Devialet Chat

Yes, SAM for the Q1 was definitely NOT an improvement. Made the bass muddy and boomy and hurt the imaging. Back to non-SAM for me!

(21-Jul-2014, 01:46)flohmann Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, SAM for the Q1 was definitely NOT an improvement. Made the bass muddy and boomy and hurt the imaging. Back to non-SAM for me!

I wonder if there is a problem with the Q1 SAM mapping. It could also be that the additional energy generated by SAM is interacting with the room.

With some music I prefer to switch it off as it just gets a bit too boomy (as a result of my room resonance modes and also depending on volume!). With classical and Jazz it's perfect.

Perhaps Rackdara could share his experience on this?

Guillaume

I did have a chance to try SAM with my Cremona M speakers. I configured one of the remote buttons to switch SAM on and off for easier comparison, but soon drove myself to utter confusion by toggling SAM mid track: I simply could not hear any difference! I decided to adopt a more leisurely testing approach, and meanwhile had a crazy idea of contacting Sonus Faber (Cremona's manufacturer) for their opinion on SAM, half hoping for the reply. But I did receive one, which I'm quoting below in its entirety, because it may be of interest to many. Their reply is on the politically correct side, but while it does not completely dismiss SAM, you can clearly feel the skepticism:
"Dear Alex,
of course in theory the SAM is a great thing because it allows the amplifier to provide a signal which is tailored on the specific speaker characteristics. But this can only be done in digital domain and this also means that the signal is processed multiple times which is something that might be worrying.
Please also consider that the SAM signal provably emphasizes some frequencies (so it doesn't only work on the time domain which is a good thing in theory) slightly changing the real nature of your Cremona sound.
That said, we would like to make you notice that you are no more listening to the real Sonus faber tone and that the SAM processing can easily adjust something but can also downgrade the signal purity resulting, at the end in a “unnatural” reproduction."

At first, I found this reply somewhat disappointing: not only was it too general (which I presume was to be expected), but the statement regarding the changed nature of Sonus Faber tone was very far from reality: as I said, the difference between SAM on and off was subtle at best. But today I tested again with Jazz (before it was only with Classical). It was a track starting with prominent bass, and I immediately heard a negative SAM artifact: it created some deep bass echo (well below the tone of the instrument) with a slight delay. This delay tells me it's not a room resonance issue, but rather something in SAM's interaction with the speaker.
I think I'll be disabling SAM. But I'm also planning to share my observation with Devialet.
Any one else who tried SAM with Cremonas?

(26-Jul-2014, 18:58)AlexS Wrote: [ -> ]I did have a chance to try SAM with my Cremona M speakers. I configured one of the remote buttons to switch SAM on and off for easier comparison, but soon drove myself to utter confusion by toggling SAM mid track: I simply could not hear any difference! I decided to adopt a more leisurely testing approach, and meanwhile had a crazy idea of contacting Sonus Faber (Cremona's manufacturer) for their opinion on SAM, half hoping for the reply. But I did receive one, which I'm quoting below in its entirety, because it may be of interest to many. Their reply is on the politically correct side, but while it does not completely dismiss SAM, you can clearly feel the skepticism:
"Dear Alex,
of course in theory the SAM is a great thing because it allows the amplifier to provide a signal which is tailored on the specific speaker characteristics. But this can only be done in digital domain and this also means that the signal is processed multiple times which is something that might be worrying.
Please also consider that the SAM signal provably emphasizes some frequencies (so it doesn't only work on the time domain which is a good thing in theory) slightly changing the real nature of your Cremona sound.
That said, we would like to make you notice that you are no more listening to the real Sonus faber tone and that the SAM processing can easily adjust something but can also downgrade the signal purity resulting, at the end in a “unnatural” reproduction."

At first, I found this reply somewhat disappointing: not only was it too general (which I presume was to be expected), but the statement regarding the changed nature of Sonus Faber tone was very far from reality: as I said, the difference between SAM on and off was subtle at best. But today I tested again with Jazz (before it was only with Classical). It was a track starting with prominent bass, and I immediately heard a negative SAM artifact: it created some deep bass echo (well below the tone of the instrument) with a slight delay. This delay tells me it's not a room resonance issue, but rather something in SAM's interaction with the speaker.
I think I'll be disabling SAM. But I'm also planning to share my observation with Devialet.
Any one else who tried SAM with Cremonas?

