Devialet Chat

(27-Jul-2016, 09:11)moreno1973 Wrote: [ -> ]

(26-Jul-2016, 21:44)Christopher W. Wrote: [ -> ]I started with a used D-Premier and enjoyed it.  I never was much interested in Air.

Then I moved to a used 400 because of upgraditis.  I very much enjoyed the improvement is SQ. But I did miss the case and remote of the D.
So I bought a brand new 250 with the intention of moving up to an 800.  I never got the second 250...

I started to get upgraditis and was ready to leave the 250 and Devialet behind me.  But my near perfect 1.5 year old  $15,500US 250 would not bring $7,500.00US.  So I took it off the market and I will use it for a second stereo as I have now purchased new/used equipment that I am very satisfied with.

I bought a used Dartzeel CTH-8550 integrated amp for $13KUS and a used PS Audio DirectStream DSD dac for $3.5KUS.   They are both in perfect condition....as new.  That would be $26,300.00US for the Dart and PSA DD new.

$16.5US for the new combination and it actually feels like I am in a complete different league than with the 250.  Everything sounds better with the new setup.  I won't go into the SQ here but I am very, very  pleased. I am really glad to get my DAC in a separate box than the amp.  I do miss the crossover functions but I can deal with that.

Every move I made with Devialet led to substantial loss in value.  No way would I invest anymore in the Devialet line as I see them now. 

Would a D250 Pro match what I am hearing with the Dartzeel and DirectStream......I doubt it.  I certainly won't be upgrading for a streamer.  Too many options that are way cheaper.

I don't begrudge Devialet and their way......but I am not interested anymore.  One sit down with my new equipment made it very clear...

Devialet 170/200 was a good product with good price when bought with -20% discount from shop. 
All in one gear with right price.
But in category 10000 plus Euro/USD there are more interesting offers than Devialet...of course s/h offers.
Aparat from this, audiophiles loves changing gear and don't trust All in One units. So it would be easier sell famous High End amp to Another Audiophile than to sell any Devialet to Them...

I agree it will give some flexibility and options

(25-Jul-2016, 22:58)Hifi_swlon Wrote: [ -> ]The upgrade program just seems like 'business as usual' for the Devialet we know (and many seem to love).

The growing camp they've managed to disillusion will probably be less inclined.

The love camp will upgrade whatever the price - regardless of the fact not all of its ready and they don't even know what it is they're buying.

I can see a logic to the pricing, but it's not sensible or thought out. In fact, highlighting that the innards are the same and cost the same across the board sort of devalues the whole brand. It's basically saying if you get a 1000 Pro new you're basically paying shedloads for the cases.

RE: "The love camp will upgrade whatever the price - regardless of the fact not all of its ready and they don't even know what it is they're buying"

Er... not true for me. 

I will upgrade if it sounds better once I have had a chance to listen to it and discussed with a reliable dealer. As I said earlier on in this thread the D800 to Pro 1000 at £4900 looks like very good value (if the SQ hike is there) and, remarkably, is cheaper than the D-Prem Dual Mono to D800 upgrade a few years back. I've alway known what I'm buying with Devialet - you should try some of the overpriced, unreliable high end junk and deplorable service I've had to put up with over the last 20 years or so. Devialet are being true to their promise of upgradability.

Too much hate on this excellent site and not enough love! I want to hear about tips, user wisdom, great tunes, fabulous Devialet integrated systems - it all seems to be going down the usual anonymous blog oneupmanship contest......... bit depressing. 

(27-Jul-2016, 11:26)KIBM Wrote: [ -> ]Too much hate on this excellent site and not enough love! I want to hear about tips, user wisdom, great tunes, fabulous Devialet integrated systems - it all seems to be going down the usual anonymous blog oneupmanship contest......... bit depressing. 

Not entirely Kib.  The reality is we all want something for nothing.  If the upgrade price were structured differently then there would be more rejoicing.  SQ is not the issue here but pricing is.  I have no plans to upgrade my Devialet and I couldn't be happier about it!      

Now if you were to ask me about me speakers... that is an entirely different matter.  

