(07-Aug-2016, 10:53)moreno1973 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-Aug-2016, 09:52)Confused Wrote: [ -> ]One thing we did remember to do was to have a check on temperatures. My understanding is that both the D800 and Pro had been powered up for many hours, overnight I think. So after a listening session with the D800, temperatures checked as follows: A=43° D=42° S=41°. It was at this point that we noticed that DPM was on. (I think the way V10 is working is tricking people with default options etc.) This is worth mentioning because having realised the D800 listening session was with DPM, to keep things simple, we ran the Pro with DPM. Alasdair is of the view that DPM does not make much difference. I tend to agree with this but I have found some stuff at home with the Blades to sound a touch better without DPM, so in casual listening I might keep it on, but sometimes it goes off if I'm having a serious listen to something. So, my Pro observations above were with DPM on. So to temperatures on the Pro. I was perhaps expecting these to be similar or lower, with all the new cooling material, solid copper base, higher power PSU, and so on, but no! The Pro was reading A=57° D=48° S=50°. Ouch!! It has been noted a few time in the past that Devialet's can run quite hot when they are new, they then settle down after some use. So this is interesting, does the Pro run hotter, or is it simply a case of OAC's demo unit being only two weeks old. It does offer the tantalising prospect that OAC's demo Pro is not quite at it's best yet, but if it sounded that good when not at it's best, it'll be happy days when it settles down!
Analogue=57 with DPM ON? Did I understand You well?
IMO this is too hot. With DPM OFF it will be for sure more than 61 degrees...
Using 1000 with low sensitivity loudspeakers, volume -10dB and with DPM OFF will cause even 65 or more degrees...not very good...
maybe Devialet should construct 1000 100% copper chassis...?
You read this right. Class A 57° DPM on. To be clear, I read the D800 figures from the display myself. OAC's Alasdair read out the Pro numbers, I wrote them down. I agree this seams hot! Hence my comment about the amp being new. Or maybe the class A does just run hotter in the Pro? Maybe Alasdair misread the number, I misheard him, or wrote it down wrong. I don't think so though, we were both a bit surprised by the number at the time. So now we have a mission for anyone else who gets to hear a Pro, take a look at the temps! We also only checked master temps. Looking back with hindsight, I wish we had double checked the companion temps, but OK, it's out there now, if anyone gets a chance, check! Worth mentioning that it was very hot in OAC's demo room, but OK, the 800 seamed happy enough.
Thanks, Confused. Very clear conclusion indeed.
Besides the ability to hear how the note/sound was made on the instrument (it can be quite startling!), did you notice any added warmth (more Class A type sound) or better timbre/harmonics? How about improved depth of soundstage?
As you say, the interesting debate in future may be whether a 200 owner should upgrade to a 220 or add a companion to make it a 400 (all things being equal, a 440 should be better than a 400, of course). The question is whether the 220 comes close to or, possibly, exceed the 400.
(07-Aug-2016, 12:27)nicoludio Wrote: [ -> ]Thanks, Confused. Very clear conclusion indeed.
Besides the ability to hear how the note/sound was made on the instrument (it can be quite startling!), did you notice any added warmth (more Class A type sound) or better timbre/harmonics? How about improved depth of soundstage?
As you say, the interesting debate in future may be whether a 200 owner should upgrade to a 220 or add a companion to make it a 400 (all things being equal, a 440 should be better than a 400, of course). The question is whether the 220 comes close to or, possibly, exceed the 400.
Added warmth? No. Not tonally, but it depends what you mean, there was that class A 'analogue sound' if you like. But warmer? I'd have to say no.
Better timbre/harmonics? All this kind of stuff, most definitely! This is what I mean by everything sounding real, frighteningly good.
Improved depth of soundstage. I didn't notice anything, but it is possible I was too mesmerised by the above!
Reading the posts of Confused is always enjoyable. Thank you. You mentioned le800 to 1000pro was a bigger jump in SQ than le250 to le800. In this regard, maybe it is more SQ upgrade for we le200 user to upgrade our to 220PRO than to go the mono le400 way. You know paying for a companion unit then upgrade the le400 to 440PRO is too expensive. Besides, it is strange you buy something new then immediately pass the interior electronics to someone left behind the chassis for the new interior components.
