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upgrade is back
I purchased my D400 (200-Master & 200-Companion) in March 2016. I bought them from a dealer in Frankfurt & imported them to Sierra Leone (West Africa) where I was working & living. Unfortunately in West Africa, UPS or FedEx do not function hence I couldn't take the advantage of Devialet's upgrade programs. Since early 2018, I have moved to the US and the upgrade program has once opened up. For my D400 to become 440-PRO, it would cost me $ 7,995. 

My long-term plans regarding source playback would be to have a Roon Nucleus Server, feeding a dCS Network Bridge endpoint via Ethernet with a Mutec REF-10 clock. The dCS Network Bridge would feed the Devialet via AES/EBU digital. 

Question - 1 
Spending $ 8,000 for my D400 to get to 440-PRO and then, spend [Roon Nucleus + dCS network bridge + Mutec REF-10 + cables], in your humble opinion ... is it worth it ?  OR simply get the [Roon Nucleus + dCS Network Bridge + Mutec REF-10 + cables] and forget about the Devialet upgrade ?

Question - 2
To what extent is the D400 to 440-PRO upgrade justifiable and how much of a sonic difference is there ?  I mean does it justify spending $ 8,000 ?

Folks, I am seeking some serious & sincere help as Devialet's $ 8,000 is just driving me nuts. 

Looking fwd to some recommendations ... Thank You !
Roon Nucleus w/ Hypsos PSU & AQ Tornado + Roon RAAT  >  AQ Diamond ETH > etherREGEN using SFP + Hypsos PSU | CEC TL-5 CD Transport + AQ Z3 + 3 x Orea Indigo > AQ Diamond AES/EBU 
Devialet 440-Pro CI >  AQ Wel Sig  RCA-XLR | 6 x Orea Bronze, 2 x Synergistic Research Atmosphere PC | B&W 802 D3 {Bi-wired}  >  AQ WEL Signature (Biwire)
REL G1-Mk2 pair | PS Audio PP 12 + AQ NRG-1000 | Puritan GroundMaster + RouteMaster | SAM DISABLED - DPM OFF - Northern Virginia - US
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(08-Aug-2018, 13:54)Stino Wrote:
(08-Aug-2018, 12:06)MrJellyLord Wrote: When I went to buy my Devialet, I could not hear any substantial difference between the 120 and 200 amp.
Later, we compared the 120 with the new 220pro, but could not hear any substantial differences there either (some preferred the 120).
So rebelman confirms my own (limited) listening experiences.

I had a very different experience. When I went for the second time to my dealer listening to a 220 Pro I felt dissatisfied. The bass definition was not as clear as before. After listening carefully to my test track twice I had to call my dealer back in the listening room. I told him something was wrong with the system. What happened? By accident he installed the 120 in the room. Once swapped with the 220 Pro I listened again, confirmed the nice baseline, and bought it on the spot!

Maybe the rest of the music chain (source, speaker, room) did not allow you to hear the sonical benefits of the 220 Pro. But I can assure you they are there when conditions are good and with the right track.

Happy listening.

Yes, possibly. We compared them at my place, listening to jazz and classical on vinyl exclusively, because I was mainly interested in the advanced phono of the 200/220pro.
Devialet 120 - Wilson Sophia - Technics SL-1000 - Rega Apollo - Chromecast
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No recommendations, just questions.

IF you get the 440 Pro upgrade and the Roon Nucleus server, why not just connect the 440 Pro to your network and use it's ethernet input? Why go for a network bridge  and then recheck the rendered signal when you can use the 440 Pro as a renderer? And remember, while you would be using Roon's implementation of AIR at present, Devialet has advised that the Pro CI models are expected to become Roon Ready by the end of this year. If you're going to ask whether to "simply get the [Roon Nucleus + dCS Network Bridge + Mutec REF-10 + cables] and forget about the Devialet upgrade ?" I think you also need to ask whether it would be better to "simply get" the Devialet upgrade, Roon Nucleus, and any ethernet cables you want to get to go with that.

I think you'll get a sonic improvement with either of those 2 options but I don't know how those improvements will stack up against each other. I don't know which will provide the biggest benefit and I also don't know if the combined benefit of both of those options is going to be equal to the sum of the benefits each provides individually but I'm guessing that the value for money for each of the partial options and for the full combination of everything is going to be different and I have no idea which option will provide the best value for money given that the sonic differences of the Devialet upgrade vs the dCS + Mutec are likely to be different and that one of those upgrades may play more to your personal tastes than the other.