Hi,
Can you tell us what jazz track that was?

(26-Jul-2014, 18:58)AlexS Wrote: [ -> ]Any one else who tried SAM with Cremonas?

Today I auditioned Devialet with B&W800D (nordost cables).
I preffered sound with SAM OFF because it was more airy. But during my session with Devialet 200 and B&W 805D SAM was a great solution to improve sound of 805D.
I also heard 250 + B&W802D and differences were not to big.
So, I suppose that SAM could be a better option for smaller speakers like
805D...
I have Cremona Auditor M and I am waiting for 100 votes;-)...anyone could help me with voting for these speakers?

(26-Jul-2014, 19:21)beerman Wrote: [ -> ]Can you tell us what jazz track that was?

Franz Koglmann (incidentally, a great artist), album "L'Heure Bleue", 1st track - Leopard Lady. For those wishing to experiment, I can send the FLAC.

@moreno1973, yes, I think also observed more air around the violins with SAM off, but only marginally. Yet, the difference is so subtle, I can't vouch for it. However, the "faint bass echo" effect (some octaves lower than the main bass tone) was clear and repeatable.

(27-Jul-2014, 03:24)AlexS Wrote: [ -> ]

(26-Jul-2014, 19:21)beerman Wrote: [ -> ]Can you tell us what jazz track that was?

Franz Koglmann (incidentally, a great artist), album "L'Heure Bleue", 1st track - Leopard Lady. For those wishing to experiment, I can send the FLAC.

@moreno1973, yes, I think also observed more air around the violins with SAM off, but only marginally. Yet, the difference is so subtle, I can't vouch for it. However, the "faint bass echo" effect (some octaves lower than the main bass tone) was clear and repeatable.

Hi AlexS,
I don't have this track for myself, but for experimental use, you could it send me, and to others who are interested, and we could try it. It is the first time I hear of such "artefacts", so it will be interesting.

(27-Jul-2014, 06:40)beerman Wrote: [ -> ]

(27-Jul-2014, 03:24)AlexS Wrote: [ -> ]

(26-Jul-2014, 19:21)beerman Wrote: [ -> ]Can you tell us what jazz track that was?

Franz Koglmann (incidentally, a great artist), album "L'Heure Bleue", 1st track - Leopard Lady. For those wishing to experiment, I can send the FLAC.

@moreno1973, yes, I think also observed more air around the violins with SAM off, but only marginally. Yet, the difference is so subtle, I can't vouch for it. However, the "faint bass echo" effect (some octaves lower than the main bass tone) was clear and repeatable.

Hi AlexS,
I don't have this track for myself, but for experimental use, you could it send me, and to others who are interested, and we could try it. It is the first time I hear of such "artefacts", so it will be interesting.

I am sure sharing copyright files on the forum could create problems.
Maybe we should share a link to the place where anybody interested could buy the track for themselves????

(27-Jul-2014, 16:00)f1eng Wrote: [ -> ]

(27-Jul-2014, 06:40)beerman Wrote: [ -> ]

(27-Jul-2014, 03:24)AlexS Wrote: [ -> ]

(26-Jul-2014, 19:21)beerman Wrote: [ -> ]Can you tell us what jazz track that was?

Franz Koglmann (incidentally, a great artist), album "L'Heure Bleue", 1st track - Leopard Lady. For those wishing to experiment, I can send the FLAC.

@moreno1973, yes, I think also observed more air around the violins with SAM off, but only marginally. Yet, the difference is so subtle, I can't vouch for it. However, the "faint bass echo" effect (some octaves lower than the main bass tone) was clear and repeatable.

Hi AlexS,
I don't have this track for myself, but for experimental use, you could it send me, and to others who are interested, and we could try it. It is the first time I hear of such "artefacts", so it will be interesting.

I am sure sharing copyright files on the forum could create problems.
Maybe we should share a link to the place where anybody interested could buy the track for themselves????

Much better idea. Avoiding problems.

I could not find a single web site where you can purchase this track! However, the whole album (L' Heure Bleue) is available on Amazon (both .com and .co.uk). I doubt anyone would want to buy the whole album just for experimentation purposes, but those who enjoy European jazz with elements of classical may find this record a treasure. The samples can be found here:
http://www.allmusic.com/album/l-heure-bl...0000201248
Alternatively, if you wish to send me your email address via a private message, I can use it to contact you outside of this Forum.