(27-Jul-2016, 11:26)KIBM Wrote: [ -> ]Too much hate on this excellent site and not enough love! I want to hear about tips, user wisdom, great tunes, fabulous Devialet integrated systems - it all seems to be going down the usual anonymous blog oneupmanship contest......... bit depressing.

Well, no-one's stopping you contributing along those lines!

I honestly don't think its just a 'usual anonymous blog oneupmanship contest'.  

My perception is Devialet launched with some incredible tech as a small startup, and earned the respect of a very loyal fan base, and there was a really good connection between the founders and their customers.  Posts from early adopters here seem to reinforce that.  
Devialet became 'flavour of the month' and achieved greater sales, while a seemingly small murmur of discontentment was building over AIR and one or two other things.   Devialet then started focussing on over-zealous hyped PR campaigns, and putting all resources into Phantoms, to the detriment of their Expert user base and in particular its support.  All these new Expert sales were now generating more frustrations with things like AIR, while a seemingly growing brick-wall was being built between Devialet and its customers over the issues.   I guess many of these newer adopters (like myself) never saw or interacted with the original company and felt much more frustrated that their products weren't working as intended but more-so that the issues were being brushed under the carpet.  I think I likened my experience with support at the time to that of a high street shop where you might buy a vacuum cleaner.  It was truly shocking, and will be the thing I always remember about my Devialet ownership.

Very little was materialising on the Expert side, yet meanwhile Phantom users were seeing frequent software updates, but also experiencing issues on the software side.  Complaints and frustrations continued to grow about the issues and Devialet's silence and alleged broken promises.  It was obvious from the number of people joining the forum that people were clearly becoming more upset.

No doubt the company had growing pains under VC interference, but whatever the reason, they should have jumped in before this point and worked to keep their customers happy.  They didn't, and I think the frustration built to a much stronger level than perhaps they expected (assuming they were paying attention).  When you start seeing public petitions from customers just trying to get a single comment from a company about defective technology, things have gone very very wrong.

That's where we were a week or so ago anyway, and they have finally acknowledged the issues, and said there are things that could have been done better and are now allegedly doing something about it. So far the betas of the new AIR's have just been released officially, and so let's watch this space - there's no reason they shouldn't have a far more enthusiastic and happy user base if they seize this opportunity to get back on track.

That is of course just my opinion based on my experiences.  Many seem to have had a much better time of it - especially those not using AIR or those for who AIR worked properly.

My point is, I don't think the sentiment on DC deteriorated by itself, it just became the hub for an increasingly frustrated user base.  Hopefully things will change but the launch of the 'Pro' line after the Od'A and communications surrounding it and the upgrades won't have helped matters of course.  Again Devialet just need to learn to put themselves in their customers shoes, and tailor effective, clear, and consistent communication to make them feel 'loved'.  Assuming they do that, the DC forum will no doubt also return to a bit more 'love' and a lot less 'hate'.

FWIW I've never found DC (or the majority of its members) any less helpful despite the frustrations aired. It's an amazing resource for all things Devialet.

@Hifi_swlon, spot on, nail on the head!!

Gents,

Has anybody cheched upgrade cost from 200 to 440?
As you know, the cost for 200 to 220 is eur 3490 and 400 to 440 is eur 5990.
Upgrade is about keeping the chassis and changing everything else. So, basically the difference btwn 200 to 440 vs 400 to 440 is only about an additional chassis cost you should pay on top of upgrading two units. Of course, the assumption is that removed board is no value to Devialet. Some said Dev will use them for professional audio. Anyway, my dealer is checking on the cost of 200 to 440 and if the price will be around eur 7000, it may be an attractive offer to 200 owners.

(27-Jul-2016, 11:47)RebelMan Wrote: [ -> ]

(27-Jul-2016, 11:26)KIBM Wrote: [ -> ]Too much hate on this excellent site and not enough love! I want to hear about tips, user wisdom, great tunes, fabulous Devialet integrated systems - it all seems to be going down the usual anonymous blog oneupmanship contest......... bit depressing. 

Not entirely Kib.  The reality is we all want something for nothing.  If the upgrade price were structured differently then there would be more rejoicing.  SQ is not the issue here but pricing is.  I have no plans to upgrade my Devialet and I couldn't be happier about it!      

Now if you were to ask me about me speakers... that is an entirely different matter.  

