense. The remote control is quite innovative but frankly it's an accident waiting to happen and believe me, if you ever drop it on your foot, you would end up in A&E!

The omission is hidden in menus within menu's in their FAQ section and frankly, if I would have known about it, I probably wouldn't have bothered with their product at all because for me good sound and convenience is king.

Yes, RS232 is an advanced interface doing a lot more than an IR sensor but it requires hardware and programming so we collide again with the one box solution concept. How is this a unifying one box solution if one needs a streamer, a RS232 interface and various other voodoo (Entreq, power regenerators etc) products to make it work as intended?

4 I am underwhelmed by SAM. I want Trinnov, Dirac and I am happy to pay the licence for it as long as it is implemented without the discomfort of additional hardware. The company has to make up their mind once more: are they manufacturing hardware for monkeys or for discerning audiophiles?

Even a monkey can perform the Audyssey setup on a multichannel receiver so their argument is risible. The dealer can do it if the monkey is not capable of plugging a microphone and running a setup. But if it can be done there is no excuse for not doing it. And this should be another priority for the company because it would benefit all owners and potential buyers and it would be a big selling point compared to alternative products.

5. Devialet is very transparent to all sorts of cables and snake oils. In a way it is a good thing because it allows a certain amount of experimenting but the financial implications are unfortunate. I already have a power regenerator which, indeed makes a significant difference, a 3000£ speaker cable which yes, makes a clear difference and then there is Entreq and all sorts of other "little" (thousand pounds little) tricks and tweaks. Buyers be aware!

So to sum this good trolling up Devialet could be the best hifi product of its generation, a truly revolutionary, amazing, out of this world product. But it fails short, largely thanks to an arrogant support team who ignores us, the paying customers. They are holding back a great hardware platform and they are doing it so well that I am seriously considering selling mine.

I personally don't have the time or energy to test 15 streamers with 25 digital cables and 50 power cables plugged into 75 various voodoo power and grounding boxes. Linn is there, Naim is there, they have established businesses and one box solutions and they do UPnP out of the box. They might not look as good, thy might not sound as good, but they deliver a no fuss performance without added hardware, cables, software, tweaking. And they respect their customers, the lineup is clear, once you invest in one of their high end offerings you know that you will get your money's worth and you will not see a cheaper, better product within 6 months of ownership.

Oh yes, and they have official forums where they answer questions and are quite open about their plans and future software developments.
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#2
I'm with you on a lot of this! People buy Devialet for many reasons. Some are downsizing from bigger more expensive solutions and one reason for the simplification is to enable more money to be spent on speakers, cables etc. I did this and I also wanted to release money from my more expensive system before it plummeted in value as most hifi inevitably does. I also wanted to simplify with an integrated solution from an electrical standpoint too - I had issues with the domestic mains and one route to cracking the problems was to cut the box count. I was slightly disappointed, but not overly surprised that mains cables and interconnects had a large effect on SQ. Fortunately speaker cables don't have such a large effect as with most other gear.

Most though are just looking for a great all-in-one solution and Devialet don't seem to be helping the cause by not embracing technologies like UPnP that they've hinted at for long while now. I detest iTunes lately because it's terrible if you have a lot of music, in my case over 2500 albums, and I just detest it anyway!
My personal upgrade path has always been to a 250 (I don't want more boxes, cables etc.) but the option is not terribly attractive now - just 50W more for around £6k?
---
Nord One SE NC500, Mytek Brooklyn, Melco N1A, Rega RP6/Exact, Raidho C-1.1, Shunyata Denali and cables.
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#3
Hi Gurux,

In some ways you might be right; UPnP support seems to be on the top of most people's wish list and getting rid of the IR sensor wan't a smart move either. I can't talk about cables as I haven't looked into that yet. Where I think you (and some others on other fora (is that the right plural for forum? just guessing) are missing the point is the increased possibilities of the next generation Devialets / upgrades. Every manufacturer aims to improve their products and that's what we as customer expect. From the manufacturers point of view; When they improve on their older product they have a better chance of selling their latest. With Devialet though, there's the difference that they can improve on their existing products and that changes the whole game. Those who bought a 250 feel cheated (except those who now own 800s) and those who bought a 200 (me included) are over the moon with the extra 30Watt.

Also, the improvements you get from Devialet are much larger than any company has ever produced. That takes a bit of getting used to.
You could also say that it is slack of most other manufacturers out there that they don't give ANY improvements on their products as soon as they leave the shop floor. You want the latest? You have to pay for it.

