(05-Nov-2014, 09:51)smokejumper Wrote: [ -> ]Alex, My meaning was not that the Devialet become a server of music, just that it should be a client capable of talking to a uPnP server on a computer. Many available streamers, bluray players and even TVs do this. You could still use eg JRiver, but you would see the Devialet as a device you could select to play on. This approach uses a well-defined interface which many devices already use, rather than the proprietary and lower level virtual soundcard approach. My fear is that if there is a bug in Windows at the root of all this white noise issue, MS might not see the weight of numbers of other users to bump it up to high priority.
Problem is that uPnP was never intended to be used in High End audio, but, as you say, in TVs and bluray - which is consumer grade. I believe that is why Devialet has tried to make a solution that has better sound quality. And uPnP requires quite a lot of processing in the player device. AIR is extremely good when it comes to sound quality. Of course that does not help very much if you get the white noise trouble, as I do in my setup. I still support Devialet's choice of trying to avoid uPnP.
Well I guess we'll never get to find out how much compromise there would be. All sorts of things affect sound quality, but it would be nice to have an alternative, which may or may not be slightly compromised, instead of sitting on the edge of our seats wondering if the white noise is suddenly going to start.
(05-Nov-2014, 10:58)smokejumper Wrote: [ -> ]...sitting on the edge of our seats wondering if the white noise is suddenly going to start.
I fully agree with you here. I could not relax when I played via AIR, my finger on the mute button waiting for the noise... I switched to USB. Back to the trusted 'slimproto' between LMS and squeezelite. Slimproto has not failed once since I started using it in 2005. I actually think I have better sound now via USB than I had with AIR. I use Voyage Linux, same as Kunter uses for his Cubox project, but the version for x86 without realtime kernel. The PC has to be placed close to the amp for a short USB cable though.
(04-Nov-2014, 09:57)Confused Wrote: [ -> ] (01-Nov-2014, 09:30)Riddo Wrote: [ -> ]I put ethernet setting to maximum 5000ms and restarted Jriver and Air, and started a new 24-96 track and miraculously it played through until the following (16-44) random song where it spat out another continuous stream of spitting music and noise.
This is an interesting post, because for me, if I set the buffer to 5000ms and try to play a 24/192 file, AIR then shuts down in about 3 seconds. Although with 24/48 or 24/96 the 5000ms buffer still works.
It seems to behave differently depending on whether I have a random playlist containing varying sample rates and bit depths or - as I tried after reading your post - a playlist of 24-192 only. I get the noise on random playlists and on the high res I get 3-4 seconds of music followed by about 12 seconds of silence... ad infinitum.
After trying lots of Jriver setting variations today, I am, for now, back with the Moon 180 or USB - no fingernail biting.
(05-Nov-2014, 16:18)Riddo Wrote: [ -> ] (04-Nov-2014, 09:57)Confused Wrote: [ -> ] (01-Nov-2014, 09:30)Riddo Wrote: [ -> ]I put ethernet setting to maximum 5000ms and restarted Jriver and Air, and started a new 24-96 track and miraculously it played through until the following (16-44) random song where it spat out another continuous stream of spitting music and noise.
This is an interesting post, because for me, if I set the buffer to 5000ms and try to play a 24/192 file, AIR then shuts down in about 3 seconds. Although with 24/48 or 24/96 the 5000ms buffer still works.
It seems to behave differently depending on whether I have a random playlist containing varying sample rates and bit depths or - as I tried after reading your post - a playlist of 24-192 only. I get the noise on random playlists and on the high res I get 3-4 seconds of music followed by about 12 seconds of silence... ad infinitum.
After trying lots of Jriver setting variations today, I am, for now, back with the Moon 180 or USB - no fingernail biting.
I had been following all these posts re white noise on AIR on Windows with a passing interest as, until very recently, I had not been using (nor needed to use) AIR, as all my listening had been via USB direct from my Wyred4sound Music Server. Anyway my W4S is now away being fitted with SSD to replaced it's existind HD, so I now needed to try AIR, or revert to my CD player! Having read all these posts, I approached the AIR route with a little apprehension. Anyway AIR 2.1.2 (haven't tried 2.1.3 yet) was downloaded to my Windows 7 PC and I am running with iTunes to my D400 via Ethernet, via my PC Router and a TP Link Ethernet switch. My AIR settings are WASAPI disabled, 24/96 and 100ms. To date I have to report that I have not yet (thankfully) experienced the dreaded white noise. I have been listening for several hours at a stretch for about a week now, as I am also trying some new digital interlink cables between Master & Companion Units - I will post more on that subject later in the appropriate Thread - and all is fine! I hope that I am not tempting fate by posting a more +ve outcome than some, in using AIR on Ethernet!
I must also say that the SQ using AIR has been fine.
David
(05-Nov-2014, 17:23)brit Wrote: [ -> ] (05-Nov-2014, 16:18)Riddo Wrote: [ -> ] (04-Nov-2014, 09:57)Confused Wrote: [ -> ] (01-Nov-2014, 09:30)Riddo Wrote: [ -> ]I put ethernet setting to maximum 5000ms and restarted Jriver and Air, and started a new 24-96 track and miraculously it played through until the following (16-44) random song where it spat out another continuous stream of spitting music and noise.
This is an interesting post, because for me, if I set the buffer to 5000ms and try to play a 24/192 file, AIR then shuts down in about 3 seconds. Although with 24/48 or 24/96 the 5000ms buffer still works.
It seems to behave differently depending on whether I have a random playlist containing varying sample rates and bit depths or - as I tried after reading your post - a playlist of 24-192 only. I get the noise on random playlists and on the high res I get 3-4 seconds of music followed by about 12 seconds of silence... ad infinitum.
