(22-Jul-2016, 12:50)Antoine Wrote: [ -> ]http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac...post564595
Quote:The V1.10 firmware update will be available for download on July 28th. No joke ;-)
Julian
Yes, I spotted that over at Computer Audiophile. I also read some comments stating that some recently supplied Mutecs were shipped with the new firmware. Mine is less than a week old, so might just have the new firmware already? How can you tell which version a Mutec is running? I did check the instruction manual, which was not much use. If no one knows, I think I will simply plug it into my PC and see what happens!
(13-Jul-2016, 17:03)Mollengijs Wrote: [ -> ]I'm reading this very interesting thread but i'm really struggling to understand the use of this device. This all is a bit too technical for me. What i understand from it is that reclocking the signal from any digital source improves the SQ. Adding more Mutecs even improves SQ even further, right?
The Mutec MC-3+ USB is a USB -> S/PDIF or AES3 converter. They employ galvanic isolation of the USB input to isolate the DAC from the noise of the USB source. They also 'agressively' re-clock the signal using a high quality clock to reduce jitter and output a high quality stream to the DAC.
The texts on the Mutec site do a better job at explaining the technologies used:
http://mutec-net.com/product_mc-3-plus-usb.php I've also linked to some reviews in this topic which explain it's function.
There indeed have been reports that stacking multiple Mutecs improve things further.
(13-Jul-2016, 17:03)Mollengijs Wrote: [ -> ]Right now I'm using a Naim NDX as renderer. So putting a Mutec MC-3+ in-between my NDX and D400 would be the way to go? I don't use USB so a Mutec MC-3+ would be sufficient? And all i need to add is a AES digital cable to connect to the D400?
It would surely improve it's output. If it's worth it can only be judged by you yourself. The Mutec MC-3+ USB is as effective as three stacked non-USB versions so it would consider the USB version even if you're not using it's USB in-/output.
And yes, all you need in addition would be a cable to connect the Mutec to the Devialet. AES/EBU is considered best for/on the Devialet by many.
(13-Jul-2016, 17:03)Mollengijs Wrote: [ -> ]I noticed that Guillaume also uses a reclocking switch in his system (Paul Pang Audio) would this beneficial in addition to a Mutec? Appreciate your expert opinions 
The "re-clocking" done in the ethernet switch is done at an entirely different level (ethernet data stream) and can't be compared to what a Mutec does. I don't even think it's real re-clocking but rather using a higher quality clock used by the digital circuits inside the switch. The Mutec is last in the chain connecting to the DAC. It can be compared to Guillaume's TotalDAC which also does re-clocking between the USB input and TotalDAC output to the DAC.
Some people have reported some improvements while doing re-clocking in the digital data streams of USB or ethernet so it could help a bit. There's even people who replace the motherboard clock with higher quality clocks (again a Paul Pang developped such a product) but this is a 'hardcore hobbyist' tweak. Personally I'm not a fan of the "home brewn" DIY level quality Paul Pang products, but that's just me. The goal of the people who employ these tweaks is to serve the DAC a signal from a computer with the lowest noise and the least jitter, many things can contribute here. Purpose built source hardware is more effective and easier, there's a lot of trial and error involved in tweaking a computer and it requires a lot of knowledge.
You can be very sure that a Mutec on it's own is way more effective than all USB/ethernet/motherboard clock tweaks combined. Though unfortunately the source in front of it still matters, so it's not impervious to any residual noise/jitter it's fed. This also explains why multiple Mutecs stacked help to improve things further.
(22-Jul-2016, 13:01)Confused Wrote: [ -> ] (22-Jul-2016, 12:50)Antoine Wrote: [ -> ]http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac...post564595
Quote:The V1.10 firmware update will be available for download on July 28th. No joke ;-)
Julian
Yes, I spotted that over at Computer Audiophile. I also read some comments stating that some recently supplied Mutecs were shipped with the new firmware. Mine is less than a week old, so might just have the new firmware already? How can you tell which version a Mutec is running? I did check the instruction manual, which was not much use. If no one knows, I think I will simply plug it into my PC and see what happens!
I'm not sure yet how to check the version but I'm assuming this can be done easiest using the USB tools that come bundled with the Windows driver (they are inside the program files directory of the Mutec driver installation IIRC) but perhaps it's also displayed in one of the device detailed properties fields in Device Manager in Windows.
I think they'll also release the Mac tools required for the update later, together with the upgrade. I'm sure they'll also include a manual.
In any case, the microRendu (DAC diagnostics) doesn't display the version used, I just checked.
(22-Jul-2016, 13:15)Antoine Wrote: [ -> ] (13-Jul-2016, 17:03)Mollengijs Wrote: [ -> ]I'm reading this very interesting thread but i'm really struggling to understand the use of this device. This all is a bit too technical for me. What i understand from it is that reclocking the signal from any digital source improves the SQ. Adding more Mutecs even improves SQ even further, right?
The Mutec MC-3+ USB is a USB -> S/PDIF or AES3 converter. They employ galvanic isolation of the USB input to isolate the DAC from the noise of the USB source. They also 'agressively' re-clock the signal using a high quality clock to reduce jitter and output a high quality stream to the DAC.
