(05-Jun-2019, 07:20)K4680 Wrote: [ -> ]Hi, I totally agree with you, it's not Roon nor Devialet !! It is due to the network environments of the user, how else should it be possible that it runs in many users without problems. My suggestion to build only a minimal network with Roon and Devialet (without switch, disconnect all other devices from the network), and then test. 
I'm running a direct ethernet connection between Roon on a Nucleus+ and my Devialet which totally isolates traffic between Roon and the Devialet from traffic between Roon and the network. You can't run Roon without a network connection. This puts nothing between Roon and the Devialet apart from a single ethernet cable. It's as close to completely isolating the Devialet as I know how to get.
I think the problem is still occurring but infrequently and at a mild level, ie no actual dropouts with silence but occasional (maybe once or twice a day) fraction of a second mild drops in volume.
At a guess I'd say the problem has something to do with buffering and/or error correction of the RAAT stream and that network connections and devices in the path can exacerbate it but I think there is a issue in how the Devialet controls the buffer and streaming process and that it's a software rather than a hardware problem.
That's my take on it.
As far as I know, there is no other way to remove network devices entirely from the signal path between Roon and the Devialet as what I'm doing.
(05-Jun-2019, 07:59)David A Wrote: [ -> ]I'm running a direct ethernet connection between Roon on a Nucleus+ and my Devialet which totally isolates traffic between Roon and the Devialet from traffic between Roon and the network. You can't run Roon without a network connection. This puts nothing between Roon and the Devialet apart from a single ethernet cable. It's as close to completely isolating the Devialet as I know how to get.
I think the problem is still occurring but infrequently and at a mild level, ie no actual dropouts with silence but occasional (maybe once or twice a day) fraction of a second mild drops in volume.
At a guess I'd say the problem has something to do with buffering and/or error correction of the RAAT stream and that network connections and devices in the path can exacerbate it but I think there is a issue in how the Devialet controls the buffer and streaming process and that it's a software rather than a hardware problem.
I too am getting the
very infrequent fraction-of-a second skip and its only happened twice so far. By the way, I am now running the Nucleus-to-network via USB3-ethernet adapter after swapping out the Apple's USB2 adapter so the Nucleus to Network is now Gigabit. Am still watching !
(05-Jun-2019, 09:17)alaw Wrote: [ -> ]Well, you could use a usb connection from nucleus to Devialet, with network only for control, but why? This would be a last ditch solution, but I’d prefer them to fix the issue than have us circumvent it. Oh, and WiFi works fine, at least in my case.
My goal in trying to find a way to create a direct ethernet signal path to the Devialet was to simplify the connection path and avoid intermediary steps between server and amplifier. USB does satisfy that aim but it doesn't sound as good as a networked connection in my system. Wifi works and sounds as good as a networked ethernet connection but it makes the signal path more complex requiring ethernet from server to router and wifi from router to Devialet. What I'm doing sounds better to me than USB, a normal networked connection, and wifi and it's as simple a physical path as USB and a simpler physical path than the other 2 paths.
It's not that I'm anti USB or pro network or some other connection method. I'd be happy to swap to some other method if it sounded better and was reliable. USB doesn't sound better to me and I've had reliability problems with wifi at times in the past. Ethernet has given me the most reliable and best sounding result so far. What I'm doing is still a networked connection but it involves setting up a separate network connection on an isolated subnet (at least that's what I understand is going on, it sounds better to me than my previous ethernet connection via a switch, and it's as reliable as the previous ethernet connection.
If someone can offer me a way of getting a better resuit while still keeping as simple a system as possible, I'm willing to try it. With a Roon Nucleus I'm limited to ethernet or USB output options and that's a limitation I'm happy living with. I don't want to start adding other components like a network bridge component, I like things minimalist.