So, as I said, no recommendations here but I hope I've at least given you another option to consider and a bit more to think about if you're having doubts about the total cost of your current long term plan.
Roon Nucleus+, Devilalet Expert 140 Pro CI, Focal Sopra 2, PS Audio P12, Keces P8 LPS, Uptone Audio EtherREGEN with optical fibre link to my router, Shunyata Alpha NR and Sigma NR power cables, Shunyata Sigma ethernet cables, Shunyata Alpha V2 speaker cables, Grand Prix Audio Monaco rack, RealTRAPS acoustic treatment.

Brisbane, Qld, Australia
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(09-Aug-2018, 08:28)audio_engr Wrote: I purchased my D400 (200-Master & 200-Companion) in March 2016. I bought them from a dealer in Frankfurt & imported them to Sierra Leone (West Africa) where I was working & living. Unfortunately in West Africa, UPS or FedEx do not function hence I couldn't take the advantage of Devialet's upgrade programs. Since early 2018, I have moved to the US and the upgrade program has once opened up. For my D400 to become 440-PRO, it would cost me $ 7,995. 

My long-term plans regarding source playback would be to have a Roon Nucleus Server, feeding a dCS Network Bridge endpoint via Ethernet with a Mutec REF-10 clock. The dCS Network Bridge would feed the Devialet via AES/EBU digital. 

Question - 1 
Spending $ 8,000 for my D400 to get to 440-PRO and then, spend [Roon Nucleus + dCS network bridge + Mutec REF-10 + cables], in your humble opinion ... is it worth it ?  OR simply get the [Roon Nucleus + dCS Network Bridge + Mutec REF-10 + cables] and forget about the Devialet upgrade ?

Question - 2
To what extent is the D400 to 440-PRO upgrade justifiable and how much of a sonic difference is there ?  I mean does it justify spending $ 8,000 ?

Folks, I am seeking some serious & sincere help as Devialet's $ 8,000 is just driving me nuts. 

Looking fwd to some recommendations ... Thank You !
If I had money to burn, I might buy a Roon Nucleus - which I don’t.   Instead I bought a well specified desktop tower, directly connected to the router and my music is stored on an external hard drive connected to the computer purely as a Roon server.  This is in a different room from my main music set up.  I connect my Devialet by Ethernet over powerlines.  I leave the computer on.  Occasionally I need to log on to for Windows software updates.  I load and/or amend music files over the network.    This is less than a third of the cost of the Roon Nucleus.

In other words - an upgrade to 440, is likely to deliver noticeable benefits in terms of both sound quality.  A Roon Nucleus is a nice to have, but unlikely to deliver the same SQ improvements.
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yes, the Pro CI update will give you more SQ benefits than your planned very expensive front-end. I also have a REF 10 which is now playing in my headphone setup (my new ifi iDSD pro can directly accept a 10Mhz clock) as Roon/AIR delivers better SQ.
My optimized Roon PC is connected via Ethernet incl. an AQVox switch SE. That is all I will ever need as front end. Compared to all Mutec boxes via AES this is simply better.
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If you're prioritizing best sound quality to budget, my 2 cents worth is go with the 440 Pro first. The Nucleus is unlikely to offer any sound quality benefits but would make managing Roon a bit easier. Then again, running Roon on my 6 year old Win 10 desktop is a breeze and works perfectly. If the computer has to be in your listening room, an i5 NUC would also work well.

I have no experience with the dCS network bridge + Mutec REF-10, but have to wonder how much more it brings to the party over just using Roon/AIR via ethernet. The days of frustration with using AIR are long gone (as long as you're using Roon AIR and not Devialet AIR). It might be worth giving that a try before investing in the dCS and Mutec.

To my ears (I also started with a 200), the step-up to the Pro was a very nice sonic improvement and well worth the investment.
Devialet 440 Pro (two 220s)- Oracle CD transport - Kuzma Stabi S/Stogi S turntable - Von Schweikert VR-35 speakers - JPS SC3 SCs - PI Audio power conditioning -
Triode Wire Labs ICs and PCs - Roon on NUC 8i7beh running ROCK
Durham, NC USA
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@audio_engr - First to say that there are some good points above from @David A @Will @Vivialet, I pretty much agree with what has been posted already.