I sincerely hope for you and those who were expecting UPnp and room correction that it is just a matter of time before they come out. I'm sure it is. After all, they want 'everyone to own' a Devialet and the only way to do that is to stay ahead of the game.

If I were you I wouldn't sell my 250 just yet. I would rather you come back to this forum in due time to express your delight with the upgrade you've been waiting for so long and just received than to tell us you're angry again because the upgrade came out just after you sold your 250 and now you want it back...

If it makes you feel any better; I own a Golf GTI Mk6. The Mk7 is cheaper, faster, lighter, uses less fuel and has more features etc. That's just the marry go round of big business. On the plus side, If I want to go faster, I can! Just buy a Mk7. So buy another 250, get bigger speakers and be happy!

Cheers,

Pim
                                                    Lifetime Roon, Mac mini, int. SSD, ext. HDD, tv as monitor, key board and track pad on bean bag as remote,Devialet 200, Od'A #097, Blue jeans speaker cable,                                     
                                                                                                                                                                            Dynaudio C1 MkII.
                                                                                                                                                                              Jim Smith's GBS.
                                                                                                                                                                        Northern NSW Australia.
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#4
I too agree with some of what's written above. I too bought a 240 before the 200 / 400 arrived. However, before I bought the Devialet, I had auditioned very many possible alternatives, and to my ears, the Devialet offered the best sound quality for the money. That's why I chose the Devialet, it had the best sound quality for the cash, every other consideration I ignored. Indeed, looking at alternatives including power amps, DACs, streamers, pre amps, phono stage, to get roughly the same sound quality was looking very expensive. It should also be noted that the 250's very expensive case is not just for looks, it offers much superior cooling properties, offering rapid cooling of transient peaks. Depending on speaker type / demands, a 250 can sound much better than a 200. Obviously, if a 400 would provide the "sweet spot" option, then the arrival of the 400 would be annoying, but at least the 250 does offer the option of an 800 upgrade, which will still be an option in a few years’ time when second hand 250s are available at very affordable prices.
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#5
Well, just to throw the cat amongst the pigeons, I am one customer who has never been interested by UPnP. I tried a Linn Klimax DS about 4 years ago and hated everything about using it, so that put me off. One of the great attractions of the Devialet to me, and one of the reasons I bought it, is that it did not work like that.

I don't believe active room correction is adequately effective for more than 1 listener with fewer than 5 speakers around the room, so the absence of room correction is engineering logic rather than marketing expediency, IMO.
There are internet reports about cable sensitivity. I have used 3 different speaker cables and not noticed a problem with any of them.
My mains leads are the ones I was using with my old amps when I changed to Devialet.

After 4 years playing around with streaming I find no benefit for a classical music listener and am only expanding the library on my computer with pop music. I do still stream the the 1000 or so CDs I had already ripped for listening to in airports/planes to the Devialet, just don't add many more. Of all the streaming stuff I have used I prefer iTunes, which, as a travelling music lover, I used from its launch so it could be familiarity.

OTOH I have mainly returned to LPs and CDs.

I regret the loss of the IR remote and HDMI from my D-Premier when I had it updated. In fact the only regret I have had with the Devialet has been updating from 2 D-Premiers to a "800". I don't use a speaker which will ever have a SAM file so I did not need the extra DSP. I wish I hadn't wasted my money.

Overal, though, I am a very satisfied customer. It does today everything I was expecting from it when I bought my first one (or it would if I hadn't gone and updated. Duh!)
Devialet Original d'Atelier 44 Core, Job Pre/225, Goldmund PH2, Goldmund Reference/T3f /Ortofon A90, Goldmund Mimesis 36+ & Chord Blu, iMac/Air, Lynx Theta, Tune Audio Anima, Goldmund Epilog 1&2, REL Studio. Dialog, Silver Phantoms, Branch stands, copper cables (mainly).
Oxfordshire

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#6
I agree with f1eng on this. Since I'm using a Mac (mini/book pro) as source, with whatever application I want to, I don't need UPnP in my D200. I like having the freedom of applications and protocols. I'd much rather Devialet spend their time making sure AIR is as robust as possible.
After streaming I mainly listen to vinyl, and the phono stage in the D200 is fantastic. The amp itself is fantastic. It's highly configurable and as such extremely versatile. The regular updates from Devialet always add new features and possibilities, so UPnP may yet be implemented. I can live without UPnP in the mean time.

