MacMini –> Audirvana 3.5 –> Sonarworks –> UpnP –> Golds (DOS2) = BLISS!

[struts]

Sorry, I'm at a loss. The first post in the thread mentions restarting the Phantoms to get their Mac mini to see the Phantoms, however as you've stated from within your system preferences, your iMac can already see the Phantoms.

I didn't have this issue though, I just started Audirvana, found my Music library and selected 'Living Room' from the network pane from the speaker wifi icon.

Sorry I can't be of any further help, I hope you get it resolved, the sound is impressive playing hi res files.

Thanks for responding. I’ve dropped a query on to the Audirvana support forum to see if they can advise. Thanks again.

Sorry @Pwalder, I missed this earlier.  Given what you have described I suspect a networking problem of some sort is at the root of this.

Please can you describe your network topology?  How is everything (internet feed, iMac, Phantoms) connected together?  You say the Phantoms are not appearing in the  - Network - section of the Audirvana output selection but are you able to http to your Phantoms from the iMac (just type their IP addresses in the browser address bar on the Mac) and get to their configuration screens? 

Would it be possible, just for testing, to wire both Phantoms and the iMac directly to the same switch and see if they still fail to appear in the - Network - section in Audirvana?  If not, maybe you could get all three units within line-of-sight of your wifi access point and force the Phantoms onto WiFi in the app.  Do they still not show up?

[Pwalder]

Sorry, I'm at a loss. The first post in the thread mentions restarting the Phantoms to get their Mac mini to see the Phantoms, however as you've stated from within your system preferences, your iMac can already see the Phantoms.

I didn't have this issue though, I just started Audirvana, found my Music library and selected 'Living Room' from the network pane from the speaker wifi icon.

Sorry I can't be of any further help, I hope you get it resolved, the sound is impressive playing hi res files.

Thanks for responding. I’ve dropped a query on to the Audirvana support forum to see if they can advise. Thanks again.

Sorry @Pwalder, I missed this earlier.  Given what you have described I suspect a networking problem of some sort is at the root of this.

Please can you describe your network topology?  How is everything (internet feed, iMac, Phantoms) connected together?  You say the Phantoms are not appearing in the  - Network - section of the Audirvana output selection but are you able to http to your Phantoms from the iMac (just type their IP addresses in the browser address bar on the Mac) and get to their configuration screens? 

Would it be possible, just for testing, to wire both Phantoms and the iMac directly to the same switch and see if they still fail to appear in the - Network - section in Audirvana?  If not, maybe you could get all three units within line-of-sight of your wifi access point and force the Phantoms onto WiFi in the app.  Do they still not show up?

Hi. Thanks for replying so swiftly. I’ve just entered the IP addresses of the Phantoms in Safari on the iMac as you suggested and the configuration pages came up in the browser. On each of the configuration pages under the Wi-Fi option the network name was present but the password was missing. Having now entered the password into both configuration pages I now get additional options in the network section of the Audirvana Devices dialogue box including ‘Living room’ which is the name of my Phantom. So I think your suggestions have worked. THANK YOU so much for this. 
ps.....I can’t actually do a full test at the moment because my wife is insisting on watching Ben Fogle! and the Phantoms are either side of the TV!......however I am confident you have sorted it.

[Pwalder]

Thanks for responding. I’ve dropped a query on to the Audirvana support forum to see if they can advise. Thanks again.

Sorry @Pwalder, I missed this earlier.  Given what you have described I suspect a networking problem of some sort is at the root of this.

Please can you describe your network topology?  How is everything (internet feed, iMac, Phantoms) connected together?  You say the Phantoms are not appearing in the  - Network - section of the Audirvana output selection but are you able to http to your Phantoms from the iMac (just type their IP addresses in the browser address bar on the Mac) and get to their configuration screens? 

Would it be possible, just for testing, to wire both Phantoms and the iMac directly to the same switch and see if they still fail to appear in the - Network - section in Audirvana?  If not, maybe you could get all three units within line-of-sight of your wifi access point and force the Phantoms onto WiFi in the app.  Do they still not show up?