After trying lots of Jriver setting variations today, I am, for now, back with the Moon 180 or USB - no fingernail biting.
I had been following all these posts re white noise on AIR on Windows with a passing interest as, until very recently, I had not been using (nor needed to use) AIR, as all my listening had been via USB direct from my Wyred4sound Music Server. Anyway my W4S is now away being fitted with SSD to replaced it's existind HD, so I now needed to try AIR, or revert to my CD player! Having read all these posts, I approached the AIR route with a little apprehension. Anyway AIR 2.1.2 (haven't tried 2.1.3 yet) was downloaded to my Windows 7 PC and I am running with iTunes to my D400 via Ethernet, via my PC Router and a TP Link Ethernet switch. My AIR settings are WASAPI disabled, 24/96 and 100ms. To date I have to report that I have not yet (thankfully) experienced the dreaded white noise. I have been listening for several hours at a stretch for about a week now, as I am also trying some new digital interlink cables between Master & Companion Units - I will post more on that subject later in the appropriate Thread - and all is fine! I hope that I am not tempting fate by posting a more +ve outcome than some, in using AIR on Ethernet!
I must also say that the SQ using AIR has been fine.
David
Hi David!
Without wishing to hijack the subject of this thread how do you find the SQ of AIR compares to the Wyred4sound server?
Guillaume
(05-Nov-2014, 17:26)GuillaumeB Wrote: [ -> ] (05-Nov-2014, 17:23)brit Wrote: [ -> ] (05-Nov-2014, 16:18)Riddo Wrote: [ -> ] (04-Nov-2014, 09:57)Confused Wrote: [ -> ] (01-Nov-2014, 09:30)Riddo Wrote: [ -> ]I put ethernet setting to maximum 5000ms and restarted Jriver and Air, and started a new 24-96 track and miraculously it played through until the following (16-44) random song where it spat out another continuous stream of spitting music and noise.
This is an interesting post, because for me, if I set the buffer to 5000ms and try to play a 24/192 file, AIR then shuts down in about 3 seconds. Although with 24/48 or 24/96 the 5000ms buffer still works.
It seems to behave differently depending on whether I have a random playlist containing varying sample rates and bit depths or - as I tried after reading your post - a playlist of 24-192 only. I get the noise on random playlists and on the high res I get 3-4 seconds of music followed by about 12 seconds of silence... ad infinitum.
After trying lots of Jriver setting variations today, I am, for now, back with the Moon 180 or USB - no fingernail biting.
I had been following all these posts re white noise on AIR on Windows with a passing interest as, until very recently, I had not been using (nor needed to use) AIR, as all my listening had been via USB direct from my Wyred4sound Music Server. Anyway my W4S is now away being fitted with SSD to replaced it's existind HD, so I now needed to try AIR, or revert to my CD player! Having read all these posts, I approached the AIR route with a little apprehension. Anyway AIR 2.1.2 (haven't tried 2.1.3 yet) was downloaded to my Windows 7 PC and I am running with iTunes to my D400 via Ethernet, via my PC Router and a TP Link Ethernet switch. My AIR settings are WASAPI disabled, 24/96 and 100ms. To date I have to report that I have not yet (thankfully) experienced the dreaded white noise. I have been listening for several hours at a stretch for about a week now, as I am also trying some new digital interlink cables between Master & Companion Units - I will post more on that subject later in the appropriate Thread - and all is fine! I hope that I am not tempting fate by posting a more +ve outcome than some, in using AIR on Ethernet!
I must also say that the SQ using AIR has been fine.
David
Hi David!
Without wishing to hijack the subject of this thread how do you find the SQ of AIR compares to the Wyred4sound server?
Guillaume
Hi Guillaume,
Haven't yet been able to carry out a direct A/B comparison as my W4S is still away being updated, but from memory (not always that reliable) SQ is comparable, but will with-hold final judgement until I can compare directly!
Comparison is also a little difficult because, as stated above, I am also trying some different digital interlinks which are making some significant differences. Will report on this at a later stage in the appropriate thread.
David
FYI: a copy of my email to Roger, after a fresh incident this morning:
"This morning, after a fresh PC start, I got white noise in about 5 mins (!) of streaming basic 16/44 material. It first manifested itself as faint music with quiet noise in the background, and then full noise several seconds later.
I restarted both Foobar2000 and AIR, and again got white noise in about the same time: 5 or so mins. So, based on this, my past experience, and that of other people, I'm arriving at this conclusion: if you get white noise within X minutes of playing, you'll will again get it within about the same time, unless you reboot the PC.
I've captured the Windows' processes. Here are the only two differences compared to the normal state:
1) Running mTorrent. But I did run before, while streaming music, without any problems.
2) Now, this one is more interesting: missing dllhost.exe (COM surrogate). You you won't see this process in the attached screen shot captured when the white noise happened. But when I rebooted my PC, and was again able to stream successfully, this process is present."
If you reading this thread, could you please post two things:
1) if you're getting the white noise issue (yes or no)
2) the model and make of your PC.
I'd like to see if there is perhaps a correlation between the make and this issue (e.g. some proprietary software on top of Windows that intereferes with WASAPI).
Mine is a HP Desktop.
I do get the white noise issue, usually only on 24/192 files. I use an HP desktop, which originally came with Windows 7 home edition, but I rebuilt it on Windows 8.1 Professional, straight from MS, so that I could connect to it via Remote Desktop. So I have nothing proprietary on top from HP, just MS Office. I use JRiver 19 in WASAPI mode on .wav files.