(05-Jun-2019, 07:59)David A Wrote: [ -> ] (05-Jun-2019, 07:20)K4680 Wrote: [ -> ]Hi, I totally agree with you, it's not Roon nor Devialet !! It is due to the network environments of the user, how else should it be possible that it runs in many users without problems. My suggestion to build only a minimal network with Roon and Devialet (without switch, disconnect all other devices from the network), and then test.
I'm running a direct ethernet connection between Roon on a Nucleus+ and my Devialet which totally isolates traffic between Roon and the Devialet from traffic between Roon and the network. You can't run Roon without a network connection. This puts nothing between Roon and the Devialet apart from a single ethernet cable. It's as close to completely isolating the Devialet as I know how to get.
I think the problem is still occurring but infrequently and at a mild level, ie no actual dropouts with silence but occasional (maybe once or twice a day) fraction of a second mild drops in volume.
At a guess I'd say the problem has something to do with buffering and/or error correction of the RAAT stream and that network connections and devices in the path can exacerbate it but I think there is a issue in how the Devialet controls the buffer and streaming process and that it's a software rather than a hardware problem.
That's my take on it.
As far as I know, there is no other way to remove network devices entirely from the signal path between Roon and the Devialet as what I'm doing.
Hi, my consideration was this:
Connect router to internet
LAN socket 1 on the router: Roon Rock Nucleus, etc.
LAN socket 2 on the router: Devialet
Everything else on the router remove.
How is the result?
This is just to narrow down the error !!!
I have been corresponding with Karen at Devialet over the past few weeks about this issue.
At first, Karen was giving me the re-boot solution: disconnect the Devialet from the mains, reconnect mains and run factory config and then run preferred config. With a 100Mbps connection (Gigabit didn't work from the get-go) this fix would work for a few days and then revert to the issues some of us have been describing on this thread. Thus, I've been using 5GHz WiFi, basically without issue, though I would prefer a network connection as a long-term solution.
Yesterday, Karen asked what router I was using (Google WiFi). I'd be surprised if it were a router issue but one never knows. I rather think it has something to do with the most recent firmware update in February, because as one astute OP noted, no one was having issues with Gigabit Ethernet before the update. (As for me, I've only had my Devialet Expert 220 Pro for about a month, so I started immediately with the February update.) It's probably a software issue and it's bedeviling Devialet because there is no solution in sight with a full three-plus months in the rear-view mirror.
(05-Jun-2019, 10:57)K4680 Wrote: [ -> ]Hi, my consideration was this:
Connect router to internet
LAN socket 1 on the router: Roon Rock Nucleus, etc.
LAN socket 2 on the router: Devialet
Everything else on the router remove.
How is the result?
This is just to narrow down the error !!!
My Nucleus and Devialet are in a different room to the router. There is only one cable running from the room where the router is to the room where the Nucleus and Devialet are. The closest I can come to your setup is as follows:
Ethernet port on Router to ethernet switch in room with Nucleus and Devialet;
Ethernet port on Nucleus to switch;
Ethernet port on Devialet to switch.
I ran the system like that until a couple of weeks ago when I swapped to my current setup. It worked well with only occasional problems. The only time I ran into real problems was when I used Roon's DSP engine to convert everything to 192/24 and that led to severe problems. With Roon sending everything in bit perfect mode I rarely had an issue but I have no native 92/24 content. Other resolutions rarely displayed a problem.
While the Nucleus only has 1 ethernet port it does have 2 USB3 ports which can be used for network connections if you use a USB to ethernet adapter. My current setup is as follows:
- Ethernet port on router to ethernet port on Nucleus;
- USB port on Nucleus to adapter to ethernet port on Devialet.
The Nucleus and Devialet communicate directly. All music streams directly from the Nucleus to the Devialet and no other traffic occurs over that connection. The Nucleus communicated directly with the router for internet access and for streaming from Tidal and that traffic only occurs over that connection. There is complete isolation of network traffic involving the router from traffic between the Nucleus and the Devialet.