The texts on the Mutec site do a better job at explaining the technologies used: http://mutec-net.com/product_mc-3-plus-usb.php I've also linked to some reviews in this topic which explain it's function.
There indeed have been reports that stacking multiple Mutecs improve things further.
(13-Jul-2016, 17:03)Mollengijs Wrote: [ -> ]Right now I'm using a Naim NDX as renderer. So putting a Mutec MC-3+ in-between my NDX and D400 would be the way to go? I don't use USB so a Mutec MC-3+ would be sufficient? And all i need to add is a AES digital cable to connect to the D400?
It would surely improve it's output. If it's worth it can only be judged by you yourself. The Mutec MC-3+ USB is as effective as three stacked non-USB versions so it would consider the USB version even if you're not using it's USB in-/output.
And yes, all you need in addition would be a cable to connect the Mutec to the Devialet. AES/EBU is considered best for/on the Devialet by many.
(13-Jul-2016, 17:03)Mollengijs Wrote: [ -> ]I noticed that Guillaume also uses a reclocking switch in his system (Paul Pang Audio) would this beneficial in addition to a Mutec? Appreciate your expert opinions
The "re-clocking" done in the ethernet switch is done at an entirely different level (ethernet data stream) and can't be compared to what a Mutec does. I don't even think it's real re-clocking but rather using a higher quality clock used by the digital circuits inside the switch. The Mutec is last in the chain connecting to the DAC. It can be compared to Guillaume's TotalDAC which also does re-clocking between the USB input and TotalDAC output to the DAC.
Some people have reported some improvements while doing re-clocking in the digital data streams of USB or ethernet so it could help a bit. There's even people who replace the motherboard clock with higher quality clocks (again a Paul Pang developped such a product) but this is a 'hardcore hobbyist' tweak. Personally I'm not a fan of the "home brewn" DIY level quality Paul Pang products, but that's just me. The goal of the people who employ these tweaks is to serve the DAC a signal from a computer with the lowest noise and the least jitter, many things can contribute here. Purpose built source hardware is more effective and easier, there's a lot of trial and error involved in tweaking a computer and it requires a lot of knowledge.
You can be very sure that a Mutec on it's own is way more effective than all USB/ethernet/motherboard clock tweaks combined. Though unfortunately the source in front of it still matters, so it's not impervious to any residual noise/jitter it's fed. This also explains why multiple Mutecs stacked help to improve things further.
Thanks Antoine for taking the time and explaining this further to me. In order for the Mutec 3+ USB to work i have to reterminate my custom Bnc to RCA AQ Diamond cable, buy the Mutec and another AES cable. Quite an investment i'm afraid (roughly € 2k) when i won't be able to get a home trial beforehand... My dealer, who i talked to last week, also said that adding a reclocking device would help SQ but that there were some downsides as well. Delay in playback when the device has to to switch between 44 and 48k signals, was what he mentioned among them. Whats your experience? My dealer also suggested (and really sorry to stray away from main topic) that is should first pursue other options to improve my set (Stillpoints for speaker and components and better power filter). So maybe i should home-demo some of these products first. Tough choices wish i had a bigger budget
You're welcome! The Mutec has BNC/RCA/USB/Toslink and AES/EBU inputs and the same outputs, though USB is either an in- or output. So I think you could use your current cable (or even switch to a BNC-BNC cable).
There is indeed a short delay (<1s) when switching between sample rates during which the Mutec re-syncs to the data stream. Since there's usually no need for gapless playback with source files that have different sample rates this is no issue for me, I haven't even configured Roon yet which can compensate for this so you won't miss the first samples of a song.
I don't sell the device/am not affiliated to Mutec or any reseller and it's only you who can/should set your priorities. Through Thomann you can have a 30 day money back guarantee.
i have bought Mutec MC-3+ USB a month back and gotten good results since.
Although I spent a fair amount of time focusing on refining in the source for my setup, sometimes the digital harsh/ 'glare' is evident with USB playback.
i use Mutec with AES/EBU input to Devialet. With the superior AES/EBU input, the digital 'glare' is gone. The sound is liquid smooth without the loss of details. There is an significant improvement in clarity as well.
Strongly recommend for folks hitting limits with digital playback via USB. Good to get a decent AES/EBU cable though.
Hi All,
This is a great thread with tons of information, an inspiration and final hint to purchase the MC-3+ USB which arrived last Friday.
The plan is to connect the PC via USB which already works and sounds great! I'd also like to connect the Sonos via COAX.
Everyone loves the easy use of the Sonos and I'd like to to try to improve its sound a bit :-)
So far the Sonos and other sources like CD only play via Toslink, COAX stays silent, but I would prefer the latter.
I am using the BNC-Chinch adapter to connect the Sonos with a 75ohm cable to the lower connector next to the mains (S/P-DIF & AES IN).
Will this work at all?
If yes, which are the right settings on the MC-3+ ?
Surely someone is using a similar setup. Your tips are greatly appreciated.
Cheers,
Ralf
Windows only according to my customer email. Mac coming later.
I need some guidance here. I had intended to put the Mutec (when I get it) between my QNAP NAS which I believe runs some form of Linux, and my D. Is this going to work? I have a Mac on the network, will this be all I need to install the updates?
To be clear, the NAS runs Jriver and will be connected thus:
NAS>USB>Mutec>AES>Devialet