No matter what price Devialet was to charge for the new PRO modells and the upgrade and how they have done it there will always be some people complaining about it.

Perhaps if it was free then there would be no complains about the price....

Another thing I was thinking about is there any other brand that has such a big forum that Devialet Chat is? I think many highend companys have a lot of problems with many things but perhaps not a comunity that all problems gets vented directly between customers to handle. I dont mean that this is bad but perhaps many othe companys gets under the radar as many problems is taken care of the dealers and the customer dont know so much about other customers problems.

(27-Jul-2016, 15:29)archer75 Wrote: [ -> ]Gents,

Has anybody cheched upgrade cost from 200 to 440?
As you know, the cost for 200 to 220 is eur 3490 and 400 to 440 is eur 5990.
Upgrade is about keeping the chassis and changing everything else. So, basically the difference btwn 200 to 440 vs 400 to 440 is only about an additional chassis cost you should pay on top of upgrading two units. Of course, the assumption is that removed board is no value to Devialet. Some said Dev will use them for professional audio. Anyway, my dealer is checking on the cost of 200 to 440 and if the price will be around eur 7000, it may be an attractive offer to 200 owners.

I think this'll cost you 3490 for the upgrade plus the price of a companion 220P. Perhaps with a small symbolic discount, but no where near €7000.

(27-Jul-2016, 15:39)octaviars Wrote: [ -> ]

(27-Jul-2016, 11:47)RebelMan Wrote: [ -> ]

(27-Jul-2016, 11:26)KIBM Wrote: [ -> ]Too much hate on this excellent site and not enough love! I want to hear about tips, user wisdom, great tunes, fabulous Devialet integrated systems - it all seems to be going down the usual anonymous blog oneupmanship contest......... bit depressing. 

Not entirely Kib.  The reality is we all want something for nothing.  If the upgrade price were structured differently then there would be more rejoicing.  SQ is not the issue here but pricing is.  I have no plans to upgrade my Devialet and I couldn't be happier about it!      

Now if you were to ask me about me speakers... that is an entirely different matter.  

No matter what price Devialet was to charge for the new PRO modells and the upgrade and how they have done it there will always be some people complaining about it.

Perhaps if it was free then there would be no complains about the price....

Another thing I was thinking about is there any other brand that has such a big forum that Devialet Chat is? I think many highend companys have a lot of problems with many things but perhaps not a comunity that all problems gets vented directly between customers to handle. I dont mean that this is bad but perhaps many othe companys gets under the radar as many problems is taken care of the dealers and the customer dont know so much about other customers problems.

Good point. I'm not aware of a Krell or Wilson site for example. One for the latter would be great for real world tips and horror stories on positioning speakers, pictures, measurements, sound treatments, DIY etc. Think Bryston have something and PS Audio have had a long running site. I doubt if many high end companies would be brave enough to engage* with the public in the way Devialet do. I've been hoping for an iPad app update from Krell for their streamer since it came out 4 or 5 years ago - great product but I'd be quicker changing tracks with an abacus!

K 
*I fully expect criticism of my definition of engage...........

(27-Jul-2016, 15:52)Antoine Wrote: [ -> ]

(27-Jul-2016, 15:29)archer75 Wrote: [ -> ]Gents,

Has anybody cheched upgrade cost from 200 to 440?
As you know, the cost for 200 to 220 is eur 3490 and 400 to 440 is eur 5990.
Upgrade is about keeping the chassis and changing everything else. So, basically the difference btwn 200 to 440 vs 400 to 440 is only about an additional chassis cost you should pay on top of upgrading two units. Of course, the assumption is that removed board is no value to Devialet. Some said Dev will use them for professional audio. Anyway, my dealer is checking on the cost of 200 to 440 and if the price will be around eur 7000, it may be an attractive offer to 200 owners.

I think this'll cost you 3490 for the upgrade plus the price of a companion 220P. Perhaps with a small symbolic discount, but no where near €7000.

You should be right if we apply normal way of Devialet thinking. However, on the other hand it is not entirely not logical what the dealer stated, as also it was Devialet who applies same upgrade cost for 120 and 200. As this is an upgrade program, they may entartain this, albeit I hv a little hope.