Devialet Chat

(28-Jul-2016, 22:30)Confused Wrote: [ -> ]So there you have it folks.....   Infinite power is what you want!

No, infinite power is WATT you want... 

(28-Jul-2016, 07:39)thumb5 Wrote: [ -> ]

(27-Jul-2016, 22:26)RebelMan Wrote: [ -> ]That's what comes with the territory of a new startup and the risks of early adoption.  Devialet started with the resources they needed to produce the volumes they could manage at the time.  When newer, better efficiencies where introduced dropping the costs from the heavens demand exploded.  They were ill equipped to handle the increased volume and unfortunately it would not have been prudent to staff up prior to knowing what the demand would be.  

As for other products, like the Phantom, in the pipeline distracting their focus from core products improvements and support, I can assure you those plans were long in the making and the apparent fall from grace (as a result) as seen by some early adopters is merely coincidental.  Perhaps if customers could put themselves in Devialet's shoes there would be more understanding.  I'm not saying they don't have problems to fix they do.  I am saying if you are gonna make a commitment (early on) then be committed to the whole process.  It's okay to air experiences and frustrations when they occur.  It's not okay to make it personal (bashing) in a public forum.

While I admire your forgiving attitude, it still surprises me.  The mitigating factors you mentioned:

• demand exploded
  
• other products...distracting their focus
  
• ill equipped to handle the increased volume
  

all reflect poor business planning and market assessment.  It's a problem that many companies face, and good companies deal with successfully.

I can easily "put myself in Devialet's shoes" as I run a privately-owned services business.  I know first hand what it feels like to face those problems, and I know they are not easy to solve.  I am equally critical when we make the wrong decisions which might disappoint customers, although we have been fortunate and/or careful enough not to get it badly wrong.

As a customer, the commitment I made was to buy a product on good faith based on claims made by the manufacturer.  That is the start and end of it, it's a simple enough transaction; I don't understand what is the "whole process" you mentioned and why as a customer -- rather than a shareholder, for example -- I should be committed to that as well.

My point is that buying a product does not require me to be a fan of the company that made and sold the product from that point onwards.  If they behave well, I'll praise them (and have done on this forum); if not, it seems reasonable to point out where they're going wrong.

Part of the "behaving well" side is how they deal with existing customers when the product they bought doesn't perform as advertised.  That is an opportunity for them to shine, which they can choose to take or leave.  Another is whether they stick to what they say when they make public statements about what they're going to do.  These are the areas where I think Devialet have not performed very well.

Whether one decides to "forgive and forget" over this sort of thing is personal and I suppose depends very much on circumstances: one's attitude to risk, whether it's a significant financial outlay, etc.  As I said, I do admire your willingness to forgive, but personally while realising that perfection can't be achieved I do expect better from the companies I buy from and do not enjoy the feeling of being taken for a ride.

Just to be clear, I think the 400 sounds great and in most respects I am very pleased with it.  I am also impressed that Devialet have continued to make innovations to the design of the Expert series, and to make them available to existing owners.  Leaving aside any discussions over the cost of the upgrade, the fact that it is even possible is something to applaud and be excited about.

To come back to the topic of the thread, I would like to hear a 440 Pro back-to-back against my 400 and decide on that basis alone whether to go ahead with the upgrade.  At the moment my gut feeling is not to throw more money in Devialet's direction but if the upgrade gives a really clear improvement in sound quality I might be tempted.  Especially as I see from another thread that it renews the five-year warranty.

I will certainly not be upgrading just on the promise of an as-yet undefined streamer board scheduled to arrive in a year or so.  Given Devialet's past performance that seems to me to be an extremely risky proposition.  If/when the streamer board materialises and its capabilities are known, I'd consider it on its merits then.

The best way to respond is through example.  

Back in the day when e-commerce was in its infancy I was an early adopter.  The vast majority of people shunned the idea yet I embraced it.  There were many startups to choose from and so I did.  Some did well others not so well.  Ever hear of Amazon Books?  They were one of the worst.  If something could go wrong it did.  It didn't matter, prices were not very competitive, orders were not fulfilled correctly, orders took longer than promise to deliver, orders were damaged do to neglect in packaging, customer service was difficult to reach and complaints that often seemed to go unanswered.  This went on for YEARS!  

So I kept my other goto online stores, that were much better, in my hip pocket, but I never gave up on Amazon.  Eventually, about a decade later, they improved and about another five years or so after that they became my number one gotta have it stop for online shopping.  Everything got substantially better in fact they have become nearly flawless in their services.   So what about the  others that I kept handy?  Well some of them continued on doing what they did and some of them, unfortunately (more like surprisingly) took a fall.  So the moral is this… It’s not how well you start the game, it’s how well you finish.