Hi. Thanks for replying so swiftly. I’ve just entered the IP addresses of the Phantoms in Safari on the iMac as you suggested and the configuration pages came up in the browser. On each of the configuration pages under the Wi-Fi option the network name was present but the password was missing. Having now entered the password into both configuration pages I now get additional options in the network section of the Audirvana Devices dialogue box including ‘Living room’ which is the name of my Phantom. So I think your suggestions have worked. THANK YOU so much for this. 
ps.....I can’t actually do a full test at the moment because my wife is insisting on watching Ben Fogle! and the Phantoms are either side of the TV!......however I am confident you have sorted it.

Ben Fogle finished.....everything working beautifully including Audirvana remote....thanks again.

[struts]

Sorry @Pwalder, I missed this earlier.  Given what you have described I suspect a networking problem of some sort is at the root of this.

Please can you describe your network topology?  How is everything (internet feed, iMac, Phantoms) connected together?  You say the Phantoms are not appearing in the  - Network - section of the Audirvana output selection but are you able to http to your Phantoms from the iMac (just type their IP addresses in the browser address bar on the Mac) and get to their configuration screens? 

Would it be possible, just for testing, to wire both Phantoms and the iMac directly to the same switch and see if they still fail to appear in the - Network - section in Audirvana?  If not, maybe you could get all three units within line-of-sight of your wifi access point and force the Phantoms onto WiFi in the app.  Do they still not show up?

Hi. Thanks for replying so swiftly. I’ve just entered the IP addresses of the Phantoms in Safari on the iMac as you suggested and the configuration pages came up in the browser. On each of the configuration pages under the Wi-Fi option the network name was present but the password was missing. Having now entered the password into both configuration pages I now get additional options in the network section of the Audirvana Devices dialogue box including ‘Living room’ which is the name of my Phantom. So I think your suggestions have worked. THANK YOU so much for this. 
ps.....I can’t actually do a full test at the moment because my wife is insisting on watching Ben Fogle! and the Phantoms are either side of the TV!......however I am confident you have sorted it.

Ben Fogle finished.....everything working beautifully including Audirvana remote....thanks again.

Excellent!  Thanks for reporting back.

[Pwalder]

When streaming from Tidal/Qobuz Using the Audirvana Remote to Devialet Phantoms the first few bars  of music are very disjointed. Once through this phase the rest of the track plays without a hiccup. This seems to point to some sort of Network issue but I’m not sure why the majority of the track plays fine. This seems to happen whether it is a 16bit or 24 bit track that is being streamed. From experience of using Audirvana are there any options available that might eliminate the initial stuttering? I’m using a 2019 iMac running the latest version of Catalina to a pair of Devialet Phantoms running DOS 2.

[struts]

When streaming from Tidal/Qobuz Using the Audirvana Remote to Devialet Phantoms the first few bars  of music are very disjointed. Once through this phase the rest of the track plays without a hiccup. This seems to point to some sort of Network issue but I’m not sure why the majority of the track plays fine. This seems to happen whether it is a 16bit or 24 bit track that is being streamed. From experience of using Audirvana are there any options available that might eliminate the initial stuttering? I’m using a 2019 iMac running the latest version of Catalina to a pair of Devialet Phantoms running DOS 2.

Hi @Pwalder,

Nope, never had that.  Just tested from my late 2015 iMac (Catalina 10.15.2) running Audirvana 3.5.29 and regardless what I play (tested Kind of Blue 24/96 and Come Away With Me 24/192) it plays perfectly from the first note.  I am not using Audrivana Remote but I don't see why that should make any difference (can you reproduce without the Remote?).

The only setting I can see with any obvious relevance here is "Max. memory allocated for tracks pre-load" under Low level playback options, which in my case is set to 5120 MB, but as best I can recall I have never changed this.

[Pwalder]

When streaming from Tidal/Qobuz Using the Audirvana Remote to Devialet Phantoms the first few bars  of music are very disjointed. Once through this phase the rest of the track plays without a hiccup. This seems to point to some sort of Network issue but I’m not sure why the majority of the track plays fine. This seems to happen whether it is a 16bit or 24 bit track that is being streamed. From experience of using Audirvana are there any options available that might eliminate the initial stuttering? I’m using a 2019 iMac running the latest version of Catalina to a pair of Devialet Phantoms running DOS 2.

Hi @Pwalder,

Nope, never had that.  Just tested from my late 2015 iMac (Catalina 10.15.2) running Audirvana 3.5.29 and regardless what I play (tested Kind of Blue 24/96 and Come Away With Me 24/192) it plays perfectly from the first note.  I am not using Audrivana Remote but I don't see why that should make any difference (can you reproduce without the Remote?).