Quote:Again, I feel it is time to put things straight. I am the paying customer and I make development of this product possible. I pay their team of engineers and whatever facilities they have.
I also paid Devialet a fair sum, and I say they needn't bother with UPnP. How do we get out of this impasse?
If Devialet would let the customers decide what they should do, they'd file for bankruptcy next month.
Devialet 200 <> Bowers & Wilkins 805 Diamond <> Aurender N100 <> Clearaudio Concept MC <> Audioquest Rocket 44/Coffee USB

The Netherlands
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#7
But wouldn't having UPnP in addition to AIR give you more freedom? Wink
---
Nord One SE NC500, Mytek Brooklyn, Melco N1A, Rega RP6/Exact, Raidho C-1.1, Shunyata Denali and cables.
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#8
What exactly would the benefit of UPnP be? AIR works fine for me, and I can't realy see what benefit UPnP would offer? (I might be wrong, it wouldn't be the first time that I've missed the point with computer related stuff)
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#9
(18-Sep-2014, 18:57)Confused Wrote: What exactly would the benefit of UPnP be? AIR works fine for me, and I can't realy see what benefit UPnP would offer? (I might be wrong, it wouldn't be the first time that I've missed the point with computer related stuff)

I must admit that I can't see a lot of value in adding UPnP to the Devlalet - AIR works fine for me. I suppose it would open up the possibility of using cheap UPnP servers (mainly NAS, I guess) but Devialet would probably decide to develop their own control app which (like most others) would have to go through multiple releases until it worked properly causing much grief and pain. I used a NAS running Minimserver with my Naim system and it worked fine although the n-stream control app wasnt great it was reasonably robust.

Now, if Devialet added tight integration with streaming services like Qobuz, WiMP (TIDAL), Spotify etc, that would be very interesting.
IMac macOS 10.15.3 (no link to Devialet Sad ) / MacBook Pro Retina OS X 10.14.4 / Linn LP12 / Devialet 200 Wilson Benesch Discovery. 
Qobuz Desktop Latest Version / Audirvana 3.2.18 / Audirvana Remote / iTunes 12.9 / AIR 3.0.4 / Wi-Fi / FW 8.1.0 / SAM 50%
Cambridge, UK (Updated 27th February, 2020)
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#10
No need for uPnP, SAM, HDMI, RS-232 or IR here. I really can't see any benefits for those options in my usage. As always when you try to make everyone happy nobody will be happy. I do however require/demand a rock solid AIR application (I find great steps have been made here and I have even helped Devialet doing this being their first customer, together with 3 or 4 others, doing actual closed beta testing) and would like to get room correction but wondering if it'll even come and in what form.

I find Devialet -very- unreliable as well in the way they're introducing and marketing new models and giving away features that used to be exclusive to higher models. I used to own the D-Premier and Devialet making available new models that sounded equal or even better (as they wrote themselves) but cost considerably less really made me and other owners very angry (see their Facebook page for example). And in a way I was later also forced to upgrade it to 240/250 specs if I wanted to benefit from all future upgrades. But on the other hand if they wouldn't have made the upgrade option available I would have been much more upset. Then after the introduction of the 110/170/240, only the 240 would allow daisy-chaining. Not anymore, this became possible for the 200 model as well. The 110 didn't have an option for a sub-/pre-out but that today is also an option. Great for the people that receive/can have the options, not so much for the people that bought the more expensive model because they specifically needed/wanted those options and paid a lot for it.

I've never come across a device (in real life or reading about one) that wasn't sensitive to cables/power conditioning etc. I found it very arrogant of Devialet to say their devices wouldn't benefit as well and never believed a word they said regarding this but am not upset about it.
PS Audio P3, Shunyata ΞTRON Alpha Digital and HC/Furutech power cables, Paul Hynes SR7EHD-MR4, DIY Roon Server & Roon Endpoint running AudioLinux Headless, Phasure Lush^2 USB cable, Audioquest Diamond RJ/E ethernet, Uptone Audio etherREGEN, Mutec MC-3+ USB, Shunyata ΞTRON Anaconda Digital XLR AES/EBU, Devialet Expert 250 Pro CI, Nordost Tyr Reference LS cables, Von Schweikert VR-5 SE Anniversary Edition, Anti-Mode Dual Core 2.0, JL Audio Fathom F112. More detail here.

The Netherlands
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