(28-Jul-2016, 22:30)Confused Wrote: [ -> ]This was posted by Ian G after the Oxford Audio 1000 Pro launch event.  A fascinating take on power.  I have to be honest, I struggle a bit to rationalise how 'infinite power' would improve on say a much lower figure, such a 1 billion watts, but there you have it.  This was the view of one of the great minds behind the original Devialet project, food for thought.....

This was very interesting. Mathieu explained that, from the current starting point, the priorities were (a) power (b) volume control © quality. What I interpreted from this was that, given Expert’s current quality, their aim was to increase power (Mathieu said that the best power was theoretically infinite power) and then to ensure that existing optimum quality was delivered at all power (volume) levels. In terms of quantifiable measures, he said that the 1000 Pro would now deliver continuous full power for a whole minute whereas the 800 could only deliver continuous full power for two seconds. He also explained that the theoretical optimum mix (but practically unachievable) between A and D was 0% A and 100% D; but that the changes had moved them from 2%/98% to 0.5%/99.5%, improving precision by a factor of four.

So there you have it folks.....   Infinite power is what you want!

Plus, this does remind me of when I listened to a D170 with the KEF Blades, even at modest volume it did not sound good, bass definition, punch etc. was very poor.  With a D240, the Blades were singing.  On paper, the D170 should be fine, easily fine with the Blades, but it wasn't.  It's not a simple topic this one.

In theory its cute to say that "Infinite power is what you want!"  but in practice it's just not so.  The closest thing to an infinite power source (we have) is the Sun and even it has a lifespan.

What I believe is implicit in Mathieu's message is that power is important when it is infinitely linear.  This means that for a given changing load that the power supplied be sufficient to prevent starvation (distortion) throughout the period of demand.  Although the Devialet's are linear to a point they are not unbounded.  Furthermore, as far as I can tell, none of the current or previous versions have any dynamic headroom.  Given Mathieu's remarks I suspect the new Pro series will address these limitations.   

Unless your requirements (difficult load, lifeless room, loss of hearing) necessitate it, the quality of power is important not the abundance of it. The first watt should sound like the last one.  Until then, keep an eye (or perhaps your ear) on the dial.

(28-Jul-2016, 11:35)Confused Wrote: [ -> ]I would have to agree with Guillaume.  I recall talking to Mathieu Pernot shortly after the launch of the D400.  I asked which was best, the D250 (Which Mathieu knew I owned) or the D400.  I kind of expected Mathieu to be diplomatic about my lovely (and very expensive) D250, but no, his answer was direct, the D400 is better because the dual mono allows much lower distortion.

I have been running my D400 in Bi-Amp stereo mode instead of dual mono mode.  Does it mean I am not reaping the full benefit of lower distortion of the D400?

Is dual mono the "better" mode?

(29-Jul-2016, 05:35)agentsmith Wrote: [ -> ]

(28-Jul-2016, 11:35)Confused Wrote: [ -> ]I would have to agree with Guillaume.  I recall talking to Mathieu Pernot shortly after the launch of the D400.  I asked which was best, the D250 (Which Mathieu knew I owned) or the D400.  I kind of expected Mathieu to be diplomatic about my lovely (and very expensive) D250, but no, his answer was direct, the D400 is better because the dual mono allows much lower distortion.

I have been running my D400 in Bi-Amp stereo mode instead of dual mono mode.  Does it mean I am not reaping the full benefit of lower distortion of the D400?

Is dual mono the "better" mode?

yep

I am perfectly happy with my D250.
If the upgrade price was up to 1000 or 1500 eu, I would do it blindly - as I trust them to deliver. They have so far.
As it is I will only upgrade after a trial, which is fine too.

I think its a great idea for Devialet to offer the upgrade, however for me the price is too high and better spent on my speakers

Only thing I'm gutted about is that the streaming option probably wont be available to us non upgraders

(30-Jul-2016, 19:13)tyefighter Wrote: [ -> ]I think its a great idea for Devialet to offer the upgrade, however for me the price is too high and better spent on my speakers

Only thing I'm gutted about is that the streaming option probably wont be available to us non upgraders

I agree, the price is too high for me.

If anyone is interested in a mint D400, please PM me.

(31-Jul-2016, 04:09)mauidan Wrote: [ -> ]

(30-Jul-2016, 19:13)tyefighter Wrote: [ -> ]I think its a great idea for Devialet to offer the upgrade, however for me the price is too high and better spent on my speakers

Only thing I'm gutted about is that the streaming option probably wont be available to us non upgraders

I agree, the price is too high for me.

If anyone is interested in a mint D400, please PM me.

Are you not happy with your D400? Why not just keep it, there is no necessity to upgrade.

I think that goes for the audio industry in general. If you sell a lot if components. The used price goes down. The only way to keep up with that is to make minor upgrades and rebrand more regularly...