The only setting I can see with any obvious relevance here is "Max. memory allocated for tracks pre-load" under Low level playback options, which in my case is set to 5120 MB, but as best I can recall I have never changed this.

Thanks (again!). It stutters when playing back directly from the iMac to the Phantoms as well as the remote. I have now tried varying the Low level play back option (now set at 15Mb) and also the System optimiser  which prioritizes Audirvana but sadly this doesn't seem to have changed things. As you know due to your help I got the system working a couple of days ago and the sound quality was great. However when I came back to use it the next day I couldn't get any sound out of it at all....in fact in turned out that no apps on the iMac were generating sound  and I had to contact Apple who assisted in remaking the audio preferences files and managed to get sound back to the iMac. When I then played through Audirvana there was initially no sound. This was with the Audirvana Network setting to Wifi which is what was set when it was working. By chance I switched to a Network setting of Ethernet and hey presto I got sound out of one Phantom. This was strange as the Phantoms are not directly wired to ethernet although the now legacy (because of DOS 2) Dialogue is wired to ethernet and this is plugged into the same socket board as the Phantoms ....so I assume the signals are somehow getting through (sorry I am not very technical)?As I was only getting sound through one Phantom I  went though the http: Devialet Configuration pages to reset network name and passwords of the Phantoms but this didn't work. After multiple Phantom unplugged resets I managed to get a working pair albeit with the stuttering. So the current situation is I get the stuttering, usually at at the start but sometimes extending into the track, I am using Tidal and Qobuz free trials on Masters and Studio, Audirvana has been optimised (I think) and is using a Network Ethernet setting even though the Phantoms are not wired. When not stuttering the sound is fabulous!! Ive sought advice from the Audirvana community forum but not sure there are too many Phantom owners there.

[Pwalder]

When streaming from Tidal/Qobuz Using the Audirvana Remote to Devialet Phantoms the first few bars  of music are very disjointed. Once through this phase the rest of the track plays without a hiccup. This seems to point to some sort of Network issue but I’m not sure why the majority of the track plays fine. This seems to happen whether it is a 16bit or 24 bit track that is being streamed. From experience of using Audirvana are there any options available that might eliminate the initial stuttering? I’m using a 2019 iMac running the latest version of Catalina to a pair of Devialet Phantoms running DOS 2.

Hi @Pwalder,

Nope, never had that.  Just tested from my late 2015 iMac (Catalina 10.15.2) running Audirvana 3.5.29 and regardless what I play (tested Kind of Blue 24/96 and Come Away With Me 24/192) it plays perfectly from the first note.  I am not using Audrivana Remote but I don't see why that should make any difference (can you reproduce without the Remote?).

The only setting I can see with any obvious relevance here is "Max. memory allocated for tracks pre-load" under Low level playback options, which in my case is set to 5120 MB, but as best I can recall I have never changed this.

Thanks (again!). It stutters when playing back directly from the iMac to the Phantoms as well as the remote. I have now tried varying the Low level play back option (now set at 15Mb) and also the System optimiser  which prioritizes Audirvana but sadly this doesn't seem to have changed things. As you know due to your help I got the system working a couple of days ago and the sound quality was great. However when I came back to use it the next day I couldn't get any sound out of it at all....in fact in turned out that no apps on the iMac were generating sound  and I had to contact Apple who assisted in remaking the audio preferences files and managed to get sound back to the iMac. When I then played through Audirvana there was initially no sound. This was with the Audirvana Network setting to Wifi which is what was set when it was working. By chance I switched to a Network setting of Ethernet and hey presto I got sound out of one Phantom. This was strange as the Phantoms are not directly wired to ethernet although the now legacy (because of DOS 2) Dialogue is wired to ethernet and this is plugged into the same socket board as the Phantoms ....so I assume the signals are somehow getting through (sorry I am not very technical)?As I was only getting sound through one Phantom I  went though the http: Devialet Configuration pages to reset network name and passwords of the Phantoms but this didn't work. After multiple Phantom unplugged resets I managed to get a working pair albeit with the stuttering. So the current situation is I get the stuttering, usually at at the start but sometimes extending into the track, I am using Tidal and Qobuz free trials on Masters and Studio, Audirvana has been optimised (I think) and is using a Network Ethernet setting even though the Phantoms are not wired. When not stuttering the sound is fabulous!! Ive sought advice from the Audirvana community forum but not sure there are too many Phantom owners there.