As I've said, that works well with only occasional issues, just as the previous setup described above worked well with only occasional issues except when I used Roon's DSP engine to convert everything to 192/24.
There are other devices connected to the router either directly or indirectly. They include my computer and several components in a separate home theatre system in another room.
I don't think there's any doubt that the problem is related to the last OS/firmware update. That doesn't mean that it isn't related in some way to router choice.
Roon have an item called "Networking Best Practices" on their website (
https://kb.roonlabs.com/Networking_Best_Practices )
Towards the bottom of that page there's a section called "Router Specific Settings" which starts out with the statement "Some routers have setting which can cause interference with Roon's communication to endpoints and Remote devices". It goes on to list settings for 7 different routers and devices that can cause problems. That document lists devices and settings that Roon knows cause problems. There could be more. It was last updated on 30 May this year, 5 days ago. It also mentions other issues related to things like managed switches. ethernet over power, Windows Server 2016, and other networking things that can affect your results with Roon. It could well be that the resolution of this issue, when it eventually comes, will result in the addition of another item to that page.
Not everyone gets the problem. You had problems with a gigabit connection. I've had minimal problems with a gigabit connection unless I use Roon's DSP engine to convert everything to 192/24. Others have different experience to you and to me. Why are there differences. If we're all using Roon and we're all using Devialets, what's the difference? There has to be a difference if we're getting different results and one of the areas where there are differences is in what's between Roon and our Devialets including things like routers and network switches. Other differences could be in Roon settings (things like using the DSP engine in Roon to do things like converting everything to 192/24) or in our Devialet settings (inputs enabled/disabled, SAM, or something else). If there's a problem there has to be a cause for the problem, and if the problem affects some people but not others then there has to be something different in how those people have their systems set up and connected. Router choice may be a factor or it may not but asking about what router you're using is reasonable given the situation.
(05-Jun-2019, 13:24)David A Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think there's any doubt that the problem is related to the last OS/firmware update. That doesn't mean that it isn't related in some way to router choice.
Roon have an item called "Networking Best Practices" on their website ( https://kb.roonlabs.com/Networking_Best_Practices )
Towards the bottom of that page there's a section called "Router Specific Settings" which starts out with the statement "Some routers have setting which can cause interference with Roon's communication to endpoints and Remote devices". It goes on to list settings for 7 different routers and devices that can cause problems. That document lists devices and settings that Roon knows cause problems. There could be more. It was last updated on 30 May this year, 5 days ago. It also mentions other issues related to things like managed switches. ethernet over power, Windows Server 2016, and other networking things that can affect your results with Roon. It could well be that the resolution of this issue, when it eventually comes, will result in the addition of another item to that page.
Not everyone gets the problem. You had problems with a gigabit connection. I've had minimal problems with a gigabit connection unless I use Roon's DSP engine to convert everything to 192/24. Others have different experience to you and to me. Why are there differences. If we're all using Roon and we're all using Devialets, what's the difference? There has to be a difference if we're getting different results and one of the areas where there are differences is in what's between Roon and our Devialets including things like routers and network switches. Other differences could be in Roon settings (things like using the DSP engine in Roon to do things like converting everything to 192/24) or in our Devialet settings (inputs enabled/disabled, SAM, or something else). If there's a problem there has to be a cause for the problem, and if the problem affects some people but not others then there has to be something different in how those people have their systems set up and connected. Router choice may be a factor or it may not but asking about what router you're using is reasonable given the situation.
Hi, that was exactly my intention to analyze errors in the network. Only router, Roon and Devialet and nothing else!
I disconnected my network with two switches, one audio and one office! No problems! I hope it stays that way!
Just received this reply today from Karen at Devialet:
We know that some other clients have problems similar to 1Gbits but not 100Mbits: however, we have never managed to reproduce these problems here in our lab. This problem will be corrected eventually. In the meantime, 100Mbit usage would be a relevant and sufficient solution for audio.