What I can add is that when I had my D800, it was fairly easy to try a decent front end, and get a nice hike in sound quality.  For example, I was running a microRendu / Mutec MC3+USB with the D800 and this I much preferred to AIR.  When I moved to the 1000Pro, the big surprise was just how well AIR performs.  When trying a comparison of the mR / MC3+USB versus AIR on the Pro, the result was that there is very little difference.  I have not yet tried the Network Bridge, so I cannot comment on that, but I have been running the SOtM "bundle", with the Mutec MC3+USB and REF10, and this just edges away from AIR.

So.....   If it was my money, I would go for the Pro upgrade and run this with AIR, you might find this is all you desire.  Plus, you are then in the latest Devialet "eco system", so you might benefit from future updates, such as Roon RAAT, as has already been mentioned, and anything else that might arrive in the future.  One point about the Network Bridge, it does not have a 10MHz reference clock input, so you cannot connect the REF10 direct to the Network Bridge, so you would need something like the Mutec MC3+USB to generate the required word clock signals.  So you need to add the cost of an MC3+USB, plus the cost of some decent cables.  So why not try the Pro with Roon AIR, you might find this is all you need and desire, you could always add something like the Network Bridge later if you really feel the need.  Mindful that AIR with the Pro sounds as good as the Pro with a reasonably good front end, a decent front end on the Expert is unlikely to top it for ultimate sound quality.

The big question remains, is the sound quality hike that the Pro offers worth $8000?  I cannot answer this, other than to suggest you look at the links in post #14 of this thread, or better still borrow one to try.  (I appreciate this might be difficult in your location)  Although I do have a gut feeling that your 802 D3's are easily of standard that would benefit nicely from the Pro's goodness.  Of course, you could spend $8000 on gambling and fine wines, or whatever else takes your fancy.

As a last point, it is wrong to buy something on the promise of future features, but I think the Pro makes a case for itself as it stands now.  So if Devialet surprise us and something good does arrive as an upgrade, it is a simple bonus.

EDIT: My post crossed with @mdconnelly 's, but it looks like we are saying something very similar.
1000 Pro - KEF Blade - iFi Zen Stream - Mutec REF10 - MC3+USB - Pro-Ject Signature 12
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(09-Aug-2018, 12:58)mdconnelly Wrote: If you're prioritizing best sound quality to budget, my 2 cents worth is go with the 440 Pro first.    The Nucleus is unlikely to offer any sound quality benefits but would make managing Roon a bit easier.    Then again, running Roon on my 6 year old Win 10 desktop is a breeze and works perfectly.    If the computer has to be in your listening room, an i5 NUC would also work well.

I have no experience with the dCS network bridge + Mutec REF-10, but have to wonder how much more it brings to the party over just using Roon/AIR via ethernet.    The days of frustration with using AIR are long gone (as long as you're using Roon AIR and not Devialet AIR).   It might be worth giving that a try before investing in the dCS and Mutec.

To my ears (I also started with a 200), the step-up to the Pro was a very nice sonic improvement and well worth the investment.

Hi,
As I'm a recent convert to Roon would you be good enough to explain "(as long as you're using Roon AIR and not Devialet Air)". I've noticed this reference previously elsewhere but just don't follow what it means. When I activated/setup my Roon account I don't recall being offered any choice of Roon or Devialet AIR so an explanation of setup/perceived differences would be very much appreciated.

Cheers.....Dave
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Before Roon Labs was so kind as to integrate the ability to stream to AIR from Roon, the only way to stream via AIR was a sound driver app called Devialet AIR that you installed on the PC. It allowed you to run Roon or any other PC based music streaming app to your Devialet. But, it had numerous and nasty bugs for a long time. I understand the most recent version works reasonably well and is certainly still available from the Devialet site for download. But if you're using Roon, you have no need to bother with it. For me, Roon AIR has worked perfectly from day one.

Thank you, Roon Labs, for that! It was huge win for Devialet owners.
Devialet 440 Pro (two 220s)- Oracle CD transport - Kuzma Stabi S/Stogi S turntable - Von Schweikert VR-35 speakers - JPS SC3 SCs - PI Audio power conditioning -
Triode Wire Labs ICs and PCs - Roon on NUC 8i7beh running ROCK
Durham, NC USA
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Thanks for that!

Sorry if I'm a bit slow (well I am actually), the very fact that I'm using Roon means that I'm using Roon AIR by default?

Cheers....Dave
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