Update: I now have a solution. I created a new dedicated network. I then restricted streams to 24 bit 96khz In Audirvana and this seems to do the trick. If tracks sampled at 192Khz are played then the skipping returns but 96 is more than adequate for 66 year old ears! Fingers crossed for some stability now.

[struts]

Hi @Pwalder,

Nope, never had that.  Just tested from my late 2015 iMac (Catalina 10.15.2) running Audirvana 3.5.29 and regardless what I play (tested Kind of Blue 24/96 and Come Away With Me 24/192) it plays perfectly from the first note.  I am not using Audrivana Remote but I don't see why that should make any difference (can you reproduce without the Remote?).

The only setting I can see with any obvious relevance here is "Max. memory allocated for tracks pre-load" under Low level playback options, which in my case is set to 5120 MB, but as best I can recall I have never changed this.

Thanks (again!). It stutters when playing back directly from the iMac to the Phantoms as well as the remote. I have now tried varying the Low level play back option (now set at 15Mb) and also the System optimiser  which prioritizes Audirvana but sadly this doesn't seem to have changed things. As you know due to your help I got the system working a couple of days ago and the sound quality was great. However when I came back to use it the next day I couldn't get any sound out of it at all....in fact in turned out that no apps on the iMac were generating sound  and I had to contact Apple who assisted in remaking the audio preferences files and managed to get sound back to the iMac. When I then played through Audirvana there was initially no sound. This was with the Audirvana Network setting to Wifi which is what was set when it was working. By chance I switched to a Network setting of Ethernet and hey presto I got sound out of one Phantom. This was strange as the Phantoms are not directly wired to ethernet although the now legacy (because of DOS 2) Dialogue is wired to ethernet and this is plugged into the same socket board as the Phantoms ....so I assume the signals are somehow getting through (sorry I am not very technical)?As I was only getting sound through one Phantom I  went though the http: Devialet Configuration pages to reset network name and passwords of the Phantoms but this didn't work. After multiple Phantom unplugged resets I managed to get a working pair albeit with the stuttering. So the current situation is I get the stuttering, usually at at the start but sometimes extending into the track, I am using Tidal and Qobuz free trials on Masters and Studio, Audirvana has been optimised (I think) and is using a Network Ethernet setting even though the Phantoms are not wired. When not stuttering the sound is fabulous!! Ive sought advice from the Audirvana community forum but not sure there are too many Phantom owners there.

Update: I now have a solution. I created a new dedicated network. I then restricted streams to 24 bit 96khz In Audirvana and this seems to do the trick. If tracks sampled at 192Khz are played then the skipping returns but 96 is more than adequate for 66 year old ears! Fingers crossed for some stability now.

"Curiouser and curiouser!" Cried struts (he was so much surprised, that for the moment he quite forgot how to speak good English).  

@Pwalder, This latest info only serves to confirm my suspicion that you have some networking issues (and maybe some issues on your iMac, maybe now solved).  If you have the appetite to dig deeper here, please describe your network in more detail and I may be able to make some suggestions.

1.  What network equipment do you have?  All-in-one modem/switch/access point?  Model/vintage?  Please describe the topology if simple or draw it if not.  Please describe how far away anything connected over wireless is from the access point and how much, if anything (e.g. walls, etc), is in the way.
2.  How is your iMac connected to your network?  Ethernet wifi? both?  If wifi, how good is the wifi signal strength seen from your Mac (do you have the tools/knowledge to measure it?)
3.  You say your Phantoms are not connected via Ethernet (correct?) but your Dialog is (correct?)
4.  How good is the wifi signal seen from your Phantoms (do you have the tools/knowledge to measure it?)
5.  How are your Phantoms connecting to your Dialog? (in the app click on the cogwheel, each speaker and then Network Interfaces)