(07-Aug-2016, 11:32)Confused Wrote: [ -> ] (07-Aug-2016, 10:53)moreno1973 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-Aug-2016, 09:52)Confused Wrote: [ -> ]One thing we did remember to do was to have a check on temperatures. My understanding is that both the D800 and Pro had been powered up for many hours, overnight I think. So after a listening session with the D800, temperatures checked as follows: A=43° D=42° S=41°. It was at this point that we noticed that DPM was on. (I think the way V10 is working is tricking people with default options etc.) This is worth mentioning because having realised the D800 listening session was with DPM, to keep things simple, we ran the Pro with DPM. Alasdair is of the view that DPM does not make much difference. I tend to agree with this but I have found some stuff at home with the Blades to sound a touch better without DPM, so in casual listening I might keep it on, but sometimes it goes off if I'm having a serious listen to something. So, my Pro observations above were with DPM on. So to temperatures on the Pro. I was perhaps expecting these to be similar or lower, with all the new cooling material, solid copper base, higher power PSU, and so on, but no! The Pro was reading A=57° D=48° S=50°. Ouch!! It has been noted a few time in the past that Devialet's can run quite hot when they are new, they then settle down after some use. So this is interesting, does the Pro run hotter, or is it simply a case of OAC's demo unit being only two weeks old. It does offer the tantalising prospect that OAC's demo Pro is not quite at it's best yet, but if it sounded that good when not at it's best, it'll be happy days when it settles down!
Analogue=57 with DPM ON? Did I understand You well?
IMO this is too hot. With DPM OFF it will be for sure more than 61 degrees...
Using 1000 with low sensitivity loudspeakers, volume -10dB and with DPM OFF will cause even 65 or more degrees...not very good...
maybe Devialet should construct 1000 100% copper chassis...?
You read this right. Class A 57° DPM on. To be clear, I read the D800 figures from the display myself. OAC's Alasdair read out the Pro numbers, I wrote them down. I agree this seams hot! Hence my comment about the amp being new. Or maybe the class A does just run hotter in the Pro? Maybe Alasdair misread the number, I misheard him, or wrote it down wrong. I don't think so though, we were both a bit surprised by the number at the time. So now we have a mission for anyone else who gets to hear a Pro, take a look at the temps! We also only checked master temps. Looking back with hindsight, I wish we had double checked the companion temps, but OK, it's out there now, if anyone gets a chance, check! Worth mentioning that it was very hot in OAC's demo room, but OK, the 800 seamed happy enough.
Thanks Confused - for this and the excellent summary of your big day out. Very helpful for me (800 owner). I really don't get too bothered about the Dev temperatures. As an ex. valve and Krell owner 50-60˚C is nothing - if the skin is still on your fingers after touching the chassis then it is running cool. You should try one of the older Krell KAS models - blistering. Even the FPB series, which I had for 10 years, were a bit toasty in the summer. My view is that a 1000w doesn't come quietly and as long as the Dev doesn't exceed its thermal limits (it would shutdown anyway) then don't worry. To be able to deliver that sort of power and
only reach 50-60˚C is very efficient. The trouble with information rich displays like the Dev is that you tend to read them and then audiophile paranoia sets in - we've all been there!
Thanks again for your efforts.
K
I just checked the configurator and DPM is on by default.
(08-Aug-2016, 11:20)Pim van Vliet Wrote: [ -> ]I just checked the configurator and DPM is on by default.
It is indeed, I have to keep turning it off. I need to change this in the config I think.
I must check the temperatures again now that I am running at 1kW.
Guillaume
(08-Aug-2016, 09:24)KIBM Wrote: [ -> ]As an ex. valve and Krell owner 50-60˚C is nothing - if the skin is still on your fingers after touching the chassis then it is running cool.
That really made me
Great post from Confused as usual. Sounds like another five and a half K in the coffers for Devialet
(08-Aug-2016, 11:24)GuillaumeB Wrote: [ -> ] (08-Aug-2016, 11:20)Pim van Vliet Wrote: [ -> ]I just checked the configurator and DPM is on by default.
It is indeed, I have to keep turning it off. I need to change this in the config I think.
I must check the temperatures again now that I am running at 1kW.
Guillaume
You do have to turn it off. It took me a while to find it but it's in General Settings under Power Saving. I just turned it off myself. Now all I have to do is make it home some day...
There used to be a bug (and still might be despite Devialet saying they'd fix it earlier this year) in the configurator whereby if you uploaded an existing config which had DPM off, it would get re-enabled - the previous setting was ignored and it defaulted back to on.