Few things to bear in mind:
- The network settings in Audirvana refer to the host (i.e. iMac) connection to the network alone, nothing else.  Audirvana has no idea how anything else is connected.
- You can send audio to your Phantom "system" (i.e. to the Dialog if you have one, to your Left Phantom if you are on DOS 2 and no Dialog) via Ethernet, Wifi or Bluetooth.  In descending order of stability/preference
- Your Phantom "system" can communicate internally via Ethernet, Wifi and PLC. In descending order of stability/preference.
- If you can wire your Phantoms to the switch with Ethernet that is the 'safest' i.e. most robust method
- Good wifi (strong signal, generally line-of-sight and within a few meters) is second best as long as your wifi spectrum is not overcrowded (apartment building) or polluted (lots of other stuff like cordless phones, bluetooth etc on the 2.4 GHz frequency band).  2.4 GHz wifi generally has better range (and goes through walls better) whereas 5 GHz wifi is generally less crowded.  
- PLC is generally most problematic unless you can connect the whole Phantom "system" to the same power strip (which you seem to have done).

As you can see, there are lots of variables here.

[Pwalder]

Thanks for spending so much time on this. The current situation is that I have a working system as a result of creating a separate wifi network from my Virgin Media cable modem. This gives an average of >70Mb/s speed. Both my iMac and iPad (remote) are now on this network and I have also configured the Phantoms to this network and everything seems to be working with the exception of 24/192 files which still skip. Files are being streamed from Qobuz Studio and Tidal Masters trial accounts (I understand that Phantoms don't support MQA so Tidal Master files are being rendered after just one 'unfold' in Audirvana......as I understand it!). I have restricted the input from Qobuz to 24/96 to stop the skipping on native 24/192 files.

The question you asked relate to the old network which is still working ok for non Audirvana applications. Here are my attempts to answer them.

1. What network equipment do you have? All-in-one modem/switch/access point? Model/vintage? Please describe the topology if simple or draw it if not. Please describe how far away anything connected over wireless is from the access point and how much, if anything (e.g. walls, etc), is in the way.

Answer: The Virgin Media cable modem is a very recent acquistion from my ISP and I believe has up to date spec but is not a MESH modem. On the 'old' network the cable modem is linked to an Apple Extreme Time Machine which then effectively becomes the router.......Apple Support helped set me up the precise configuration of the Apple Extreme and I am afraid the details are beyond my knowledge. The Apple Extreme supples both 2.4 and 5.0 networks and I tend to use the 5.0. The Apple Extreme is also linked via a Powerline system to two Apple expresses elsewhere in the house and garage to increase coverage. One of these Apple expresses is in the same room as the Phantoms and an ethernet link goes from the Apple Express to the 'legacy' Dialogue and this is still active and in the old network was recognised by DOS 2 as being present.....plan was to use the Toslink port for my Arcam CD player. I did test this and it worked although if Qobuz/Tidal prove reliable I won't need it.
2. How is your iMac connected to your network? Ethernet wifi? both? If wifi, how good is the wifi signal strength seen from your Mac (do you have the tools/knowledge to measure it?).
Answer: .....See above.. Effectively both on the 'old' network but under the new configuration just wifi via the Virgin Media cable modem and that pathway doesn't include the Apple Extreme or Powerlines etc. Just to note the Mac and Phantoms are in different rooms. Mac upstairs and Phantom downstairs so no 'line of sight possible'.
3. You say your Phantoms are not connected via Ethernet (correct?) but your Dialog is (correct?)
Answer: Yes that is correct in both instances... (see above)....Dialogue and Phantoms are all in the same power block.
4. How good is the wifi signal seen from your Phantoms (do you have the tools/knowledge to measure it?) averages > 70Mb/s
5. How are your Phantoms connecting to your Dialog? (in the app click on the cogwheel, each speaker and then Network Interfaces)......The interface is 'Auto' in both Phantoms. Just to note that both Phantoms are running 2.8.5 but the Dialog is running 2.8.3. I have been in regular communication with Devialet support for about 3 weeks as they said they should all use 2.8.5 and they have promised an update for the Dialog but it hasn't appeared yet...I've been nagging!!

As you can see the 'old' system is pretty complicated but up to installing Audirvana it 'just worked' consistently. We are expecting to move house in the next month so I am now starting to think this is the opportunity to start with a blank slate and build up from the new wifi network. This may well mean retiring the Apple Kit which has been super reliable and for a non-techy like me the Apple Support (like your own!) has been fantastic and a very reassuring back stop.
Once again thanks for spending so much time on this and if you do have any suggestions on the best way forward I am very happy to listen.......I have learnt a lot from this exchange.